physical music non-purchasers: how do you acquire/consume music? (NOW WITH MORE SOULSEEK)

link to scik mouthy's thread:

How much physical music (CDs, vinyl, minidiscs, cases ingles, whatever) have you bought so far this year?

purchasing mp3s (itunes, amazon mp3, emusic, etc)
downloading mp3s from blogs (mediafire, rapidshare, filestube)
downloading artist-approved free content

^mixture of the above (plus promo stuff)

i do stream on soundcloud and youtube sometimes but really prefer not to, listening always feels more cursory like that. NO SPOTIFY EVER.

never have managed to work out torrents and not sure how to turn the tv on

h8 radio because people speak and interrupt the music

You're able to download music from blogs but don't know how to turn the TV on?!

last time i tried to turn the tv on and there was no one else in the house i ended up sitting in front of a blank screen for 20 minutes frantically pressing every button possible on each of our gazillion remotes before i had to give up

last time i tried to stream a proper tv channel (as opposed to dodgy internet tennis streams, which i can cope with), channel 4 loaded but then refused to play

tvcatchup refuses to work for me

i don't know why and no one ever explains

you should have included promos considering the amount of music journos here

Do you have digital TV in Britain? In here we have it, and you first have to turn on the digital television adapter, then the telly. The TV should then automatically get the signal from the adapter. You can then change channels with the digital adapter's remote. The TV remote is only needed for adjusting sound and picture, you can't change channels with it.

Though I think nowadays there are televisions that have a built-in digital adapter, so you don't need two remotes with them?

But I know what you're talking about, I didn't have a TV set for 10 years, during which time DVD players and digi adapters became the norm, so it took me quite some time to learn how to watch stuff with three different remotes.

last time i tried to turn the tv on and there was no one else in the house i ended up sitting in front of a blank screen for 20 minutes frantically pressing every button possible on each of our gazillion remotes before i had to give up

last time i tried to stream a proper tv channel (as opposed to dodgy internet tennis streams, which i can cope with), channel 4 loaded but then refused to play

tvcatchup refuses to work for me

i don't know why and no one ever explains

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 13:33 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha, i think this is what i mean when i say a lot of people who might be interested in hearing new music these days could be hindered by their lack of computer/internet proficiency.

I buy both vinyl and digi so, for digi -

1) buy wavs, ideally from artists own site, otherwise clone,juno etc -
2) download from soundcloud - mixes mainly
3) occasional downloads from a blog for long out of print stuff that isn't available in any other form

Combination of Spotify and internet radio (WFMU, WREK, Psychedelicized, EVR, et al).

i'm so happy that this thread open w/ tuomas skeptically grilling lex about his inability to operate a television set

I download artist-approved free content, on a rare occasion might buy MP3s too, if the product isn't available in physical form. Don't really do any of the other stuff anymore, as I mostly listen to stuff done by non-famous, non-rich musicians, so I actually want support them in making their music.

streaming music (pandora, spotify): for most new releases - spotify sub
torrenting mp3s (bit-torrent, pirate bay): for obscure OOP stuff - what.cd
borrowing physical music from friends: for really obscure stuff not otherwise found on interwebz (generally 'borrowed' thru dropbox)
streaming video (youtube) and purchasing mp3s (itunes, amazon mp3, emusic, etc): occasionally

haha, i think this is what i mean when i say a lot of people who might be interested in hearing new music these days could be hindered by their lack of computer/internet proficiency.

yes but the point is that EVEN I have no problems with acquiring music through my computer

In the last few years, I've primarily been getting music from the library and burning it. I don't worry about the piracy angle of this too much because it's mostly very high-profile major label music from yesteryear. Newer or smaller bands or albums I buy on amazon mp3. I used to download a lot of out-of-print stuff and bootlegs, but not as frequently these days.

Do you have digital TV in Britain? In here we have it, and you first have to turn on the digital television adapter, then the telly. The TV should then automatically get the signal from the adapter. You can then change channels with the digital adapter's remote. The TV remote is only needed for adjusting sound and picture, you can't change channels with it.

we have digital tv. i technically know what buttons to press but it just refuses to work for me due to malice

My 80 year old neighbour can cope with digital TV. She'd never be able to download an MP3 though. Horses for courses.

