Article Response: Stylus on Electroclash

hah.

And the idea that a 140+ BPM techno track would come across as meek is truly absurd.

and apparently this guy is really unfamiliar with the bpm's that currently constitute d&b, gabba, hard acid, tech house, etc. etc. etc....

why is ilm so full (indirectly or otherwise) of reactionary rhetoric today?

There's an ex-hipster guy in my office in his forties ("I saw Talking Heads in college, the Buildings and Food tour, I think") I caught him at the xerox machine asked "so which Magazine album should I buy?" We had a good chat. 'Postpunk--bringing the generations together!' [/offtopic]

Also I simply can't fathom what he says about Adult. -- completely lost me from there on.

One good thing he gets at: the idea of electro currently being this blank slate, where the genre revolves around sound and process and this leaves people free to pack it with whatever sort of "content" they want to. This is why I like a lot of it. It was Fat Truckers' "Superbike" that did this to me: perfectly new-electro, right at home on the mixes, but it's this big frugging go-go thing ... Other mini-genres just aren't producing as many of those little surprises for me, that sense of immediacy and freedom.

gurgle?
m.

Nabisco - I think if there's a central point it's that electroclash fosters ambivalence like my own, with its lack of centralization/uniformity. As far as my "taste line" is concerned, what I like about electroclash (when I like it) is its adventurousness and its cleverness. It's true, I like Ladytron and Felix because they're so much more than just electroclash, but I think that they contribute greatly to the scene. I get the feeling when I listen to them that I'm not listening to people who are just in it for the fad, but listening to people who make music because they love it.

And don't forget my praise for Miss Kittin. I don't think that you can really say that I don't "like anything that constitutes the genre," because to me, she pretty much does just that.

Anyway, thanks for reading and I appreciate the comments.

Rich

I dunno: I've been having problems lately with this sense that critics are increasingly scared of being anything more than ambivalent about any new process, and I think this is precisely what creates passing trends and resists actual change -- e.g. no one will write about electroclash without the obligatory shot at the Williamsburg hipsters and their skinny ties, no one wants to appear to actually like anything in anything but the most guarded "I suppose these select tracks are quite nice" kind of way. Maybe I just didn't respond well to that ambivalence as a central point. (Plus the Adult thing biased me from the beginning.) (I did like the article, though.)

Also yeah, I didn't mean to claim that you were actually working from an "I only like things outside the genre" standpoint, but I'm still seeing that in there, Miss Kittin notwithstanding. I guess my question is: why the assumption that everything that's not big and notable or isn't pulling on other genres is necessarily trend cash-in pre-fab crap? (I think that was truer of punk than it was of electroclash, but you rarely see people going on about how Spizz or whoever was a soulless hack: you see them picking up comps of punk also-rans and saying "every single thing on here is a total lost gem." Why wouldn't that happen with any given electro comp? Why exactly shouldn't it seem that way now?)

So I guess I'm just a little put off by the guardedness, the desire of so many people these days to immediately cut every new development down to size based on some larger genre-ambition. I can't speak to the albums, but when it comes to mixes and comps, plenty of the run-of-mill material does plenty for me, in context. And I think a lot of writers have made the mistake of taking this genre too seriously to realize that -- getting very chin-stroky and assuming the genre has these grand conceptual ambitions, whereas on the ground it seems as much of a big lark as punk (sort of) did.

I'm still trying to figure out whether listeners are really "buying into" the whole electroclash look and music or whether they're retaining a level of detachment and, again, hyper self-awareness. Those aspects interest me the most about the music, more so than, say, the Strokes and White Stripes which seem to be about truly buying into something wholesale (it never works... do we still "believe" in grunge, fer instance?). If people start getting "serious" about their Flock of Seagulls haircuts and ripped shirts, oh boy, but if it's all done with a firm tongue in cheek I think the music might have some resonance. Just a thought.

P.S. I've found that Correct Use of Soap is the best Magazine album to start with. Catchy and pretty coherent.

Connecting the dots perhaps (or 're-'stating the obvious!) "knowledgeable listeners" = people to say "been there done that." Is it 'ok' for Spizz to be praised in retrospect because they were at least prepping for the mountain while the flag was being planted? All of these new 'fads' are pretty much discarded as retro/revivalist. (by extension kitsch to some in this case, though I don't agree myself.)

Curious thing re: electroclash and ILM. Maybe I'm not paying proper attention, but nobody seems to professes to like it except in the face of reactionary criticsim like this or Ott's PFM Fspooner review. Most threads that start with someone enthusing about electroclash seem to mostly contain dismissals of it.

Connecting the dots perhaps (or 're-'stating the obvious!) "knowledgeable listeners" = people to say "been there done that"? Is it 'ok' for Spizz to be praised in retrospect because they were at least prepping for the mountain while the flag was being planted? All of these new 'fads' are pretty much discarded as retro/revivalist. (by extension kitsch to some in this case, though I don't agree myself.)

Curious thing re: electroclash and ILM. Maybe I'm not paying proper attention, but nobody seems to professes to like it except in the face of reactionary criticsim like this or Ott's PFM Fspooner review. Most threads that start with someone enthusing about electroclash seem to mostly contain dismissals of it.

I've noticed the same thing. I keep asking people if they like the music, other than from some sort of detached critical stance (like mine... heh). I was at this electroclash type show a couple months back in Chicago, and it was interesting to see everyone with the same sort of "who's here? is this for real?" expression which was prolly on my face. I'll be very curious to see Larry T's Electroclash tour when it comes here to Detroit next month for the exact same reason. I am very curious to see if a scene that, in truth, is a "media creation" (sorry to sound like a Republican) can exist on its own. Or what form it'll take. Etc. Etc.

