Project for an ILM blog/site/publication

This thread is dedicated to Scott, and Maura.

You know, we really COULD do this.

as long as it never contains articles that link to, reference or rehash ILM threads

"In a post..." wait I did that.

IN A WORLD...

ILXvengers assemble

EXCELSIOR

What we could call it

Or maybe "Quinjet Crunk" in keeping with the Avengers theme

call it 'freaky trigger'

That's og ilm.

I would be totally down for participating in this in some capacity, but I have zero delusions about being a competent writer.

I would actually love if this happened.

Do I actually have to like music to be involved?

fuck you, pay me

As much as i enjoy getting paid for writing, i'd be up for this.

Yeah I mean obviously my agent will have the final say.

What the fuck would we need this for when ILM already exists?

Sharing our ideas with people who don't post on ILM?

I'm too lazy to keep a personal blog going but it might be fun to contribute to a broader one without the complications that come with paid work.

fuck you, pay me

― centibutt hz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:41 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah i mean, team blogs and doing it for the love are cool. but given that this stemmed from a conversation regarding the sad state of alt weeklies and people who deserve to make a living at writing losing their jobs -- it'd be nice if some of this energy and brainstorming went toward figuring out whether there's a way for people to get paid to make and run a quality DIY music writing outlet. the SEO clickbait approach to traffic and advertising doesn't seem to actually work all that well, and people aren't feeling too good about things like Kickstarter at the moment. i know a lot of people here have great things to write about music, what i'm interested in right now is whether we're smart enough to think of a way to do this that might at some point generate money and allow people to be paid for their time and effort.

There are really only 3 revenue models: advertising, subscription, and payola. Payola's dead even if you wanted to try it, online advertising is a strictly volume game and the music-writing marketplace is already flooded, and subscriptions... I mean, there's a theoretical subset out there that might pay a pittance for smarter/funnier/longer music writing than they can get anywhere else. But it is a very small subset, as we all know, so the likelihood of generating any substantial revenue is low, and the subscription model severely limits your exposure.

So I'm sympathetic in theory to the pay-me sentiment, but I don't know where anyone thinks money's going to come from. (Barring a wealthy music-geek benefactor, which I suppose is the 4th model.)

Or I guess we could start an ILM Foundation for Excellence in Critical Thought, and apply for NEA grants.

you might be right. i'm just saying it might be worth having a conversation about IF there's a better way before skipping straight to "all hope is lost, let's have some fun doing it for free."

I can't see an ILM fundraising working like it does with the server costs.

you might be right. i'm just saying it might be worth having a conversation about IF there's a better way before skipping straight to "all hope is lost, let's have some fun doing it for free."

no money being involved does have some principle to it. not that i think everyone/anyone should be working for free, but personally i've enjoyed some of the writing i did/do for free more than anything i got paid for, overall.

yeah that doesn't seem viable (xpost)

What would the focus be? A general blog covering everything with specialist writers covering niches ?

fan fiction, mostly

lots of polls iirc

fuck you, poll me

Will Geir get a column?

If in exchange we get the Norwegian Oil-Underwritten Art Institute for Stuff and Things to subsidize it all, then yes.

What are we discussing here, exactly? I'm up for it anyway - doing stuff beats not doing stuff imo.

as long as it never contains articles that link to, reference or rehash ILM threads

― some dude, Friday, September 14, 2012 11:37 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it should be all articles that rehash ilm threads but never reference or link to them

I just feel that the people who I regularly think are OTM on ILM are already writing for other organs. That if someone is good on ILM, and they have the urge to write semi-professionally or professionally, this place is such a breeding ground that they end up going on to write for Publication X, Y or Z already. ILM is what it needs to be, an egalitarian discussion board where people talk through ideas about music. Why turn it into something it's not?

Well, mostly because Publications X, Y or Z either died or turned into compost. (I'm not all hyperfired up about the idea due to the funding issues noted, but it's a lovely daydream.)

Well, that dying or turning into compost thing might say something about the nature of the beast we're discussing. (And also things like The Guardian and Pitchfork and The Quietus have not died, and people from ILM still go on to write for them...) If people want to go off and start a new fun music publication, fine, more power to you and good luck. But I don't like the association of that project with ILM, because that is not what ILM is for. I don't *want* ILM to be a music publication. I want ILM to be ILM.

It needs lots of lists! With semiclad women and lots of hipster sexism and racism!

