VICE vs. Phish

I think this article is funny.

http://noisey.vice.com/read/phish-has-been-a-band-for-thirty-years-now-and-they-have-sucked-the-whole-time

And the follow up:

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/what-happens-when-you-make-fun-of-phish-on-the-internet

a fb friend wrote this on the article:

Curious as to how you feel qualified to refute Jon Pareles, the acclaimed New York Times music, when he writes about Phish's "remarkable musicianship" just a couple of year ago. What is most unfortunate is all of the responses that your drivel has garnered from quality, thinking people. Let's hope this is your only 15 minutes of fame, and that you find a way to look at the good that is revealed right before your eyes.

Wow VICE, taking a brave and bold anti-Phish stance in 2013, kudos.

phish is ok enough. w/e who gives a solitary fuck either way.

this guy's written about insane clown posse before, hasn't he

http://cdn.obrag.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/shooting-fish-in-a-barrel.jpg

Wow VICE, taking a brave and bold anti-Phish stance in 2013, kudos.

― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Saturday, February 2, 2013 4:04 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But yes, the world would be a better place without either of these things.

To be fair, Vice recently came out against people liking Skrewdriver, so they're really evolving rapidly in the hypocritical morality department.

fuck phish, but this guy admits to having listened to them in the past? And then has the nerve to diss Wings?

i am so upset about this

j/k

i am actually neutral here. my position is qualitatively colorless, tasteless, odorless. quantitavely zero. zilch. nada.

no winners, no losers. nothing lost, nothing gained.

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/23/08/2230891_f12a0b4c.jpg

everything the same as it was. the same as it is. the same as it will be.

http://www.petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2011/08/sf2_mini.jpg

http://www.petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2011/08/sf5_mini.jpg

http://www.gratefulweb.com/sites/default/files/img_9343.jpg

i thought Vice wd've run with the kiddy fiddlers angle

If only Vice hid the article under the soap, the Phish fans would have been oblivious.

I refuse to believe that this dude didn't know how the fanbase would react. they are, like, notorious for waging the same hilariously butthurt jihad every time someone writes one of these hit pieces—in terms of predictability, I would rank the phenomenon somewhere between "Old Faithful erupts" and "the tide goes out"

I was just going through my itunes an hour ago and was once again confronted by the 20 or so Phish ahows that have been sitting in there unlistened to for at least a couple years.

This is a stupid article, but I also stopped following (and for the most part listening to) Phish for some good reasons.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/weird/NATL-DUI-Suspect-Huffs-on-Balloons-in-Bizarre-Standoff-With-Police-189415321.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_CTBrand

I'm not going to read this article. I've never heard Phish before but i know it is the norm for demographic to hate Phish with a passion as equally as I should embrace anything Thurston Moore does. The news that they are turning 30 is somewhat cool, and I have to give them props. It's not my thing but if someone is spending 30 years of their life making music well good for them.

i feel like phish is such a niche act that if you're exposing yourself to enough of their music to get annoyed you have no one to blame but yourself. http://4thletter.net/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/SAEmoticons/emot-colbert.png

The follow up article is annoying, as if the original article wasn't designed to get that exact reaction

Phish are not the worst band in the world. Not as long as the Disco Biscuits exist.

Jamillia I wanna feel ya up
and lift your skirt right over your head
other guys they wanna steal ya
but in the end you'll sleep in my bed

Making Easy Money Pimping Hos In Style.
The only one from Memphis is at Graceland.
Making Easy Money Pimping Hos In Style.
It's good to have you in the band.

Of course, Phish had "Meatstick" which was when I got off the bus.

Time for the meatstick,
Bury the meatstick,
Take out the meatstick time
Whoa, shocks my brain

God is there any writing less interesting than smartass dudes flexing their thesaurus at Phish. Would rather listen to Phish for a million years than be subjected to another of these smug pieces

Maybe a bunch of people will start listening to Phish to spite this guy, and later on it will come out that this was just the best possible way to market Phish to hipsters.

hey, they came around to the Dead

I always wonder if Phish is good - I hated on the Dead like a dumbshit forever and now they're a top 5 band. idk somehow I don't see this happening w/Phish but Phish >>>> people who think they sound clever saying "this sucks" forever

probly true but i get this horrible self-congratulatory vibe off Phish that is nothing like the Dead, like the former are some kind of meta jam band.

also, y'know, the child abuse.

no prob with Phish as a phenom but I WAS THERE in the 90s Horizons of Rock Developing Everywhere & had ok fun at the shows but the records were always a slog: jokey tunes, good timey music like the happier 60s American bands, a little Lovin Spoonful or the Rascals in spirit but without the heart. like being at a party with a bunch of mediocre theatre people who are trying to turn the charm to 11 but it grates

"Bouncing Around the Room" is a good song though

also, y'know, the child abuse.

Wait, what?

i tried to get into phish bc of the whole "i eventually got into the dead" thing and it didn't take as well, but i think the "bouncing around the room" that opens a live one is majorly gorgeous and i guess it condenses the appeal of phish for me into one performance

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/phishs-mike-gordon-arrested-20030819

Oh jesus. EW.

