The lost late eighties college rock interzone

Yeah, a mouthful, but prompted by this:

--

CVB is more of a sleeper because 1986-1988 is just more of a lost time than 1979.

― timellison, Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:05 AM (42 minutes ago)

that's very easy to argue against but has bit of a feel of truth to it

― some dude, Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:18 AM (30 minutes ago)

do you mean for college rock, tim?

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:25 AM (22 minutes ago)

Yeah, definitely. Camper was really of their time and fit in with everything from late-'80s R.E.M. to the weird records that were coming out on SST and other indie labels at the time. College rock changed A LOT in the early '90s and the whole tenor of that time was lost. I don't see that it's come back at all.

― timellison, Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:29 AM (18 minutes ago)

Every once in a while I see a band come along that revises/revitalizes that 86-88 hinterland of sound (usually in the more psych areas of college rock like Dream Syndicate and what have you), but it's largely ignored while latin freestyle and heavily-produced pop and dancefloor electro from that era have been explored at length in recent years.

― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:34 AM (13 minutes ago)

I think you're right about that interzone.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:38 AM (9 minutes ago)

--

My quick thoughts here, allowing for some dude's partial caveat, are twofold:

1) The obvious one: the pre-eminence of college radio stations as a place where certain things could be heard -- there and nowhere else -- has been demolished (the Net, most obviously, but also TV/commercial/movie licensing). Those bands that are more catchy, for lack of a better term, that might work in this field have alternate ways to exposure if not necessarily success, however that is measured these days anyway, therefore there's less of a hothouse space for that kind of revival to thrive in a self-identified sphere.

2) The harder-to-spell out one: why no new elaborations on the sound even as a revival aspect, per Johnny Fever's take? Perhaps because that sound probably -- probably -- was something that grew specifically out of that hothouse space. "What's theoretically catchy but is still not commercial? What record labels would be interested in these potential hybrids? Not the majors so it's indie, but who's going to play us?" So it's a slumgullion of a sound and while hybridizations always occur without any regard for what people want/expect/demand, it's like there's no overriding perceived *need* for it anymore, it's just an option, not the option. But this is just hazarding a guess.

Bands now that kinda/sorta make me think of what's being discussed here might include Dengue Fever and the War on Drugs, maybe, but I don't automatically associate them with any kind of extrapolation from that time. Other contexts, reference points and mental expectations appear to exist.

Yer thoughts?

probably some crossover here: College Rock Goes Pop
kinda feel like the last real estate record made me think late 80s college rock.

something else to keep in mind: Billboard didn't create the Modern Rock chart until September 1988, so there are probably some songs from the years leading up to that that would have some kind of lasting Billboard documentation of their popularity that don't the way comparable songs afterward did

kinda mangled the syntax of that sentence but you get my drift

Good point! Chris Molanphy to thread as well, then!

Jangle bands just aren't cool anymore. One reason may be that REM stuck around too long and became staggeringly uncool. I remember giving my indie rock loving teenage cousin a copy of Murmur and she looked at me like I was handing her a booger.

Is Animal Collective the Camper Van Beethoven of the 21st century?

ho boy let's walk that one back before it gets anywhere

The Outfield's "Your Love" sounds like the kind of song that would've been massive on a "modern rock" chart had it existed in '86

yeah but it was also massive on the existing rock chart and the pop charts. it was just a big song period.

Before Modern Rock charts, they had a lot of "Dance" charts where stuff like New Order and The Smiths would show up.

There was a counter-cultural vibe to late-'80s indie that got lost at some point in the early '90s, I think. It was really widespread and had a sort of seriousness to it.

these guys remind me of...something. they even named themselves after their favorite year (not really). but yeah you wouldn't hear them on college radio, you'd hear them on gossip girl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JA1zZbvbZQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydYHaLx4pWs

Hmm does Eleventh Dream Day fit this?

IMHO this is the quintessential 80s video: Rhythm Corps: Common Ground.