Oh wait sorry I was thinking of Village Voice Media.

this is what we do: put vote up vote down buttons on each post, but when you click on them it doesnt affect ilx it just determines what gets funneled to the ILM blog/site/publication, we pay heave ho to do the SEO, put google ads on there, and we all get free buffy dvds

i quite like 'the blizzard', the football quarterly which is mostly digital (pdf and epub formats, you can get printed copies too). i don't know that it's a massive goldmine but they've done six issues now, quality's high and goes off in all sorts of directions. i pay three pounds to get access to their archive for three months. something like that could work well.

internet mobs flood streets, rend clothing and repent to God after millions inadvertently follow link to ilxthreadreviews.tumblr.com

yeah selling a quarterly ebook type thing, with long pieces of good writers digging into interesting topics, would be cool. maybe could be the for-profit outpost of something that is updated more regularly. i dunno. (xpost)

Well, that dying or turning into compost thing might say something about the nature of the beast we're discussing. (And also things like The Guardian and Pitchfork and The Quietus have not died, and people from ILM still go on to write for them...) If people want to go off and start a new fun music publication, fine, more power to you and good luck. But I don't like the association of that project with ILM, because that is not what ILM is for. I don't *want* ILM to be a music publication. I want ILM to be ILM.

not one person has suggested turning this messageboard into a music site or making any changes to this messageboard.

ILMBlog is dumb (#1904812749 in a series)

Is LocalGarda hott or not?? CLICK 2 SEE

ILMBlog is dumb (#1904812749 in a series)

― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:23 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

I was TRYING to have a thread about an ILM related zine and you had to ruin it by objectifying me xpost

Am I allowed to be involved in this pls?

maybe I'm just getting softer with age but I don't think this is a terrible idea btw. I mean it would drive lots of new users to ilx if it had any success at all, and I don't think lots of new users coming in regularly is maybe the best thing but the project could also be interesting. however I also don't think it'd likely create enough revenue for any one person to even buy a box of Annie's Chocolate Bunny Grahams, a delicious all-natural whole grain graham snack.

You are making me so hungry right now.

for serious i do think this idea gets a lot more interesting if you use some analytical approach to ilx infos, im not sure exactly what that looks like but theres all sorts of things that pull pieces from things and assemble them like http://storify.com/danlev/hilarious-twitter-bug-swaps-profile-pictures-and-b or w/e, not that there shouldnt be original writing but all of you are free to go write blogs all the time anywhere, incorporating the ilx hivemind would give the project some sort of unique hook, even if its just figuring out what to write about and then stealing all the best arguments, but i think itd be best if it allowed you to create a format that wasnt just the same as everything else everywhere

like e.g. getting two or three people who are having an interesting argument in a topical ILM thread to pull it out into a more longform round-table thing could be kind of cool?

On the downside, Vokle has a spectacularly pretentious sting that plays before all shows, discussion about that may end up dominating all shows.

I kinda like the podcast idea, but how could it work without including the actual music? I can't imagine a handful of us talking about stuff you can't hear simultaneously appealing to anyone who isn't us.

well i proposed the Rifftrax-ish idea of having running commentary to an album -- you could extend that to a 'mix' of songs, maybe publicly available on Spotify or something

i.e. something you can sync the podcast up to if you wish to hear what's being discussed

Surprised at how many people enjoy podcasts tbh. Requires dedication to sitting & listening somewhere; would much rather read in my own time.

live ilm FAPcast discussing track as it plays faintly on the jubebox in the corner of the pub

i'm not personally big on podcasts (really just can't bring myself to carve out much listening time for something besides music) but i understand the appeal and feel like it would be a worthwhile component to include in something like this, alongside text.

um not to shoehorn a plug in here or anything but: me & EZSnappin have been doing a music podcast for about a couple of months and I think I speak for both of us in saying that we'd be happy to contribute in whatever way to this goal, though I think the both of us agree that our podcast def has some ways to go before either of us are comfortable with it being affiliated with any type of professional endeavour. But I'm not even sure if you just want to do one podcast with a revolving cast or if you want to try to develop a few different podcast ideas simultaneously or what. Just putting that out there...

I'm sure that several of IlX's resident deejays would be happy to contribute mixes, no talking required.

Its not like we're going to stop making them anyway.

whole new site is authored and admin'd by Whiney and consists only of Whiney ranking threads from worst to least worst

I kinda like the podcast idea, but how could it work without including the actual music? I can't imagine a handful of us talking about stuff you can't hear simultaneously appealing to anyone who isn't us.