The "horses for courses" file sharing/music buying/streaming/downloading system that Scik so casually just mentioned - what the hell is that?

xpost

yes but the point is that EVEN I have no problems with acquiring music through my computer

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 13:52 (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it really is horses for courses though lex. i know quite a few people (not just doddering old geriatrics) who are music fans that don't even have an internet connection.

invite only xp

t**t - oh man, this would be a good idea weirdly.

dog latin, my mon - do elucidate!

the very elite music tracker H4C

:)

in descending order of frequency:

streaming music (pandora, spotify)
purchasing mp3s (itunes, amazon mp3, emusic, etc)
listening to terrestrial radio
streaming video (youtube)
downloading artist-approved free content

I really miss:

borrowing physical music from friends

Throughout most of high school, it felt like jjj and I had joint custody of a massive CD collection.

how's life forgot Britannia Music Club.

i still use soulseek a lot :-/ a bad habit i never got out of. I think I'll prob have to stop soon and find some other method.

either youtube or what.cd

purchasing mp3s (amazon + bandcamp)
free mp3s via friends (promos etc)
streaming video (youtube, soundcloud at work)

no spotify (mostly because it's blocked at work, and these days i only listen there or in the car)

i still love soulseek, it's the quickest and easiest way to find obscuro music w/o needing secret torrent account. haven't downloaded anything in forever, though ... now it's all spotify, soundcloud, or whatever streaming albums pop up on NPR and other sites.

mostly just spotify. i've pretty much stopped putting music on my phone except for stuff i do or stuff my friends do (i.e. stuff that wouldn't be on spotify). do 90% of my music listening at work and spotify on computer is the easiest way to do that.

feel like i explained this on the other thread.

spotify for older stuff and non-dance music.
mp3s from soundcloud/beats in space type shows, etc for dance mixes
some mp3s from beatport if i've been djing or am about to soon
and some mp3s of more rare or hard to find stuff from blogs
will be buying some vinyl again soon enough too

itunes - tryin a be a good citizen, reserved for things i know im into
soundcloud/youtube - checkin a song out, jammin a sweet mix or w/e
torrents/mediafire etc - checking an album out, getting albums from the huge kanyes of the world where im not really concerned w/their finances, things that arent on itunes

purchasing mp3s (itunes, amazon mp3, emusic, etc) = new releases / pop music on demand. usually on my phone. impulse buys.
streaming music (pandora, spotify) = all types of music. lots synced on my phone. use it a lot tbh.
streaming video (youtube) = check this if i can't find what i'm looking for anywhere else. hate the sound quality. watch lots of live stuff tho.
downloading mp3s from blogs (mediafire, rapidshare, filestube) = music from around the world.
downloading mp3s via filesharing networks (soulseek, etc) = techno n that
torrenting mp3s (bit-torrent, pirate bay) = rarely do i want the whole discography of something in one go, but if i do, i'll try here
downloading artist-approved free content = yup
borrowing physical music from the library = nope
borrowing physical music from friends = yup
shoplifting physical music from stores = sometimes feels like it when i buy pristine jazz records from store down the road
listening to terrestrial radio = not for music, no, sadly
listening to satellite radio = um, no.
watching music channels on tv = you're a poor human being if you still do this

100% streaming

These conversations always make me feel a bit estranged and ascetic. I do basically none of these things, except sometimes buy or "steal" mp3s for something I already own on vinyl and love to the point where I want it portable. I've always found the possibility of grabbing any music I want out of the ether more than a little overwhelming, to the point where I don't even really know where to start. I already feel like I have too few hours per day to really listen to and enjoy music, and so many things I already own that I haven't digested enough. The last thing I want is to feel like I'm in constant "preview" mode, giving a cursory listen to a recent download to justify the time and memory I spent acquiring it. I feel silly admitting this and more than a little out of touch with the way most people who love music as much as I do digest things these days, but I've found that I need to fairly strictly limit the way I actually encounter and intake music in order to preserve what I love about listening to it. If I'm curious enough about something, based typically on strong recommendations of trusted people, or things I read, I will go ahead and buy it in my preferred format (usually vinyl, more than occasionally CD, depending on genre/availability). I realize it sounds rigid, but it's the only way I feel I can give it a "fair" listen. Also, I think having actually purchased something makes me more likely to spend time and attention on it, which ultimately leads to more satisfaction on my end.

classic tuomas up there

mp3 blogs and spotify for me

good post Clarke B

I wish I was more like that. I'd probably love things I've downloaded onto my phone a lot more if I owned the record. I heard that Lindstrom and Christabelle on vinyl at a friends house a few weeks ago and it felt like a completely different record to what I'd been listening to through headphones.

