Taking Sides: P-Funk vs G-Funk

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All my threads today are about the same things!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 12:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Isn't G-Funk just a bunch of watered down P-Funk samples?

― spongebob, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 12:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Watered down with what?

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 12:45 (twenty-three years ago)

A cheap 40...

― spongebob, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 12:48 (twenty-three years ago)

That's watering UP!!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 12:49 (twenty-three years ago)

weed had a worse impact on hiphop than crack ever could.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 12:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I never thought "G-Funk" really meant anything beyond Warren G's last name being "checked". I mean, is sampling a loop from a track by Michael "What a Fool Believes" McDonald something that could really be called "funky"?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:10 (twenty-three years ago)

jess's words are so true!

And Alex: short answer - yes. Michael McDonald has mad love from the black community.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:12 (twenty-three years ago)

And when I say the black community I mean College Park.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:13 (twenty-three years ago)

regulate is one of the best singles ever

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought the G was for gangsta or something. Anyway, now's as good a time as any to state that P-Funk (and by that, I mean Parliament/Funkadelic post-1974) is entirely overrated.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Even Bootzilla?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh please...."Regulate" was a steaming pile of crap, and still is.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:23 (twenty-three years ago)

really alex? i didn't know there were people who didn't like it? perfect car mixtape material inbetween Steal My Sunshine, Upside Down, Star Dancer, Ooh I Like It and Oldschool Baby!

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:28 (twenty-three years ago)

gareth i think if you played alex those songs in a row his head would explode.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:30 (twenty-three years ago)

No, Gareth's right - "Regulate" is a beautiful record. i'm not even sure how to describe why it's so beautiful: something about space and loneliness and its kind-of resigned amorality, they end up at the East Side Motel but they almost ended up dead, instead some other people did maybe, and neither deaths count as 'sad' any more than the East Side Hotel counts as 'joyful', they're just these things, and I know most Gangsta rap deals with this sort of material but its the slightly rueful detachment here that makes it special. It's this hazy sad passivity instead of the usual 'yeah that's just what life's like' bragging.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Even Bootzilla?

Actually, maybe I'm the one guy on the planet who doesn't get the appeal of Bootsy Collins. I love all the old Funkadelic records, and the short time he was with James Brown, I loved the band's sound. However, his solo stuff, and the music he made with Parliament seems a lot more interesting to hear about (or just look at the record covers) than to actually hear.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:35 (twenty-three years ago)

what about dee-lite dom?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:39 (twenty-three years ago)

controversial post alert: "do you see" was better than "regulate".

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw the PFunk Allstars last year - it was 4 of the best gigs I've ever seen.

― tigerclawskank, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:46 (twenty-three years ago)

what about dee-lite dom?

That one song is pretty good, but similar to late period Parliament, it seems his major contribution is not the minimal guitar and bass parts, but just sort of being there. Maybe the Bootsy aura is more powerful than the Bootsy music.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:59 (twenty-three years ago)

You don't find that still-self-mythologizing "resigned amorality" depressing and reprehensible, Tom? Coupled with Nate Dog's ridiculously overhyped vocals and a backing track pilfered from an ex-Doobie Brother, it's pretty high on my list of "worst tracks of the 90's" (followed swiftly by "Getto Jam" by Domino, who at least had a distinctive -- if absurdly annoying -- style of delivery.)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 14:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, and Parliament's MOTHERSHIP CONNECTION and CLONES OF DR.FUNKENSTEIN (among others) are virutally *GODLIKE*. To compare the likes of Warren G et al. to them is like comparing Spam to Fillet Mignon.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

why is "resigned amorality" okay in rock but not hiphop? irony?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 14:10 (twenty-three years ago)

No I don't because I think that reaction is built into the song, it's not something the listener needs particularly to bring to it. Actually the reprehensibility bit isn't built into the song - Warren doesn't go looking for trouble, he's driving around and gets carjacked, nothing reprehensible about that (in terms of what he has done).

I prefer G-Funk, and I also prefer Public Enemy's backing tracks to James Brown. I'm not totally sure why that is in either case.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 14:17 (twenty-three years ago)

You're a damn postmodernist.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 14:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I think it's just what I've got used to - the repetitions and discontinuities of that music seem more my 'norm' than people playing a groove in real time.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

the other great thing about 'regulate' (one of the other great things, in this song great things are legion), is Warren's spot of schoolma'am-ish finger-wagging at the unfortunate bustas his mate is at that moment shooting with his Gatt...

