best beats ever

"think" is another drum&bass break with a little hiccup of james brown going either "yr bad, sister!" or "yr bad, hank!"...but unless yr listening closely it just sounds like a percussion tic.

interesting to listen to 'the humpty dance awards' on the 'body hat syndrome' LP - this track had a big influence on r&b and hip-hop cuts for several years.

p.s. "i just wanted to say regardless of who wins, thanks to all the nominees who got involved, it really made us proud! and i hope you all stay down with the funk-o-rilla-hip-hop-a-hella-psychedelic-relic-thrilla they call... dope-a-delic or better known as the d-flow humpty funk!!

(what break was that?)

Why? Cos it's ABBA, or cos it's not a great beat? It *is* a great beat, y'know...

I was thinking about asking a question along these lines. On the "Deadringer" vs "Private Press" thread, I made the observation that beats didn't really interest me that much, to which I got the response "that's like a Sonic Youth fan saying he's not interested in guitars" (haha ALSO true in my case!!).

So when you say X has better beats than Y, wot the f**k do you really mean? I have difficulty believing we're just talking about the drum "sound" here - surely (Shirley) that's down to what's aesthetically pleasing to you? And it can't be the rhythm, since most 'beats' don't stray much outside 4/4.

So, what criteria do you use to say one 'beat' is better than another?

ron, i know what you mean about the sudden pitchdown on amen brother. i think this may be, because the version that is easy to get hold of (ie the one we've all got!) is on the Ultimate Breaks and Beats compilation, i believe it has been slightly remixed on there

the break that is used in Krome & Time ~ Sound is for the Underground would be my nomination. does anyone know where this originated?

is no-one gonna mention 'funky drummer' or 'apache' - both used more than 'amen'

"Sound is for the Underground" is this a vocal sample or a beat?

The bit where the drums come in on Stairway, just a split second behoind themselves it seems to me, is extraordainry.

Is no one going to mention Funky Drummer?

Is no one going to mention Funky Drummer? - jon

i would but you both just did.

Anyway, this doesn't tell me what processes people are using to decide X has better beats than Y.

ashley's roachclip (soul searchers): who can name more songs that this was in? i can only think of 'paid in full' right now, but there were a shitload. well, more of the song was used also in ll cool j's 'jack the ripper', but it turned up a lot in club tracks too.

Also, I think when a lot of people talk about the beat for a hip-hop tune or 'making beats', they're including most of the instrumental track in their definition, bassline and all, yes no?

Anyway, one of my favorite beats in recent years is the dn'b section in Saul William's 'Penny for a Thought', that is one tight motherfuckin' beat.

My Entry: "T.R.O.Y." - Pete Rock

(Thievery Corp once described (early) Dillinja's beats to me as 'weak' - you may now chortle peeps...)

as to criteria, it's gonna be mainly subjective. three that i have mentioned so far i'd pull into another category: top billin, paul revere and PSK. these are special to me because they are drum machine/ sampler creations with classic status.

plug tunin' (de la soul): the bassline makes this track, but the dope ass manzell drums aren't hurtin either.

so whatcha sayin (epmd): this was in 'jackin for beats' right? maybe we should see a list of what all was in that song.

liquid swords (gza): i don't know as much as i should about wu-tang but i pick this as my favorite rza beat. it's mainly a loop, but it's a really great one! and he's got some extra drums and bass tones.

flava in ya ear rmx (craig mack): i don't know about puffy sometimes , (oops p-diddy) but i've got to give it up for this track. easy mo bee also involved, another beat of his i like a lot is the remix of player's anthem by junior m.a.f.i.a. (rub your titties if you love big pop!)

Favourites:

De La Soul - Eye Know (nothing that amazing about the beat itself I guess, but in context the way it drops so gorgeously within the melody is amazingly, a trick that Kelis/Neptunes captured perfectly on "Roller Rink")

Dillinja - Angels Fell (MINDFUCK!!!)

Roni Size - New Forms (Remix) (MINDFUCK!!! Part 2)

Omni Trio - Thru The Vibe (MINDFUCK!!! Part 3)

Mobb Deep - Animal Instincts (so voluptuous and heavy with emotion - a bit similar to "T.R.O.Y." in that way)

Wu-Tang Clan - Rules (coming to Wu-Tang late I never found the dry asceticism of their early beats particularly compelling; this, however is absolutely stonking, and in terms of "straightforward" looped breaks in hip hop I think Iron Flag is one of the strongest albums in recent memory)

The Chemical Brothers - Block Rockin' Beats (perfection of a formula)

Bubba Sparxxx - Twerk A Little (perhaps Timbaland's finest moment; certainly his most forceful, though the second half of Jay-Z's "Come & Get Me" comes close)

Nelly - Hot In Herre (this may only be temporary enthusiasm but I have a blog entry half-written about how The Neptunes' understated rhythm here is perhaps their best thing ever)

Cannibal Ox - Raspberry Fields (the opposite: arrogant look-at-me fuck-up beats)

UK Garage: almost too many to mention; certainly I think it's under-recognised how garage turned beat-crafting into a "science" beyond jungle, DJ Shadow, Timbaland et. al. in that it constantly assimilates *all* purposes of beat-making (the aesthetic value, the dancefloor-worthiness, the "shock" value) - in some ways "Twerk A Little" is Timbaland's best moment precisely because it his most garage-like moment. Some random nominations though:
David Howard - U & I
Zed Bias - Ring The Alarm
Artful Dodger - Woman Trouble (Wideboys Mix)
Kavana - Will You Wait For Me (Shanks & Bigfoot Remix)
London Dodgers - Down Down Biznizz

could you run that by me one more time? ;-)

surely that's enough? humph.