I think little inserts where people talk about things or play a track and talk about it, would have potential. You don't actually hear a lot of that, it's not easy to do but it could be good.

i kinda hate podcasts. i wouldn't mind if someone transcribed them to text but reading >>> listening

― Mordy, Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Surprised at how many people enjoy podcasts tbh. Requires dedication to sitting & listening somewhere; would much rather read in my own time.

― kinder, Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm and otm. they ARE popular, across most fields i've seen them in, but i can't fathom why - they're so time-consuming and attention-consuming in comparison to reading

they're for commuting and walking and lying awake, for me, times when a book would be inconvenient.

(what i don't get is video news items)

er is "attention-consuming" not p much the point

reading in your own time just means skippable when not conforming to own solipsistic interests usually

obv it depends what the content is, there's nothing worse on a podcast than someone being wheeled in to flatly read out a preprepped essay, same way that reading a conversation onscreen will feel somewhat limited

They're good for working to if you don't need your mind on what you're doing and way less disruptive than e.g. checking ilx

i could read the content of most podcasts in so much less time than it takes to listen to them

i don't really find reading a q&a on screen limited at all

i do agree we'll very probably want a format as skimmable as possible for the venture under discussion

I personally f'ckin' hate podcasts and use them about twice a year at most, but I do know shitloads of people who use them loads and loads, so I can see some point in them. But I don't think they should be the main event.

Re: server space, why not just set-up a free Wordpress-hosted blog and pay for a .com domain through that? Flexible, built-in CMS, and, bar the domain name, it's free. Stick podcast material on Youtube and embed it into pages on the Wordpress site. That way we can concentrate on content and design rather than infrastructure.

i do agree we'll very probably want a format as skimmable as possible for the venture under discussion

ah now

I think little inserts where people talk about things or play a track and talk about it, would have potential.

i just finally edited something well, exactly like this last night featuring a certain one-time ilxor, one current one, and one totally non-one, and it is pretty great iidssm :)

Stick podcast material on Youtube

this seems to misapprehend both syllables of the word "podcast"

For almost 10 years now podcasts have been in the "store", with download buttons labelled "Free", and at one point it just seemed natural and logical that eventually some podcasts would have "$0.99" in that button instead. But this has never happened. To my mind that one change would revolutionize broadcasting, and wildly in Apple's favor. The only reason I can think of for it not happening is that the only way Apple could be sure it wasn't violating copyright law would be to actually listen to every podcast - and get in contact with the producers of each podcast - to make sure all the music was cleared, and well, that would take a staff of thousands

i thought ricky gervaise had a podcast that needed paying for? did that not happen?

also, i am excited about that thing you have just edited :)

Never Not Funny and The Benson Interruption are two pay-by-episode podcasts, as were latter series of Gervais' "abuse a pleasant man" show. I imagine there are plenty of others, and many, many series do "bonus" episodes that require purchase.

xpost

Here's my 2c worth.

1. IMO content should never be mined directly from ILX threads. ILX remains a more precious flower than The Project and making ILX threads more self-conscious would be a horrible thing.

2. ILX threads should TOTALLY serve as petri dishes for Project Pieces though, whether it's ilxors encouraging resident savants to do a Project Piece after a particularly booming post, or ilxors involved in a fertile back-and-forth saying 'b, what would you think about you, c and I taking this to a workshop thread?'

3. Feel like the meat of the thing could be a mix of meaty, depthy solo joints by ilxors, point-counterpoint things harnessing ~the unique strengths of ILX~, and the jukebox model (which should def include old sides as well as new)

4. There could be a private sub-board of workshop threads where solo pieces are critiqued/edited or team pieces are hashed out?

5. I would very much want to volunteer w/r/t film music and classical music; in film music's case, there are currently zero venues in print or online where well-articulated non-fluffy non-fannish writing appears on the regular.

6. DJ Mixes - great idea

Would totally volunteer to take part in this, but this is where my self-consciousness kicks in and I say but there are people on ilm that are way better at knowing stuff than I do.

