Lee Perry: do I really have to buy £20 box sets for 1 work of genius on each?

Loads of the comps weigh down the great stuff with filler, you're right. The first two Trojan Box sets (The Upsetter Box Set [i.e. Africa's Blood, Double Seven & Rhythm Shower], and Open The Gate) are both mustard. I like the latter much more than I like "arkology" but then I suppose I knew a lot of the rhythms & stuff on Arkology before I heard it wheras "OTG" was mostly new & revelatory to middle-sized me.

The other answer is to go back in time. Perry's rocksteady and early reggae work is fabulous, and the early, springier stuff from the Black Ark is every bit the equal of the later, deeper, swirly stuff in my view. Apparently there's a completely definitive 6CD comp of the Bob Marley / Perry material out & about for not much money which contains the legendary "Who Colt The Game" and I can't wait to hear that.

His ska material I think is less good, althoguh still a few of my fave Perry moments: "Doctor Dick", "Roast Duck". Etc.

I kinda prefer the earlier rocksteady and early reggae period. The best Perry overview is Trojan's 'A Live Injection' 2CD set which came out last year. It's 1968-79. You might have most of the tracks though - they're all pretty standard cuts (Upsetters/Byles/Bleechers/Barker/Delgado/Marley/Cadogan etc). There's not many dub cuts

I agree re the comps - Open the Gate I've found more goodies on than Arkology.

And re you early springy bits - I have a 4.99 3cd early Marley set, and have no idea if it has 'everything' on it or not, or if I'm mssing the very stuff that would turn me on, but the SOUND of that period is just extraordinary.

Tim/anyone - Care to suggest some personal ultimate moments from the early springy and late swirly phases? I'll be your friend for ever/buy you a pint/hate you for tempting me into spending more money ...

But seriously, I'd love to hear some top 10/fantasy c90 lists if anyone has the energy.

The 6CD Marley set has all the DJ versions and instrumentals on as well. I saw it dirt cheap when it first came out, but didn't snap it up, choosing to spend my money on some complete bollocks that I've probably already sold for peanuts.

ALso from the same site, a useful guide to (some of) the very dodgy records doing the rounds: http://www.upsetter.net/scratch/disco/bogus.html

Blackboard Jungle
Super Ape
Heart of the Congos
War in a Babylon
Open the Gate
Complete Wailers 1967-72 Part II (3 CDs, all the Perry Wailers stuff you need really)

Jon, for the springy, mostly organ-driven instrumentals there is a one-disc set called "The Upsetter Collection" on Trojan which is pretty much all great. The Trojan Lps from that period (Return of Django, Scratch The Upsetter, Scratch The Upsetter Again) are all good but I really rate the two records he made for Pama (Clint Eastwood / Many Moods of the Upsetters, reissued as the blue / red Best of Lee Perry & the Upsetters Vol. 1 / 2 by Pama / Jetstar some years back).

Early days of the Ark: I would recommend that first Trojan Upsetters box set with the three separate LPs, though I'm a sucker for "Cloak & Dagger".

Among my favourite Perry material is the stuff he cut for Amalgamated / Joe Gibbs after leaving Coxsone, like "Kimble". Trojan did a good comp of this stuff called "The Reggae Train" (which contains Gibbs's grumpy response to "Peopel Funny Boy", "People Grudgeful") and Heartbeat did one called "Explosive ROck Steady". Neither is all Scratch.

[Long dull tract about Junior Byles deleted here for public health reasons]

Another

Babylon's Burning - Maxie Niney and Scratch (197?)
Enter The Dragon - Upsetters (1974)
Black IPA - Perry+Upsetters (1971?)
Too Bad Cow - Upsetters (1972?)
Nyambie Dub - Upsetters (1977)
Black Bat - Upsetters (1974)
People Funny Boy - Perry (1968)
Tighten Up - Untouchables (1968)
White Belly Rat - Perry (1976)
Jump and Rale - Bleechers (1971)
Just One Look - Hortense Ellis (1971)
Tedious - Junior Murvin (1975?)
Don't Cross The Nation - Little Roy (1971)

A couple of months ago a friend of mine said "I'm getting into reggae but I don't like dub... should I bother with Perry?". In response I made him a CD containing the following:

Roast Duck
Puss In Bag
The Upsetter
Kimble
Trust The Book (The Versatiles)
People Funny Boy
Return of the Ugly
For A Few Dollars More
Don't Cross the Nation (Little Roy)
Mid East Rock (Dillinger)
Be Thankful (Bunny CLarke)
Kentucky Skank
Double Six
Just Enough (David Isaacs)
Curley Locks (Junior Byles)
History (Carlotn Jackson)
Talk About It (Mighty Diamonds)
Party Time (Heptones)
Soul Fire
Throw Some Water In
Solomon (Junior Murvin)
Children Crying (Congos)