The song aged well, but the video, not so much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Dt75MVtqw&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL824FAE1B8735B90B

Wait, that's not it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Dt75MVtqw

Even though they ended up being part of the alt rock boom, toad the wet sprocket and gin blossoms felt more a part if the interzone than the post nirvana world

I'm thinking stuff like That Petrol Emotion and Screaming Blue Messiahs woulda worked too

xp yeah, both of those bands were more like an outgrowth of REM's out of time/automatic multiplatinum era, kinda?
the new ylt bio covers a lot of this territory.

This interzone sounds like it culminated in Hootie and the Blowfish. They even covered a song by The Reivers, which was quite cool of them.

For what it's worth, the Vivian Girls covered a song by Green On Red.

Toad started in '86 and their debut was out in '89.

1987-1988 was a weird time cuz all my fave bands were putting out albums i didn't like and i would get desperate and buy,like, a gut bank or caterwaul album and get even sadder. just had to listen to kurious oranj over and over again. (was not a fan of blue bell knoll or technique at the time. i came around years later) i actually went and saw a that petrol emotion/spirit of the beehive show! *shudder*

spirit of eden was another saving grace. just played that 400 times in a row when i wanted 80's majik. otherwise, i just listened to rap and metal and old stuff.

ha one of the first CDs i ever won off the radio was that petrol emotion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHl4LZWhklA

what about hunters and collectors? i liked them a lot too. they were all indignant about water and whatnot. i liked that in 8th gr.

pardon the plug but since i just wrote something today that touches on some of this stuff i may as well link it: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/06/alternative_rock_pop_crossover.php

I remember thinking that one James song that was a hit sounded more late 80s even at the time

i remember liking this song a lot hahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7SxeHvNFek&feature=relmfu

Jangle bands just aren't cool anymore

I think it's come back around, tylerw otm that Real Estate are working this sound right now

GUT FEEEEEELAAAANG

i'm not sure this is what you guys are talking about though
it's way more irritating

For me the center of discourse of this interzone was OPtion Magazine.

but there is a reason why latin freestyle and dance pop from back then is still being written about. it ruled! dee-lite single alone kinda blew away almost any alt rock/college rock of the time that i can think of. and that's just them. there was loads more where that came from. if i named my fave singles of 1989 or 1990 i doubt any goth hairdos or jinglejangle rockers would make my list. unless john cougar counts.

http://pixhost.me/avaxhome/2008-01-24/guadalcanal_diary_Q_flipVflop_thumb.jpg

Fibonaccis...CVB...Men & Volts...Great Plains...Crippled Pilgrims...Thin White Rope...

...The Romans...Proof Of Utah...

not to mention rap singles. oof, fuck a janglerocker. there was soooooo much bad post-newwave/modern rock major label stuff at that time. soooooooooo much. just horrible horrible stuff.

xpost yeah a lot of this stuff isn't being "revived" because it didn't age well. *smh at teenage me liking the Connells*

or on the other hand it seems hard to take a weirdo band like CVB or the Meat Puppets and digest that as an influence in 2012

Yeah Jon, and Forced Exposure (a magazine that ended in the early '90s) too.

all that horrible post simple minds crap. blah. 4000 bands that sounded like late simple minds and the alarm!

so much advertising money spent on stuff like the grapes of wrath and the christians and texas. it was a bleak time.

My interest wasn't really about why it's not being revived but why the tenor of that time in indie rock, the counter-cultural aspect and the seriousness of it, was lost and has remained lost.

it's good to hear confirmation of that -- for a long time i thought i just couldn't find anything i liked very much, and to hear that it was actually all pretty crappy is gratifying, somehow

For me the center of discourse of this interzone was OPtion Magazine.

― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:38 AM (3 minutes ago)

otm. read that thing like the bible. or, well, the reviews anyway...

x-post to Skot--But aren't you getting off topic slightly--you're talking about when the college rock bands signed with the majors and released less interesting stuff (and/or the major label bands slightly influenced by the college rock ones) but not the college rock stuff itself

is there really that much of a distinction to be made?

Expose >>> Hoodoo Gurus

is there really that much of a distinction to be made?

― some dude, Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:47 AM (12 seconds ago)

Sure. Helios Creed and Live Skull were not about to get signed to a major label in 1987.

the counter-cultural aspect and the seriousness of it, was lost and has remained lost.