"now they're dropping and yelling it's a tad bit late"

― adam b (adam b), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 15:30 (twenty-three years ago)

what annoyed me about the record is that Mcdonald only allowed them to use the sample if they would include his voice on it so eventually (because we'd already heard the version without by this point) we got the chorus from 'keep forgettin we're not in love anymore...' after Nate or Warren's rap and it feels totally pointless and ineffective and not relevant in any context

― blueski, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 15:45 (twenty-three years ago)

ooh no. the only version i own is the one on the album which doesn't have the vocal sample, and i'm always disappointed when it doesn't appear.

i think the contrast between what he's talking about and what they're talking about adds to the general sense of dislocation and unease.

this could also be because the time i fell in love with the song was when i was doing a terrible temp job at a lottery scratchcard factory. the song was playing all the time on the radio, but all i could really here over the noise of the machines was the michael mcdonold bit (which i hadn't heard before) seperated by something obviously melancholy and gorgeous but utterly unclear.

― adam b (adam b), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 15:57 (twenty-three years ago)

"it seems his major contribution is not the minimal guitar and bass parts"

Minimal bass parts? Bootsy? Either you're deaf or you need a new sound system.

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

In "Groove is in the Heart", what is there other than the short line that everyone knows?

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:21 (twenty-three years ago)

This is funk! It's not about complex parts. It's about repeating some impossibly catchy riff over and over again. Until everyone knows it. Bootsy not only came up with some of the greatest b-lines ever for P-Funk, he created a sticky, oleaginous, endlessly reverberating texture that's instantly recognizable... Plus he wore the greatest costumes ever. Saw him live a few years ago, he rocked the house. And the solo stuff is underrated.

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:32 (twenty-three years ago)

(ie, it's his sound that is maximal, not the number of notes he's playing)

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Sometimes I think the keyboards on P-Funk are a bit twatty, otherwise I'm all for it. 'Doctor's Office' aside, I like G-Funk too, it's a lot *tidier* than P-Funk, depends how tidy you like things to be, I suppose.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I like the song, Ben, but what I'm saying is his musical contribution to the song possibly didn't outweigh his persona. The number of notes means nothing to me either.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah well. That's just incomprehensible to me ;) The bassline is the most important thing in funk.

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

bootsy talks like that too! i interviewed him over the phone once for the wire, and he just GURGLES like some goddam cartoon character hyuk hyuk

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

whaaaat? What else IS there to Groove is in the Heart besides the bassline? The horns (uhm, also P-Funk: Maceo Parker)? Don't tell me Q-tip is the clincher for ya...

I don't see how you can be so dismissive of the bass player who pretty much single-handedly did the most to expand the musical vocabulary of the bass *ever* - bizarro approach to effects, slapping, synth-styled basslines, remarkably fluid and catchy riffs, some of the most memorable and most-bitten bass melodies... I mean, sure his personality adds a lot (and what's wrong with that?) but I don't see how he can be so readily dismissed. Especially not as "minimal" - if anything, Bootsy is a MAXIMAL bass player, who tries to squeeze as much into and out of the instrument as possible. None of his basslines are ever short and simple - they're always these long loopy strings.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Guys, I'm just talking about what he put on Groove is in the Heart, which was just that short guitar/bass line -- and not even the big fat bass either. He didn't play the horns (video says that was Maceo & co, but I haven't the liner notes).

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahem. You brought in Parliament too. But that's OK ;) I will stand down from Bootsy defense duty.

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, I think I just wrote it poorly: I just meant that his persona played as much or more a part in P-Funk and this song as did his musical stuff.

*also, that I don't really like late 70s P-Funk isn't based on Bootsy but, rather I just don't think it sounds as good as early 70s Funkadelic

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 17:01 (twenty-three years ago)

well, I'll grant you early-70s Funkadelic. There is very little that comes close to how great those records sound to me (and of course, Bootsy had nothing to do with them).

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 18 September 2002 17:05 (twenty-three years ago)

but the "Groove is in the Heart" b-line was sampled from an old Herbie Hancock record!

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 17:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I get all my info from videos, M, where he's playing that line -- but this clearly proves me to be victorious, Ben!!

*i'll go home and listen to Chocolate City tonight just to make amends

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 17:30 (twenty-three years ago)

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