I'm quite discerning with what I buy physical copies of- quite proud of my little record collection, it's always things I really want to give a "fair listen" or things that I want to play out.

spotify subscription
private torrent site
purchase of music on cd/vinyl (cd usually ripped immediately, vinyl usually listened to on the weekend and a digital copy torrented)
podcasts/downloaded mixes/soundcloud etc
itunes/amazon/boomkat/bleep

most of these are pretty equal, I tend to use torrent stuff to preview music sometimes

Thanks, Crackle. It was actually having quite a few experiences like yours with the Lindstrom & Christabelle that cemented in my mind how much of a difference the medium makes for me, especially in those early tentative stages of getting to know a record. It sounds corny, but there's something almost sacred for me in listening to an artist or record I've been curious about for the first time.

So my new truck comes with a year subscription to sirius radio and I'm surprised at how much I like it. Heart&Soul is by far my favorite channel, but others are great too, XMU, 1st wave, backspin, shade45, the metal channels are good and the classic rock ones are too. Even spa which plays ambient is great. I think I'll pay once the free time runs out.

definitely kind of disgusting how much more reasonable the pay satellite radio stations are than the terrestrial ones

I feel very similar to Clarke B upthread. Especially with Spotify. I'm sure it's great and really good at organising your music into a profile and eventually starts working in an intuitive way, but to start I've usually found it daunting to use, the prospect of having EVERY SONG EVER at my fingertips, to the point where I find it almost debilitating wondering what I should listen to next. I guess I'm a big browser. I like to scan through my music until I find something that picks my fancy rather than thinking something up and finding it.

What you said about "justifying the time and memory I spent acquiring it" - not sure if this is the same thing, but when I owned a larger CD collection, I used to sometimes challenge myself to work out the time and place I bought a release, and often I could remember pretty well what shop and what I was doing that day. My music collection has always served as a sort of diary for me in that respect. Of course individual tracks and albums remind me of places and times by the sound alone, but with CDs I would be "ah, I remember being given that as a present" or "I remember going out and buying that on release day, and it was also the day I got my GCSE results", which are little warm moments I don't think I'll get so easily with MP3 downloads.

Try retaking your GCSEs.

What you said about "justifying the time and memory I spent acquiring it" - not sure if this is the same thing, but when I owned a larger CD collection, I used to sometimes challenge myself to work out the time and place I bought a release, and often I could remember pretty well what shop and what I was doing that day. My music collection has always served as a sort of diary for me in that respect. Of course individual tracks and albums remind me of places and times by the sound alone, but with CDs I would be "ah, I remember being given that as a present" or "I remember going out and buying that on release day, and it was also the day I got my GCSE results", which are little warm moments I don't think I'll get so easily with MP3 downloads.

― This Is... The Police (dog latin), Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:02 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've always done this; it's something I love about my collection. A good handful of my used LPs still have the stickers on them showing me what I paid, which for certain things I bought long ago can be funny given how much they're going for these days. I also sort of re-live the thrill of finding something especially rare or wanted-by-me when I play the record. I'd say it's definitely still more "about the music" for me, and I try not to be overly sentimental with these things, but I can't deny that it's part of the fun.

Torrent, Youtube, Spotify, iTunes.

deification of teenagers by people too old to know is a ludicrous ilx staple, but i agree with matt on this particular topic, loosely.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

These results kind of bear out my concerns that lead to the first thread - i.e. that people who consume digital music by and large don't pay for it. Only approx 15% of voters in this poll pay for MP3s, and even those who stream legitimately (and pay subscription, which we've sadly not got breakdown of)... Well, we know the revenue models of streaming services, and they're not working for artists at the moment. Now you may say that ILM isn't a representative sample, but I'd be shocked if 90% of voters didn't identify as both serious music fans and law-abiding citizens who believe in fair pay for fair work. I doubt a wider sample taking this poll would reveal a higher proportion of people paying full price for all their digital music. My worry is that if the economics of the music industry erode any further, we'll be left with a less creative and fascinating industry, and we'd all be worse off for that.

i didn't vote in this because my digital means of consumption is spread fairly evenly over a number of options, which i'm guessing is true for most others as well

btw nick i'm not sure we needed an ilm poll to tell us that the Music Industry Is Dying, it's kind of been a thing for a while now

Just because we're all aware of it doesn't mean the message doesn't need reiterating every so often. I think it's quite important!