Irony wasn't invented until 1991

This isn't the first time this era's been called an interzone. Here's Tim F on The Lion and The Cobra.

live skull and helios were a hell of a lot more boring by 1987 though.

My interest wasn't really about why it's not being revived but why the tenor of that time in indie rock, the counter-cultural aspect and the seriousness of it, was lost and has remained lost.

― timellison, Wednesday, June 27, 2012 6:45 PM

You don't think some bands discussed on the Punk not indie thread or even Pitchfork 8.5 and up score rock bands think they're part of some sort of scene or something? Even with the internet and Spotify and smartphones and tv commercials

aussies doing it better in 1986:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gir7bw1MwEY

post-birdman interzone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXW-n0OY1xY

hey guys remember the died pretty

This is really more on the post-punk side of things, but I remember a friend buying this album mostly on the basis of the title, and all of us being disappointed by what it ended up sounding like:

― _Rudipherous_, Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:12 PM (2 hours ago)

aw man I loved 9353 sooo much

9353 Appreciation Thread

an acquired taste to be sure tho

hey guys remember CHRISTMAS

inexplicably one of my favorite videos of all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_xq8HsHDdA

hey guys remember the died pretty

no! i remember that their free dirt got a lot of positive press, but i never found a copy during the window of my active interest, and the follow-ups were always compared unfavorably to it, so they remained a mystery to me. just listened to a few tracks - not bad, similar to the gurus in the combination of jangle and garage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QesuVI-diqE

Never really got into that stripe of oz band, but I do have a huge soft spot for the Saints' Just Like Fire Would

Anyhow, it was the Rembrandts who ensured that jangly college rock could never again return.

hey guys remember CHRISTMAS

weird, i was talking about them on the CVB vs. Go4 thread yesterday. the christmas song i'd like to post, "everything you know is wrong", doesn't seem to be on youtube >:[

Never saw that Christmas video before - hilarious!

"I saw tad at the revival in philly"

i saw tad open for gwar there!

― scott seward, Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:47 PM

so yeah, 1989, tad booked two shows that night in philly, early at the revival with gwar and late at the khyber. the revival was all ages so, being 18, I ended up there. pretty sure the serial killers opened (incidentally their former drummer replaced james lo in live skull). I remember standing in the audience next to slymenstra from gwar without her makeup on, she was absolutely stunning and I kept having to remind myself not to stare at her. I'm sorry if I creeped you out, slymenstra. during tad I jumped in the pit and promptly fell down.

a couple days later at maxwells in hoboken I ended up interviewing tad (and his openers, some band called nirvana), he told me that after their set at the revival he was tired and decided to blow off the khyber show. then the guy from the khyber showed up at the revival and was like "what the hell are you doing, I was gonna pay you $150!" so tad hightailed it over to the khyber, played 4 songs, and got his $150.

the next night I was the ritz in NYC for the laughing hyenas/mudhoney/sonic youth show. it sounds a lot more amazing than it was. I kinda felt like stuff had wrapped up in '86 and at that point everybody was running on fumes. or laying the groundwork for grunge with their intelligent hard rock, bleh.

Anyhow, it was the Rembrandts who ensured that jangly college rock could never again return.

It has not been jangly college rock's day, their week, their month, or even their year.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6cevqpKm81qzpiyuo1_400.jpg

ripped this from a billboard issue on google books. You may have to squint, but it's worth it.

Never saw that Christmas video before - hilarious!

yeah, me either! great song too. <3<3<3

wish in excelsior dayglo had been half as well produced as ultra prophets...

Pedantic aside: wasn't it just referred to as "Revival" and not "The Revival." I only ever heard it called Revival (or "Club Revival" in event announcements).