If I did it today it would probably contain:
Doctor Dick
Dry Acid
Drugs & Poison
Live Injection
Return of Django
Eastwood Rides Again
Goosy
Space Flight (I Roy)
Mr Brown (Wailers)
Piece Of My Heart (Mahalia Saunders)
Dreamland
Africa's Blood
The Long Way (Junior Byles)
Travelling (some unnamed female singer)
Three Blind Mice (Max Romeo)
Fever / Hay Fever (Susan Cadogan / Jah Lion)
Collie Roots
Mr Cop (Gregory Isaacs)
Mistry Babylon (Heptones? or is that solo Sibbles?)

I'm enjoying this thread but I do think that Perry gets more than his fair share of respect. Sure he's great but (as you all know, I'm not trying to claim any special knowledge) there is so much more stuff out there. The fact that some record labels feel the need to package high quality reggae as Scratch stuff because Scratch will sell in a way that other producers won't is a bit distressing.

Tim, I thought yesterday's reactions were 'that's a bit much to ask' - not 'I'll be back tomorrow with some long lists'.

The fact that several of these lists contain things I know and love already gives me the faith to go and track down some of the things I don't know - ie we are talking a similar language taste-wise.

Any of you at FAP London on Monday - a C90-sized pint is on me!

But overexposure is a funny thing. I had a fortnight in Jamaica a couple of years ago, and I spent ages looking around record shops and stalls. Marley everywhere, and a sprinkling amongst the new acts of stuff by other old-timers like Jimmy Cliff or Culture or Toots or Burning Spear - but no Lee Perry, other than unhighlighted production work with Bob, obv. No CDs available, no bootlegs, nothing at all. Is he the outside world's or rock culture's token reggae producer? This may be just a reflection of Jamaica's music business, where there is little interest in anything old - but Perry is still going!

This thread seems to have sent us all off to listen to our Perry Product. I had a listen to Voodooism, and was left pretty cold excpet for Mash Down by Roots, which is vaguely Congo-ish. On the other hand, I really enjoyed Divine Madness, which I hadn't really enjoyed much when it came out. Not that all of it's great or anything. I think the key top Perry greatness might be in the presence of good singers - some of them are well dodgy, I think. Also, a well thought -out song with a clearly defined structure helps - which is the case with a lot of the Arkology stuff.

These are just my thoughts, I haven't got The Knowledge.

Michael: I guess Debra Keese is the "some unnamed female singer" I listed then! I have the song on a (good) ragbag LP called Excaliburman on Seven Leaves, but DK& the BF aren't credited. I haven't heard the dub versh...

Congos enthusiasts should look out for "Mr Cop" by Gregory: it's a cut of the "Children Crying" rhythm with (I think) the Congos on backing vocals. No lions or moo-cows. Beware of "The Prime Of Gregory Isaacs" CD on Music Club though: although the content is genius, the quality leaves a great deal to be desired.

What does the panel think of George Faith? He reminds me of 'Faith' by George Michael. I think it must be the name.

Another Sister Disco favourite: 'Financial Crisis' by The Silvertones.

No lions or moo-cows, no comment.

Printed out for the next time I feel rich ...

I went scurrying to hear Dueteronomy, and discovered the same album has a slowed down version of the Congos 'Fisherman' that is just awesome. So that's one genuine discovery already...

where can i get more? i've already got "arkology", "voodooism", "blackboard jungle dub", the trojan box set, most of the artist albums he produced ... i'm looking for some long, trippy discomixes ... do i have all of the big ones already?

I was talking to a fellow who runs a reggae-and-soul stall on a Saturday just sown the road from me. He was expressing exasperation at the amount of this stuff coming out, says that it makes it very hard to sell, confuses the customers, turns up far too soon in HMV at a knockdown price. I sympathised, but this situation kind of suits me. Seems like a shoddy business model though.

He sold me "Flesh Of My Skin" which actually is as good as everyone says but that's another thread innit?

"Heaven, I’m in heaven
And my heart beats so that I can hardly speak"

In the early 90s there were a select few market stalls in South London (elsewhere too, I'm sure) which carried what seemed like the entire Trojan catalogue of the time for £5 a pop on CD. This no longer seems to happen, and it grieves me.

Yes, it's fair to say that it hasn't had much rotation. Might play it tonight just for a laugh. I believe the Slits are involved on a couple of tracks.

ok, quick derail for this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/shows/rpms/6music/6m_listeners6mix.rpm
(link valid until next sunday only)

which is two hours of him playing records (largely non-reggae), snuck away on bbc6 this sunday evening.

