Frank Sinatra: Champ or chump

His "evasion of the issue": "his" songs do, "his" movies don't (in rock terms, of course, he was auteur of neither); since he — suave not-quite-indie Capitol, in his name — debuted the alb as platform for conceptual continuity (the song-choice/running order as one level of content, the hep designed sleeve-photo as another), the former lack shd matter most — except that the sleeve imago plugged right into the persona he was working on his movies, so the latter anti-lack exerts unexampled sub-lunary influence, and turns the whole deal around.

Hence classic. And (what's more) classic rock classic.

Re: Sun-Yi. Excuse me, she was a total grown-up... Mia (and Frank) were not, here. (And that's rock too...)

since tom is asking for recommendations, the trio of only the lonely, where are you? and in the wee small hours of the morning are tough to beat when it comes to depression, misery, and heartbreak. oh, and his version of "if you go away" is the birth of goth.

FRANK SINATRA IS COOL. Not because I particularly like his music (quite a lot of his hits all sound exactly alike to me), but because he drinks and is a dirty rotten scoundrel and is a mafioso. That makes him hella cool. I have always wanted to buy something of his but I'm too lazy to walk up to the easy listening/vocal classics section of Tower. And like I said earlier, that whole kick ass talking instead of singing thing.

"in some ways afraid": yes, but also in some ways NOT afraid. I mean, LESS afraid in his films — he took way daring roles (junkie/ assassin etc etc) for a matinee idol in the Eisenhower era — than he ever was in his music.

I know the Manchurian Candidate wasn't in the Ike era, but Sinatra's 50s lasted well into everyone else's 60s.

Search: 'Blue Skies' (live); 'I Fall In Love Too Easily'; 'The Girl That I Marry';' 'Autumn In New York'.

Disagree with Ally, naturally: to my ears he 'sings' (as well as 'talking' brilliantly - yes, that's true), but I don't like the mob / masculine / womanizer / whatever image bollox.

Stevie is on the money in trying to complicate things in gender terms - good stuff - though I'm surprised to hear that you prefer Frank's readings to Ella's.

Obviously the Songbook - as ST says - is the point here. We really need to talk about the Songbook too - the Song, not the Singers.

As an actor = He definitely had his moments. Like in the very entertaining "Manchurian Candidate."

My review of a 1977 UK-only double Reprise retrospective.

http://sinatrafamily.com/forum/29275-Frank-Sinatra-s-1963-Playboy-Magazine-Interview.htm

Playboy: From what you've said, it seems that we'll have to learn something of what makes you tick as a man in order to understand what motivates you as an entertainer. Would it be all right with you if we attempt to do just that -- by exploring a few of the fundamental beliefs which move and shape your life?

Sinatra: Look, pal, is this going to be an ocean cruise or a quick sail around the harbor? Like you, I think, I feel, I wonder. I know some things, I believe in a thousand things, and I'm curious about a million more. Be more specific.

Playboy: All right, let's start with the most basic question there is: Are you a religious man? Do you believe in God?

Sinatra: Well, that'll do for openers. I think I can sum up my religious feelings in a couple of paragraphs. First: I believe in you and me. I'm like Albert Schweitzer and Bertrand Russell and Albert Einstein in that I have a respect for life -- in any form. I believe in nature, in the birds, the sea, the sky, in everything I can see or that there is real evidence for. If these things are what you mean by God, then I believe in God. But I don't believe in a personal God to whom I look for comfort or for a natural on the next roll of the dice. I'm not unmindful of man's seeming need for faith; I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers or a bottle of Jack Daniel's. But to me religion is a deeply personal thing in which man and God go it alone together, without the witch doctor in the middle. The witch doctor tries to convince us that we have to ask God for help, to spell out to him what we need, even to bribe him with prayer or cash on the line. Well, I believe that God knows what each of us wants and needs. It's not necessary for us to make it to church on Sunday to reach Him. You can find Him anyplace. And if that sounds heretical, my source is pretty good: Matthew, Five to Seven, The Sermon on the Mount.

Playboy: You haven't found any answers for yourself in organized religion?

Sinatra: There are things about organized religion which I resent. Christ is revered as the Prince of Peace, but more blood has been shed in His name than any other figure in history. You show me one step forward in the name of religion and I'll show you a hundred retrogressions. Remember, they were men of God who destroyed the educational treasures at Alexandria, who perpetrated the Inquisition in Spain, who burned the witches at Salem. Over 25,000 organized religions flourish on this planet, but the followers of each think all the others are miserably misguided and probably evil as well. In India they worship white cows, monkeys and a dip in the Ganges. The Moslems accept slavery and prepare for Allah, who promises wine and revirginated women. And witch doctors aren't just in Africa. If you look in the L.A. papers of a Sunday morning, you'll see the local variety advertising their wares like suits with two pairs of pants.

The Sinatra-phile writer Will Friedwald has suggested the possibility that that "interview" was actually entirely ghost-written by a Reprise copywriter named Mike Shore

hahahhahaha lol that would be a massive fail of a ghostwrite then

Do you mean because it doesn't sound like Sinatra's voice, or because the religious comments may have caused him a backlash?

Good thread: Frank Sinatra: S/D

yeah because it doesn't sound like anything i would have expected - i just assumed it was a matter of people just generally being more educated and thoughtful back then durrrr

Yeah I agree, it sounds ludicrous. The thing is, there's plenty of actual Sinatra interviews you can listen to and none of them sound like that Playboy interview. He wasn't stupid, of course, but he didn't speak like that

is the idea supposed to be that the dude wrote it based on talking to sinatra, or is it literally just fabricated

In the original intro to the interview, Playboy's copy states that Sinatra sat down for the interview over several sessions lasting a week. This, according to the alternate story, is completely false. Instead what happened was Mike Shore wrote the entire thing out of whole cloth, submitted it to Sinatra (via Franks's personal photographer William Woodfield) and signed over the copyright to Frank.

This latter story is endorsed by Michael Freedwald, who wrote the Sinatra bio All the Way, and is also described in detail in Kitty Kelley's His Way.

grr I meant Michael Freedland. Will Friedwald also seems to believe the story.

that's pretty fascinated. there are some sinatra-isms in that interview - he did seem to have a tendency to inject really weird, leftfield metaphors into conversation - but yeah nobody really speaks like that.

fascinatING argh

Mike Shore wasn't a nobody, he knew Sinatra well and wrote ad copy for Reprise Records, so he knew his way around ring-a-ding talk. Incidentally he also knew Jack Ruby and in fact was the one who suggested to Ruby that he hire Melvin Belli as his attorney after the Oswald murder.

Sinatra does strike me as someone who would be studious about not ending sentences with prepositions.

If it hasn't been talked about elsewhere, this Ian Penman piece in the LRB is gorgeous:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n13/ian-penman/swoonatra

Yeah

Wow. That is a great, great piece of writing. Thanks!

For real, thanks Ian

When you've lived and loved the way Frank has, you know what life's about

Documentary on HBO pretty good

saw some of his paintings yesterday

http://www.nypl.org/events/exhibitions/sinatra-american-icon

I wish Frank had sung a version of "Kid Charlemagne"