Only approx 15% of voters in this poll pay for MP3s

That may not be completely right cos we're talking about primary means of acquisition here. Not will results be affected because people can only vote for one option, but the results will be skewed somewhat as it's easier to listen to more music through Soulseek, Youtube, Spotify, than it is to acquire it through purchase. Technically, more music might be being bought than ever before but this could be equally and exponentially matched by people accessing even more music through non-traditional / free means.

Yeah, that's a fair enough point, and an ILX poll can never be sophisticated enough to pull out data that you could use to form anything more substantial than a hunch. There's something about the word 'acquisition' in the poll question which makes me think that this poll isn't just about how we listen to music mostly (raw hours is probably streaming digital radio at work for me, although today I'm in the office alone and playing MP3s [ripped from CDs I own] off my iPhone).

The ontology behind this whole question is very complex and touches on ethics and environmental issues (I had a CD of music I already own air-mailed to me from Japan, ffs, think of the airmiles). There is no satisfactory answer or conclusion or approach; simpyk, what you're happiest / most comfortable with doing as an individual. Which feels a little too late-period capitalism relativist to me.

The ontology behind this whole question is very complex and touches on ethics and environmental issues (I had a CD of music I already own air-mailed to me from Japan, ffs, think of the airmiles).

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a jumbo jet filled with CDs. (There are or were I believe actual people who eschewed the usual digital transport mechanisms of torrent etc in favour of mailing hard drives full of music.)

lol. some guy coming up to me at a party a couple years ago, asking "do you want all the music in the world?" He then whipped a hard-drive out of his trench-coat and offered to let me grab anything I wanted off it. There was some classic rock that I probably would have grabbed, but it was far from "all the music in the world". The red flags on it were a lot of trance and a very complete Incubus discography, so I politely disengaged from the conversation.

The circumstances around that were that I had stopped into the party on the way back from Best Buy and had a new external drive outside in my car.

Pretty stupid story, I guess.

"all the music in the world" is great

some guy coming up to me at a party a couple years ago, asking "do you want all the music in the world?

Last time this happened to me, my nose turned into a sausage and my wife ended up hacked to pieces whilst still inconceivably alive inside a wooden box.

what?

you heard

I remember some discussions I had with friends in the late 90s-early 00s (when file sharing became really big) wondering how long it would be until there were people who basically had all of recorded music released throughout history on a single hard drive. And then they could just go out and sell copies of "all music" for 10 bucks or whatever to people on the street. Fun times (with drugs).

Yeah my friend once had bought a similar hd off someone with 'all the music in the world', alot of which i copied, most of which now sits on DVD+Rs and have never been listened to. I think the dream of personally amassing every song ever was kind of something in the early 2k's but thank god for streaming and youtube and the sheer reality seeping in of how laughably impossible that would be.

why would anyone want all the music in the world when 99% of it is guaranteed not to appeal to you at all. And your spouse ends up in pieces in a box too.

To futilely bat back at the looming specter of mortality?

there was definitely a thing people did in the napster days where sometimes you'd come across something you weren't really that interested in but figured you might be at some point in the future so you just downloaded it, since who knew if this would be easy to find in the future if ever you really wanted it.

Basically something like "oooh, this guy is sharing Frank Zappa's entire discography. I don't really know anything about Frank Zappa but some people seem to really like him. I better download this just in case."

kind of wonder if there's an overlap between that and the people who think they need their whole music collection on their ipod with them at all times

Props to the shoplifter.

I kind of assume that was Scot S.

there was definitely a thing people did in the napster days where sometimes you'd come across something you weren't really that interested in but figured you might be at some point in the future so you just downloaded it, since who knew if this would be easy to find in the future if ever you really wanted it.

Basically something like "oooh, this guy is sharing Frank Zappa's entire discography. I don't really know anything about Frank Zappa but some people seem to really like him. I better download this just in case."

― silverfish, Monday, 15 October 2012 16:19 (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

kind of wonder if there's an overlap between that and the people who think they need their whole music collection on their ipod with them at all times

― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Monday, 15 October 2012 16:21 (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Semi guilty of both these things at one point or another? The latter happens when I suddenly HAVE to listen to, I dunno, O Superman or something RIGHT HERE NOW or else I'll have a mini breakdown right there on platform 9.

I did that with a 5GB package of Sunn O)))) several years ago. Still haven't listened to it all yet.

I once downloaded a torrent of all albums released by Soul Jazz. This was at least 7 years ago. I've listened to maybe a third of it.