Aero, my wife was mega into phish when we met and still is a fan, but not as much anymore (she went to this show & some druggies basically abandoned their kid & she watched this kid for along time because they were the campsite next door, left a bad taste obv)

But anyway, this article sucks and I have a bunch of great ppl besides my wife in my life that are phish fans, but they are super terrible and not really all that much like the dead....and I've tried the albums and listening to ”classic” shows

thought this was going to be a poll

no-brainer vote for phish obv (i have never heard a phish song)

musically, i've always got this sub-zappa vibe from phish rather than the dead. rhythm section at least is nothing at all like the dead. same with aero though, i'm always kind of like, what if they're actually awesome? but i've generally disliked everything i've heard.

This band blows but ill still ride for "Bouncing Around the Room"

Phish are private college Police fans that got too into drugs

Euler and Whiney otm: album version of "Bouncing Around the Room" is kind of like the best Graceland outtake ever. I kind of like a bunch of other stuff from that album (Lawn Boy) but you def have to prepare for some flimsy Zappa whimsy

srs lols @ everyone repping for bouncin

is that the track from that simpsons episode

gabbneb likes phish

Mike Gordon followed my female friend from a Phish show to a Dungen show and from our brief interaction all I really recall is his slimy, limp handshake.

he's always looked a mite cadaverous

for tyler and aero and people who are tossing the idea of trying to enjoy phish around in their minds because of the grateful dead references:

I know that one of the things that won aero over to the Grateful Dead was their fecund early 70s period of classic songwriting. Phish really don't have any candidates for the great american songbook. Like the dead, they employ the services of an outside lyricist for most of their songs. Their primary mode of lyric-writing is a kind of cartoonish goofy stoner twee. There are times when this really, really works and times when it comes off as half-hearted or just ridiculous. It may be largely up to the listener.

well but the main thing is the playing-together aspect. I listen to more live Dead than studio Dead, it's how they make the songs stretch and "go places" that counts. that's where I imagine I might be able to get into Phish. but the main thing about Phish is that people hating on them sound p. much exactly like old people hating on rap. boring, smug, self-satisfied, awful. when you read/hear people hating on Phish, you just instinctively wanna like Phish so people won't confuse you with those people in love with their ability to hate Phish.

OK, gotcha. So, one way to get a quick sampling of their improvisational side is through http://blog.phish.net/. There is a recurring feature on there called "Mystery Jam Mondays" where they'll play a brief segment of mid-jam improvisation that readers try and guess about and win. They pick stuff from all sorts of different songs throughout the bands career, so you get a really good spread. This might be an interesting way to examine it.

The other way would be to listen to listen to a couple big well-known picks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysr7yRFB2QA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKO_7CIQ04I

http://vimeo.com/32532335

Phish really don't have any candidates for the great american songbook. Like the dead, they employ the services of an outside lyricist for most of their songs. Their primary mode of lyric-writing is a kind of cartoonish goofy stoner twee.

Heavily OTM.

well but the main thing is the playing-together aspect

Aero this is something Phish excels at, but knowing what kind of GD you like, don't think it's really the same "goes places" flavor-- Phish never had that weird, formless not-together-but-still-together jam feel. Feel like the easiest comparison is '77-'78 GD jams = most of Phish, where the jams move around a lot, but everything progresses in much tighter fashion. Like, the transitions w/in GD jams are so goddamn loosey-goosey, you feel like no one is really driving the thing; w/ Phish, you can one person begin to stray, and you can hear the other guys react.

Still, some of my favorite all-time mixes from yore that I still listen to are these hour-long comps some Phish fans made that just cut/paste/mix different 5/10/15-minute chunks of jams together into kind of a half-assed, fanfic Grayfolded dealie. Basically cuts out everything that's awful and zeroes in on the amazing stuff.

But yeah, this is just some A+/F trolling, depending on how much joy you get from defensive Phish fan indignation.

aero otm, but dude, phish really are terrible. and i say that as a guy who also avoided the dead for years.

fuck phish, but this guy admits to having listened to them in the past? And then has the nerve to diss Wings?

so otm

Still, some of my favorite all-time mixes from yore that I still listen to are these hour-long comps some Phish fans made that just cut/paste/mix different 5/10/15-minute chunks of jams together into kind of a half-assed, fanfic Grayfolded dealie. Basically cuts out everything that's awful and zeroes in on the amazing stuff.

God help me this sounds awesome

PHish were a load of fun in the Junta/Lawn Boy days. Growing up not far from their homebase we'd see them now and again, and it seemed really weird that they broke out of the Vermont club scene. I've never understood how the "goofy covers and strange originals at a friend's house vibe" made it into stadiums.

xp Here's one, made from '03/'04 stuff, that is mixed pretty well.

Ha and another one here-- feel like this one is a little more fun just because mixes up stuff from like '92 - '00.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/phishs-mike-gordon-arrested-20030819

― Mordy, Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:25 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seems a little o_O that this isn't even on his wikipedia page?