"6 Mix

The legendary and hugely influential Jamaican record producer Lee 'Scratch' Perry takes over the 6 Music controls for two hours.

Also known as the Upsetter, he introduces some of his own productions (featuring the likes of Bob Marley and the Wailers) alongside records that have influenced him, including Bob Dylan, Fats Domino, the Temptations and Wilson Pickett.

Sometimes more than a little eccentric, 'Scratch' also explains his unique approach to record production and gives his account of many of the legends that surround him."

The Upsetter Selection (A Lee Perry Jukebox) -- a Trojan compilation of Lee Perry as performer and producer, with all cuts selected by Perry himself -- seems pretty much filler-free to me. And what dynamite songs, e.g., Bob Marley & The Wailers' My Cup, Chenley Duffus' To Be A Lover, and Lee Perry's Run For Cover and Jamaican E.T., among many others.

I only know two lee perry songs, Tighten up and the one from Morvern Callar, and while I never would have imagined that reggae would ever appeal to me, I love these but this is an intimidating discography to say the least but for more twisted dark electronica like this where?

the latter song is from this

When Lee Perry is good, nothing beats him. When he's bad he's godawful.

Proposed field of study = Archaellogopsy

FYI, Perry was almost never, ever bad before 1979. That might simplify things a bit.

This might help some. I should add a section on collections too.

http://www.fastnbulbous.com/lee_scratch_perry.htm

according to Matos, three comps--Some of the Best, Open Up the Gate, and The Upsetter Collection--can be a handy substitute if you are not so into Arkology. Some of the Best--also available in this format--is top 5 favourite album of all time material for me...

(^not so much dub on Some of the Best though admittedly)

"Some of the Best, Open Up the Gate, and The Upsetter Collection"

Wouldn't getting all of those set up back more than Arkology.

Some of the Best is basically the framework that Arkology is built around. Some those tracks, their dubs, their deejay versions and then a bunch of rarities.

Open Up the Gate is my single favorite Perry collection though and there is little to no overlap with Arkology IIRC.

So, is it a good idea to actually go and see Lee Perry performing in some kind of nightclub in 2011? Or should one steer clear for fear of it RUINING EVERYTHING?

Nightclub in Reading, by the way.

Dunno, it depends on who he'll be playing to.

That nightclub used to be Jongleurs/Bar Risa, so I dunno.

If it was the After Dark (does it even exist anymore?) then yeah.

Blimey, I didn't know it was there.

What really puts me off this, and The Fall, is the horrific prospect of SUPPORT BANDS.

i think he's pretty cool live still if you have realistic expectations going in. no oldies, just him improving over digi-dub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RbG9XI9VjE

prob depends on how much the cover is. looks like his live band is now just a laptop guy :/

or his granny on bongos.

I think it's about a tenner.

I quite like the look of this video, thanks.

Might go and try to get a ticket this afternoon, from the "pop-up" shop.

A lot of LSP/Upsetters/dub comps ignore or gloss over this fine LP, which is certainly worth seeking out for one w/ anything beyond a passing interest in the dude.

http://images.music-story.com/img/album_L_400/lee-scratch-perry-roast-fish-collie-weed-corn-bread.jpg

Jah Lion is also great and overlooked.

That's mostly cuz the easiest to find versions of those records (and the equally great Jazzbo set) look cheap and sound sucky.

The version of Roast Fish on Ape-O-Logy sounds awesome though.

Which Lee Perry works best in my home gym, like to exercise to.

I agree that Roast Fish should be in everyone's collection, especially now that it is part of the Super Ape/Return of Super Ape double disc that came out in 2007.

Clip clop, cloppity cloppity cloppity cloppity hi

I'm not as huge a fan of Roast Fish, though leadoff track "Soul Fire" is one of my favorite Scratch tracks

I love the version of "party time" by the heptones that's on arkology.

Isn't the version of Arkology just a dub w/ no Heptones on it?

I always liked Kung Fu Meets The Dragon. Absolutely no filler on that baby. Also Blackboard Jungle?

this thread had me listening to classic Perry productions all day. "Who Colt the Game," Jesus Christ that is one of the best vocal takes ever captured anywhere.

the SSS comps are heavy on alternate dubs, so if you're into hearing lots of versions of familiar riddims you're in luck.

just picked up "Return of SSS", haven't listened to all of it but there's actually a lot of UNfamiliar riddims. and the ones that are familiar are altered enough to make it a worthwhile listen (ie it's not like having 5 nearly identical takes of the Police n Thieves riddim like Arkology).