5GBs?? I know they've been around a while but that sounds excessive...

weren't you getting all snobby about formats earlier? everyone knows you have to listen to sunn o))) in uncompressed aiff

lex's essentialism/New Criticism model of music is so weird coming from him imo

kind of wonder if there's an overlap between that and the people who think they need their whole music collection on their ipod with them at all times

a lot of friends were big on this at the time ipods first came about, and seemed to have "filling" their ipod as a goal, ie they'd share music via hard drives or go to someone's house and get a load of shit seemingly without great amounts of thought.

personally i've never really felt the need to have more than a 20gb device, and can easily manage with 16gb or a lot less than that really. i like an ipod where i can shuffle it and not flick past stuff.

A friend was visiting at the weekend and was keen to check out some new music so I pointed him at my external hard drive. 10 minutes later: "Cool, I just copied 40GB over from your Music directory!". I get that he's not going to listen to all of it but I can't imagine putting much value in a massive music dump - like, there's a load of rubbish on there as well as good stuff, where do you start?

My 30gig ipod was usually full to bursting point, I didn't use shuffle very often but you never know when you're going to want to listen to something.

This has become less of an issue in the era of Spotify and smartphones, obviously. There's a fraction of the amount of music on my phone.

I mean it was all stuff I liked, I never bothered to just copy a load of music off someone's hard drive.

A friend tried to "trade music" with me like this last year and I was like, are you friggin kidding me, I am not going to copy this hard drive of your "cool tunes" and then dump the same from my library. I'm gonna give you a handful of albums you might like.

Her man ended up hooking her up with a turntable/stereo setup at her new place and I've loaned her a few albums on vinyl and she's listened to the few things I selected that she might like a hell of a lot more. Very few people actually can just throw some large chunk of digital music into a random playlist or whatever and really get much out of it.

"you never know when you're going to want to listen to something" is kind of a misreading of the opportunities that technology has given us by making access to a lot of recorded music omnipresent

so much at our fingertips and the situation we feel it best addresses is instant gratification of our whims

kind of wonder if there's an overlap between that and the people who think they need their whole music collection on their ipod with them at all times

I did not know until I had completely filled my ipod that it was possible to choose which files went on it. I rarely have more than 10 albums at a time on there now. It occasionally sucks when I'm somewhere away from my computer and I'm not in the mood for any of the albums I'd "packed" for the day, but it beats the hell out of having to scroll past hundreds of albums and artists that I don't want to listen to at all and may not have listened to in years.

instant gratification of my whims is AWESOME and i wish for more of it

I quite like delay of gratification and the heightened state it can induce, actually.

To travel hopefully is better than to arrive, and all that.

maybe that's why you give a shit about bits of plastic

lol

lex's essentialism/New Criticism model of music is so weird coming from him imo

i don't have a model of music! stop ~putting me into boxes~

"you never know when you're going to want to listen to something" is kind of a misreading of the opportunities that technology has given us by making access to a lot of recorded music omnipresent

so much at our fingertips and the situation we feel it best addresses is instant gratification of our whims

This is kind of a misreading of what I said. I mean obviously the best thing is access to huge swathes of music you'd previously have had to hunt around for months for. But the joy of wanting to listen to a song on the way home from a pub and knowing you have it with you should not be underestimated.

Cosign on the pub-walk.

Lex, I've got huge amounts of time for you, but you do an awesome job of caricaturing yourself, never mind anyone else putting you in boxes!

disclaimers: 1. this probably isn't the best thread to put this but i don't know where else to post it, 2. it seems like an obvious point so it's probably been mentioned before but i haven't seen anyone else say it, and 3. i am not arguing that spotify has a "fair" payment scheme, because that's a complicated question and i don't know what fair payment for music is exactly.

but

in the ongoing discussion about how musicians get paid for music (in the grizzly bear thread re: nitsuh's article, for example) i keep seeing comparisons of how much musicians get paid for spotify streams vs. how much they get paid for radio play. this irritates me because it's a false equivalency:
* a spotify play is a play to one person. a radio play is a play to thousands of people. so of course you get paid more for a radio play
* almost all of the musicians on spotify are musicians who aren't getting radio play anyways, and wouldn't have been even 20 years ago, aside from maybe occasional college radio play.

basically, please stop talking about spotify and radio payments like they are somehow equivalent and comparable

yeah but you could make the argument that spotify payments should be more because it's on-demand and you can listen to it as often as you want

and the musician gets paid each time you listen to it

To define the amount of money you get from Spotify as "payment" sort of stretches the definition of that term

it's a consideration