Probably because the charges were dismissed:

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/69005/mike-gordon-cleared-of-child-endangerment

Still fishy (sorry!), though.

That Mike Gordon thing always weirded me out because I remember seeing him walking around before a show in 1994 and he had an unsettling creepy guy in sweatpants vibe that stuck with me long afterward. Also "a leader of a Hell's Angels chapter" and "not gentle with the sensitive areas of the rock star's body" is extremely o_O

I'm still really conflicted about Phish, cause objectively there is a lot of awful there, then again nostalgia.

Gordon was always definitely the weirdest one in the band. I remember the newsletters always had a few paragraphs of his strange, kinda crappy, short stories (examples here. He's just got a wacky artistic temperament. I can totally imagine that if a 9-year-old kid were a person who was backstage at a Dead show at 1 in the morning, Gordon would just be like, "hey, I'm taking weird pictures. join me." in a way that could get totally misunderstood by a biker gang.

http://www.mike-gordon.com/multimedia/snapshots/pc/candid09.jpg

http://www.mike-gordon.com/multimedia/snapshots/pc/candid14.jpg

http://www.mike-gordon.com/multimedia/snapshots/pc/newhaircut1.jpg

idk, trolling phish fans seems like a pretty bulletproof way to get ad impressions on your blog

Trey is probably one of the least interesting guitarists

Aero, I understand your compulsion, but this band just sucks

Also their tones suck ass, you like that shambling horsby reggae envelope filter yamaha synth piano envelope filter dead so who knows

you like that shambling horsby reggae envelope filter yamaha synth piano envelope filter dead so who knows

excuse me! I am a '72 > '68/'69 > '77 man!

the lyrics are pretty unforgivable

My favorite:

I woke the witch with reverence reserved for serpents, snails, and slugs
I pulled the witch from out the ditch and turned to face the furry thugs
The sheep they smiled with teeth agleam
The weapons in their hooves revolved
I detected a prostatic ream
I gulped and felt my loins dissolve!!!

well I was on board until we got to the prostatic ream

Yeah, but have you ever gotten to the prostatic ream on acid?

I must point out re: Dead vs Phish that not only did the dead have SONGS they also had a SINGER in Jerry. The guys in Phish, while technically fine, lack compelling voices. I'd actually rather listen to an evening of Bob Weir than Trey, and that's saying quite a lot.

I must point out re: Dead vs Phish that not only did the dead have SONGS they also had a SINGER in Jerry. The guys in Phish, while technically fine, lack compelling voices. I'd actually rather listen to an evening of Bob Weir than Trey, and that's saying quite a lot.

Ha ha ha ha ha - I remember commenting to an editor at Relix (who agreed with me btw) that one of the Dead's most amazing accomplishments was managing to have up to four singers in the band at any given time, none of whom could sing.

^^^

i've always really liked jerry's voice, it's probably the best thing about the dead, he sounds so tired & sad

Jerry sings well with a beat-up voice - singing isn't your voice but what you do with it, Jerry's use of his voice is very good imo

Yeah, his voice is cool. He sounded genuinely like somebody you would hear on an old blues or folk '78.

kinda like clarence ashley or someone

from my experience phish "phans" are poor souls stuck in the 90s. there's this weird breed of nu-phish types into bands like disco biscuits and lotus, less soppy braind shroom heads and more white guy with dreadlocks selling ectasy cut with meth to 18 year old alcoholic lost souls... a little more gutter, i guess. i'd like to see an expose on those guys... probably as much as i want to listen to the music, actually.

Exactly, Jerry was a folkie, came out of bluegrass, blues, old-time. I'm not saying he was Elvis, but he had an interesting, compelling voice out of the post-Dylan DIY school. He's a guy you could listen to for an evening. Trey is a bland, boring singer.

Another point for the Dead: Phil never played slap-bass

Guys, the Dead don't need any points vs. Phish.

jerry's singing on some of his earlier solo stuff is sweet

http://www.thebarnpresents.com/wp-content/uploads/JAMBANDFANS1.gif

idgi, tbh

A lot of work for a cheap Moe joke.

Still, I lol'ed.

otto for gov't mule is kinda perfect imo

never knew otto was a lefty

and more white guy with dreadlocks selling ectasy cut with meth to 18 year old alcoholic lost souls... a little more gutter, i guess. i'd like to see an expose on those

This is so depressingly true. I went to my first Phish show in about 14 years last summer and there was this really weird and frighteningly large contingent of what I'd call Phish-heads gone gutter punk.

the impression I got from 'Slouching Towards Bethlehem' was that hippies always were gutter-punks

LOVE "the weapons in their hooves revolved"

Phish are terrible

VICE is terrible

if forced to choose, I pick the cold embrace of death

I don't know "Bouncing Around the Room" but I don't mind "You Enjoy Myself", at least the instrumental bits. Has a little bit of a Yes vibe at times.

snarky privileged kids vs. hippy privileged kids. DILEMMA

xp: You Enjoy Myself is definitely the Pick Only One from this band.

Yeah, I listened to it after reading this thread and it still sounds really good. I don't mind Junta, actually.