All excellent ideas xp

If I just let my imagination run wild, I could picture something like this:

- Quarterly "ebook" publication sold for like $3.99 or something on Amazon, etc. Under 100 pages in length.
- Long form essays only (min. of 10 pages each).
- People nominate ideas on an ILM thread (can submit their own ideas as well as lobby for specific posters to write on a particular subject) and then the board votes on them.
- Once the writers & subjects have been selected, there is another nomination & voting round to determine who will edit each piece. Though the finished piece will be primarily the writer's work, this will provide some of the back-and-forth that ILM is known for, because both writer & editor have to agree on the finished product.
- Some firmish deadlines for when things have to be submitted in draft form, revised, finalized, etc.

as happy as i am to throw ideas around i'm about as convinced that ~this thing could work~ as i was at the start of the thread, ie not at all. who exactly would the audience be? who is buying this, whatever it is?

Would love to read some 33 1/3 type essays.

who is buying this, whatever it is?
in the beginning it would probably be ilxors themselves buying this. but after a while if it would become known outside of our circles the percentage of external buyers shuld grow. the books from the 33 1/3 series i read where mostly disappointing (except the loveless one). i think this thing where we could all participate in a way - and if it would be by just proposing albums or whatever to write about - would be more interesting for me as a reader. and i could maybe even write a ten page essay on the sun bear concerts or whatever. o. nate's suggestions sound quite reasonable to me.

the books <b>were</b> disappointing, sorry.

guys I have a link to a torrent of all the ilm publication content, PM me for details

for sampling purposes only, please support the authors

Volunteering myself for ILX podcast organization. Perhaps the admins should set up a "I Love Branding" board?

5. I would very much want to volunteer w/r/t film music and classical music; in film music's case, there are currently zero venues in print or online where well-articulated non-fluffy non-fannish writing appears on the regular.

this is a cool idea, there's definitely so many underserved niches of music coverage that different people here could get an opportunity to dig into

Forgot to mention, the two podcasts I think got close to what an ILX podcast would be like are Soto and Wood's terrific Roxy Music series and FreakyTrigger's A Bite of Stars, a Slug of Time, and Thou.

If we could get even near that kind of quality, I'd be a listener.

Perhaps the admins should set up a "I Love Branding" board?

I Love Monetising

You will all probably think this is a dumb idea but I love the idea of a site that's very 1996. That's all frames and HTML and kind of bizarre to navigate and takes someone 2 hours to build. Could be moderated by a handful of ilxors or not idk.

Anyway the idea is the pages can be anything you fucking want, cuz everyone can do HTML in word or Dreamweaver 2.0 and it won't take any super genius wizard to make a page cuz you just dump a file in a folder and the author gets complete control of how the thing will look on the screen. And it can be a block of text or something totally experimental.

It'll free people up to be as creative as they want to be and it won't be all branded and swish and boring and there'll hardly be any admin and it'll be waaaaay more interesting + fun to read imo like ilxor is and who knows maybe it'll eventually lead to something that you can "monetize" or w/e or maybe it'll just live on the internet as some bizarre 96 throwback site made in 2012 that contains nothing but thom yorke slashfic

i mentioned this on the laurie speigal thread but i totally get nostalgic for when the internet was like this

http://retiary.org/ls/

frames seemed so futuristic at the time.

y'see the unruly navigation and user unfriendliness is what will make you buy the LOL MUSIC ILX ANNUAL for £50 at the end of the year

i would be into something like that, so long as it's done in a way that's user-friendly and ultimately more of a deliberate, stylish visual statement than a total 'lol angelfire' retro joke.

Does VV own the copyright to the "Pazz & Jop" name? What a coup if an ILX pub/site became the home of the definitive year-end poll, under whatever name.

Good point. You deserve to be allowed to vote for thinking of that.

Zappa reissues in the top 10!

Ha, I would never vote in such a thing. Not qualified.

I was hearing about an interesting discussion system from the olden days of internet. It involves a set of invited participants and a moderator. The mod sets the topic, and the participants each write (in private) a piece on the topic. At a preset time, the responses are all revealed. Then there's a time for comment where (again in private), participants (and anyone else) can write responses.

In the end, they are all revealed, and that's it. It apparently worked pretty well for discussing contentious legal topics. I wonder if that would generate an worthwhile discussion on our sorts of topics.

I was thinking about something very similar for the writing group I've been procrastinating over, but I don't understand the need for privacy at stage two - to me that seems like the time to open it up to discussion.

If we're keen on podcasting, that might be a way to do it? Four essays on whatever, which our charismatics spark off?

I think the justification for privacy at stage two is they're really concerned with avoiding human's natural tendency for consensus building. By keeping the responses private until the reveal you avoid that and see just how broad a range of opinion you can really generate