is "grown-up" bad? if so why...

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JoB pointed out that soul (compared to garage) is considered grown-up. I am a grown-up — sort of — and prefer company of same, yet this is not a characteristic I seek in music especially.

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 19 September 2002 11:01 (twenty-three years ago)

This maybe explains my disinterest in Coltrane compared to other avant-jazzers, but I only just thought of that.

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 19 September 2002 11:02 (twenty-three years ago)

It's good when it involves an accumulation of perspective (aka 'wisdom'), bad when it involves an exclusion of the 'juvenile'.

It's also often bad when applied to styles of music - soul is more 'grown-up' because more 'grown-ups' listen to it, fine, but making soul records because of this is no more 'grown-up' than being 18 and wearing a tweed jacket.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 19 September 2002 11:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm finding that songs with more characteristically juvenile (or really, adolescent) lyrical content are getting harder for me to listen to.

(I have to say though that I loved soul from the age of about 5 through about 12, mostly stopped listening to it at that point, and then picked it up again, to some extent, in college or a bit after.)

I feel that I have something more to say about this, but all I can come up with are boring responses. Anyway, I have to go fulfill adult responsibilities by shaving and getting ready to go to work. I can't believe that this is all./I'm not happy! I'm not free! (Actually I have beeb pretty happy lately.)

― DeRayMi, Thursday, 19 September 2002 11:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Soul is also considered more grown-up because the perspective used is often an adult one - i.e. a weight of previous relationships is often assumed, both 'players' in a love song are often taken to be pretty canny in the romance game. (This isn't the same as 'wisdom' obv)

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 19 September 2002 11:15 (twenty-three years ago)

''I am a grown-up — sort of''

no you're v.v.old remember :-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 19 September 2002 12:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Soul is so adult...like "Oogum Ooogum Boogum" and "The Name Game". Just kidding, but while soul may be considered more grown-up, it isn't always lu-u-u-rve balladry, and even when it is it's not always solemn. But even "The Backstabbers" or "Me & Mrs. Jones" - the kind of Adult(ery) Soul that I think shape the perspective Tom describes - don't strike me as Grownup in the same way that say Fleetwood Mac or Steely Dan strike me as Grownup.

But this is pretty subjective - as Fleetwood Mac & Steely Dan are groops that I remember actual Grownups listening to when I was an actual child. In fact, I think the music that I immediately associate with the idea of "Grownup" in a pejorative sense is baby boomer "Ice Storm" shit from the early seventies - when the hippies started turning 30 and not trusting themselves - very self-consciously Adult folky-rock mostly. "tasteful" stuff like jackson "nico" browne, james taylor, carole king, randy newman, eagles, john prine, the mac, van-the-man etc. I actually like a lot of this stuff, but it has a whiff of new parents who haven't quit smoking dope yet that makes me a little queasy.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 September 2002 12:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I had a tutor in college (for Michael Daddino's benefit, it was Andre Barberra) who theorized on his rapidly decreasing desire to listen to John Coltrane's music as a sign of aging and increased maturity, a tendancy to save the intense intellectual and emotional investment Coltrane's music requires for REAL FAMILY EMERGENCIES.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 19 September 2002 12:52 (twenty-three years ago)

i am saving all mine for ilXoR!!

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 19 September 2002 12:55 (twenty-three years ago)

QED.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 19 September 2002 13:05 (twenty-three years ago)

and the "Grownup" stuff today follows the same oprahspeak confessional trajectory as c.king et al, the same acoustifunky bongos and backup vocals. nu-soul definitely fits: macy gray, jill scott, alicia keys... and post-"you oughta know" alanis. emo seems to be trying to find a fugazified version of the same ideas.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 September 2002 13:10 (twenty-three years ago)

i have a real knack for shutting down threads these days...

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 September 2002 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

the word "fugazified" is only slightly less scary than ronan's epochal "parents fan fiction"

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 19 September 2002 22:17 (twenty-three years ago)

heh sorry... anyway i thought it was a good question so sorry if i sidelined it

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 September 2002 22:19 (twenty-three years ago)

"this is no more 'grown-up' than being 18 and wearing a tweed jacket"

Fuck off, old fart. My jacket rulz, and it has a really mature Johnny Cash pin to boot.

"...Steely Dan strike me as Grownup"

They strike me as really childish old men (a plus in my book.)

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 19 September 2002 23:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm going to keep saying that I liked Steely Dan songs when I was a kid, until someone pats me on the head and sends me to bed.

― DeRayMi, Friday, 20 September 2002 02:18 (twenty-three years ago)

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