Did PJ Miller go?

I was lukewarm on Kung-Fu Meets The Dragon but it's got soem good dubs of Lady Lady Lady. My true favourite is Super Ape of course - classic from beginning to end with Croaking Lizard, Dub Along and Dread Lion being particularly good. Blackboard Jungle is great, but the title cut has some hard-panning that gets quite annoying. There's another comp called Cutting Razor which is great too - Big Tongue Buster is an essential Scratch track. The 1969 The Upsetter album is really nice too - not much dub, but fantastic songs by (especially) The Silvertones.

Also that "Lost Treasures Of The Ark" might not be as diverse and pleasant as Arkology, but some of the tracks and production - raw and funky as fuck! Garden Of Life - play that one loud and then buy new speakers.

so "Build the Ark" is out of print now? used copy "selling" for $130 on Amazon lol.

Yeah I think both it and Open The Gate are out of print now.

I have to imagine Trojan will do some sort of repackaging soon enough though. Although they'll probably make it just annoyingly different enough that you'll still need the originals.

My true favourite is Super Ape of course

No love for "Cloak and Dagger"? One of my favourites. Time for a Lee Perry album poll? No no no, don't do it, I was joking!

so "Build the Ark" is out of print now? used copy "selling" for $130 on Amazon lol.

I bought this as a birthday present for a friend of mine, years ago, it was going cheap I think, I hope he appreciates it!

Cloak and Dagger - that's on Blackboard Jungle, right? I love it but that's the one with the hard panning IIRC

This album from only a year or two back is 100% worth getting BTW:

http://www.ebreggae.com/reggae-images/front/CD/119178/Dubblestandart-Lee-Perry-Ari-Up-Return-From-Planet-Dub.jpg

By hard panning, you mean all of the track in one channel and the occasional maraca or guiro in the other? That's "Blackboard Jungle". "Cloak and Dagger" isn't like that... uh, but I don't know what you mean by it being 'on "Blackboard Jungle"', tbh.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Um, I think I'm just getting my compilations mixed up.

Yeah, that stereo separation thing is weird (and pointless AND annoying), whoever thought that was a good idea? Not even Lee Perry was that insane surely!

SOunds like they've used a multitrack as a master (and lost two other tracks, I reckon)

"uh, but I don't know what you mean by it being 'on "Blackboard Jungle"', tbh."

It's on Scratch Attack, the cheap Clocktower comp with Blackboard Jungle, and also on Dub Triptych w/ BJ and Revolution Dub.

Yeah, I've got that Dub Triptych thing, everyone in the world should own a copy of that

http://www.upsetter.net/scratch/disco/albums/blackboard_jungle.htm

although i'm sure i had something called Blackboard Jungle with Cloak & Dagger on it, or vice versa... hmmm

http://www.upsetter.net/scratch/disco/compilations/scratch_attack.htm

I always thought the entire "Blackboard Jungle" album was deliberately mixed by King Tubby as two seperate mono mixes. I think it's fantastic and - yes - being stoned while listening helps (the memories...).

down with both Return from Planet Dub and Dub Triptych (a reggae album I bought at Best Buy! In Battle Creek! For like $10!)

No, I didn't go, Mark. In fact I thought it was still a couple of weeks off.

Does that mean The Fall is tonight? I will check it out. All hypothetical though.

I dreamt last night that I came across 2 new awesome Black Ark comps plus a YouTube of a music video/performance he did for this killer track from one of them (I can still kinda hear it in my head, it's like every awesome Black Ark song synthesized into one). He was singing over a recorded backing track while 2 women prepared jerk chicken behind him over an oil drum (one of the women dumped a whole container of seasoning on the chicken, but I figured eh they must know what they're doing). I eagerly ordered both the comps online. But guess they'll never arrive huh :(((((

I wouldn't put it past him.

On a semi-related note. Ordering from Pressure Sounds is a real pleasure and they have the nicest customer support, sturdy packaging and bonus freebies thrown in. If anybody is wondering, those recent Scratch comps they put our are terrific and while not 'essential', they're definitely packed with raw, rare and vibes-laden dub tunes.

Tell more about bonus freebies.

Kind of surprised I missed any mention of this record around the site. I came across it reading a technical article about how they made the recording. It was setup where Lee had a mixing and effects setup like the Black Arc in a modern studio, which sounded pretty interesting on it's own.

I really liked this record, it's a bit of a remix project with new instrumentation.

https://subatomic.bandcamp.com/album/super-ape-returns-to-conquer

https://subatomic.bandcamp.com/album/super-ape-returns-to-conquer

https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a2551724940_10.jpg