"incidentally their former drummer replaced james lo in live skull)"

rich hutchins! he was in ruin too. and little gentlemen. and of cabbages and kings for a bit too. my friend julie was friends with him. my friend julie played violin on little gentlemen's cover of ultravox's the wild, the beautiful, and the damned on one of their albums in the 80's. they were goth punks.

yeah, i always called it Revival. hang out with the dudes from executive slacks and stuff. still think that Ex Slacks should get more credit for their industrial rock. they did it before ministry or nine inch nails.

aw yeah executive slacks! somebody post "the bus" video.

ruin! I think I still have their album.

executive slacks, 1984. as time went on it got harder to distinguish them from other electro goth beat merchants but that debut LP where they sound like early wall of voodoo covering the first swans EP is some of my favorite shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AV7LcUM2RM

and yeah us rubes from jersey always called it "the revival"... even in print

sorry philly, hope you at least got to see some good NJ shows in the 80s at the city gardens and the maxwells

rich hutchins! he was in ruin too. and little gentlemen. and of cabbages and kings for a bit too. my friend julie was friends with him. my friend julie played violin on little gentlemen's cover of ultravox's the wild, the beautiful, and the damned on one of their albums in the 80's. they were goth punks.

― scott seward, Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:25 PM (48 minutes ago)

he was such a goddamned animal on the drums. james lo is in my top 5 alltime drummers, rich had big shoes to fill when he joined live skull, but he committed himself honorably. the albums don't do his drum sound justice, either. he mashed those things so hard you could see the whole kit shaking when he played.

ok, I'm going now

*switches off interzone light*

Yeah, that was some band. The big change is sound was the guitars - I think they used Rolands in the early days, but switched to Marshalls.

They Might Be Giants (although they kept on truckin' along and made some $$$ doing tunes for TV etc.)

I often wonder how rich they are now because of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse.

― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:08 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Malcolm In the Middle theme song to was also TMBG.

At the same time all this was going on you also had the Wax Trax records coming out too.

I'm tempted to poll the top ten of croup's screenshot

TMBG fans are a loyal lot

I'm tempted to poll the top ten of croup's screenshot

at least make it 20, get siouxsie and squeeze in there

30 gets you some random guy voting for dire straits

xpost on Christmas. One of the more annoying things is that there used to be some really nice live videos of the band up on youtube, and they vanished without a trace. Really, really wish I'd copied them at the time...

i have the third christmas album on matador at the store and i've never listened to it. found the first album on vinyl for a buck this year and i was happy. used to have the tape.

this thread is disappointingly devoid of free jazz vibraphone

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513AgmoH8VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

the flip of the "stupid kids" 12" had a cover of "ring my bell"

I'm tempted to poll the top ten of croup's screenshot

at least make it 20, get siouxsie and squeeze in there

Yeah, "The Globe" craps on everything else on that list from a majestic height

Relevant:

http://avc.lu/Og2H8j

And the comments are, well, comments.

Good article!

some of my favorites of these types of bands are on the 80s edition of "poptopia." i don't know their full catalogs very well, but these are mostly good songs...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fR_ULmpoM8I/Tt_4IbNirJI/AAAAAAAAUJk/g4MM-t6MtQk/s1600/Poptopia80s-Back.jpg

(excluding the romantics, utopia, the db's, marshall crenshaw and the bangles, i guess, because those were not really "college rock" bands.. i meant the bands besides those .. i dunno if the plimsouls count for this either but that one song is pretty amazing)

knew translator would be in there somewhere

Mo Better Booze Collapse

Haven't thought of Jason and the Scorchers in years. They played my Grad Night at Disneyland along with the Dazz Band, Krash, Matthew Wilder, Dwight Twilley and Sparks. Quite a lineup.

The mind reels at Sparks joining Dazz Band on stage for a version of "Let it Whip."

What a dream!

that really happened? Dazz Band, Krash, Matthew Wilder, Dwight Twilley and Sparks
?

Surprised that Blake Babies are nowhere to be found on this thread

Picked up a record collection the other day with a bunch of Interzone stuff in it: Fetchin Bones, ScreamingTribesmen, Concrete Blonde, Voice of the Beehive, Lava Hay, the deservedly maligned Hoodoo Gurus. Yeah, lots of that stuff hasn't aged well. It's been a fun nostalgia trip, though.

Deservedly maligned? Hoodoo Gurus are the only one of those bandsI still listen to regularly, and I owned/own many of them. I never get tired of Stoneage Romeos.

Yeah Hoodoo Gurus have aged way better than almost all of the bands from that time.

I think major label alternative from the period ends up being on odd grab bag that doesn't necessarily represent the whole scene very well.