here's a good question RON: when it comes to "beats" are we just talking about the rhythm here (bass & drums)? or does tim's "the way it meshes with the melody, etc." come into play? typically when i think of "beat making" from a hiphop sense (which i think is a different science from what timbo or the bomb squad or uk garage or even house/dance in general wherein their more concerned with creating an entire song rather than a killer loop to be rapped over), i think of the beat and also the other loop(s) that interact with it (cheesy blax flutes, piano, whatevah...was the rza the last hurrah of "beat making" in the hiphop mainstream?) i was just listening to pharoahe and shabaam sahdeeq's "wwIII" and the beat is just a 4/4 break but what makes it GREAT is the horn sample interacting.

ok, then what about the breakbeats and the funk songs and the rock songs and all that... i'm happy to call them BEATS if they have established themselves as such, basically meaning that they are used as samples regularly, or are on par with the ones that have (there still must be songs that have yet to be uncovered). so, it's fine to say that you really like the beat of 'dancing queen' but it's not really what i was trying to get at in this thread. the breakbeats should probably be discussed elsewhere, for that matter. i think there was at least one thread on that stuff before - i know i have talked about some of these breaks on ilm before.

for me a BEAT is everything, not just the drums - the whole track. if it was to contend for BEST EVAH, it would be of the sort that when you heard it, you wanted to start freestyling immediately. (my hip hop bias on this in full bloom). the instrumental of the song would be just as valuable as the regular mix - i.e. this is a beat which will outlive it's current incarnation - it will become classic, etc. (not sure exactly how to put it) - so that it could become part of something like the 'hiphop 101' routines. it turns out the party. it is played in the background while the radio dj's are talking.

there are still tons of beats i'd love to mention!!

i first heard herbie hancock's 'thrust' LP when the producer of this song (Vitamin D) was needle rocking it at a show years ago. this was the start of a long love affair with the song "butterfly" but i could never really figure on how to sample it! it's really slow, for one. so anyways, vitamin finally made a beat with butterfly, he did it by using lots of small chops, so it's kind of disjointed (in a good way) - it's interesting at the end of the song, when the samples play out for a while without the drum track - you can hear where all the rhythms going on in the herbie song are happening in crazy patterns due to how they've been rearranged. all that is covered up by the drums while the whole thing's playing.

i can upload this if anyone wants to hear it, if my recording programs aren't spazzing out, that is...

the best rza beat is one of the following: gold, glaciers of ice

had a meeting of the minds with a buddy: shook ones pt.2 (mobb deep) microphone fiend, my melody (eric b/rakim)

o-zone (o.c.): i love descending lines of music

Commodores--"Assembly Line"
Mantronix--"Fresh is the Word"
Skull Snaps--"New Day"
Melvin Bliss--"Synthetic Substitution"
Honey Drippers--"Impeach the President"
Tom Scott--"Sneakin' in the Back"
Grover Washington Jr.--"Hydra"
Average White Band--"Pick Up the Pieces"
Joe Tex--"Papa Was Too"
Funk Inc.--"Kool is Back"
Rufus Thomas--"Do the Funky Penguin"
Banbarra--"Shack Up"
Harlem Underground Band--"Smoking Cheeba Cheeba"
Eugene McDaniels--"Jagger the Dagger"
Bernard Purdie--all beats on Master Drummer series
Liquid Liquid--"Cavern"
Idris Muhammed--most beats he's done
Jimmy Castor--"It's Just Begun"
Lowell Fulsom--"Tramp"
Lee Dorsey--"Get Out of My Life, Woman"
Fatback Band--"Put Your Love(In My Tender Care)"
Incredible Bongo Band--"Apache"
The JB's--"The Grunt", "Pass the Peas"
Michael Jackson--"Billie Jean" (not just the drums)
Heath Brothers--"Smiling Billie Suite Part 2" (not just the drums, either)
Meters--anything on self-titled album
Marlena Shaw--"California Soul"
Soul Searchers--"Ashley's Roachclip"
Kool and the Gang--"Give it Up", "N.T."
Lafayette Afro Rock Band--"Hihache"

I recommend checking out this Sample FAQ to anyone interested in beats.

Lowell Fulson (not Fulsom) is good...Otis Redding's version of "Tramp" is great of course, that would be Al Jackson Jr. Howard Grimes, Al Jackson's successor, is also very good, one or the other played on the Al Green classics. They play a little straighter, very dry snare sound, and with Al Jackson the secret is all the lope and the straightness of it, until the patented turnaround, and then it slows down, sorta behind the beat. That's Memphis style and it's hard to do.

There are millions of them, someone mentioned Zapp...Ohio Players...the Counts...for that matter, Tony Thompson, Chic's drummer, is great, as was Bernard Edwards. Benny Benjamin and Jamerson at Motown. These are the guys who deserve all the credit and hip-hop has done a lot to bring their stuff to a wider audience. Won't be any drummers like that any more.

I've been thinking about this one:
http://www.pearldrum.com/m610snt.jpg

or this one:
http://www.pearldrum.com/m410snt.jpg

My friend can get amazing deals so cost is too much of an issue.

who else can play like a drum machine except ?uestion (now oops can, of course)

HELP!!

Anyway, for a beat alone, Goldie's "Inner City Life" beats everything else.