But mostly yeah: I can go get a mix of this and have really no idea what gems of ideas are going to bounce out of it -- and I can think of some other genres where that's the case, but none where what jumps out jumps out with the immediacy and the surprise and humor of this new electro.

That's Futurism, no? Have you found any other comps that you enjoy as much, Nits*h?

I'm going to the Brooklyn one (which actually isn't at Luxx), and though I'm going into it with an open mind I'm anticipating some suckage (I'm not as impressed with Peaches or Chicks on Speed as the rest of the world seems to be, and even though Wynne Greenwood a/k/a Tracy and the Plastics has a cute high-concept/low-budget "videonics" thing accompanying her mediocre music, it's really a bit one-joke and slapdash).

Why am I going, then? I wanna be proven wrong, at least about this particular crop of artists. And this lineup beats the hell out of 80 percent of the stuff on Larry Tee's Electroclash comp, which just felt kind of drab and unerotic. I've been trying to "defend" this music for a while, but it's easy to be ambivalent when half the stuff you've heard is good, half is bad, and much of the good stuff "isn't really electroclash" (e.g. Ladytron and Felix da Housecat).

Aaron is wrong re: Magazine, but I would say that.

Ditto. Much appreciated. I can buy the punk analogy, in that early punk was about freedom from the restrictions of musicality (as in 'anyone can play this music') and theoretically today's electroclash is about freedom from the restrictions of technology (as in 'anyone can afford the equipment to play this music'). It's interesting, though, that punk was also a reaction against mainstream culture while electroclash seems to embrace it. Although with a similiar playfulness/irony/detachment that made late-'70s punk, at its best, timeless music.

I wanna be proven wrong, at least about this particular crop of artists.

Me too. I think now is the most interesting moment for this music, because it isn't quite clear which path it'll take. Hence everybody saying "this music isn't bound to last" and critics not wanting to come out 100% for/against it... just cuz they don't want to be wrong.

Any ill will I can muster toward this scene -- aside from the standard "most of it's horrid, some of it moves me" line that works for any other scene/style -- comes down to age. But, if I can get over the fact that certain Mogwai fans will never buy a Talk Talk record, surely I can quit giving a shit that some of the heads will never hear John Foxx's Metamatic or realize what the term electro meant in the early '80s. If I defend pop music against those who argue pointlessly that it won't be relevant in ten years (as I often do), I would surely be a hypocrite for disdaining this scene for being what it is.
Aaron is wrong re: Magazine, but I would say that.

It _is_ very strange that for the first time I can remember the first wave of a retro scene. I guess that means that I'm now older than the 20-year-recycle-cycle. *big sigh* My initial reaction was to say that people just wanted to take part in some sort of idealized version of music from the past (definitely reinforced by seeing Desperately Seeking Susan and Valley Girl on cable a few weeks ago), but now I'll give it a chance. Although I must say that the new Ladytron album disappointed me (and I actually _liked_ 604!)... it's just not sexy or produced well.

So which Magazine album is the best to start with, Mr. Andy? Do I know you? :)

I guess my ultimate point here is that there's a difference between ambivalence and indecision. I didn't want to come at readers all more-knowledgeable-than-thou, attempting definitive prose on the subject because I think that's off-putting (imagine what this thread would be like if I had done that). Often that type of writing (and I find this a lot in music journalism) has so much more to do with the writer than the subject. I'd rather sort of meditate on something, present highlights and lowlights and prove that the subject is worth the time a piece took to write (and read) than carve out its place in modern music and declare its worth. I'm not sure that that's ever really an appropriate course of action, but if it is, it's surely after the fad has faded so a writer can reap the benefits of hindsight.

I'm sorry if this is tangential. I don't mean to get all Tori Amos on your ass. You make a great point when you ask, "why the assumption that everything that's not big and notable or isn't pulling on other genres is necessarily trend cash-in pre-fab crap?" It's true that in some cases, this might be an unfair assumption, but what I feel from a lot of electroclash artists is perfect contentedness to just march in place. Acts who aren't taking advantage of electroclash's broad sonic palette just aren't that exciting to me (with the exception of the uber-clever).

Scott: Futurism is still my favorite, something about the slickness it moves into at points. But maybe when I get home I'll sort through my downloads and such and do a top 5!

Rich: Okay, yeah, I follow you completely. Like I said, I guess my complaints were a little less about your article -- which I liked -- and more of a straw-man "what critics do" sort of response. (And the whole thing where I like Adult and don't like DMX Crew ... I think he has some absolutely terrific songs, but he directs his humor or his irony or whatever not at the idea of a scene but at his own music, like he refuses to take these really great songs seriously enough.)

You're right about the marching in place. I think you can even be ambivalent about that, weirdly: some of it really does seem like filler -- acts where you hope they at least have great clothes, as they're not putting much effort into the music -- but then a lot of the marching-in-place stuff has a sense of great fun to it, marching in place very stylishly.

I'm interested that now two people have said something about material not being sufficiently "sexy." What does everybody think about that? Is it trying to be sexy / should it be sexy / is it better if it's sexy? I've never really thought about this -- the issue of sexiness doesn't really spring to mind for me with this stuff. But I do find some of it sexy.

This is only a concern for me if the artist is using sexual language or using a tone of voice that suggests sex... and when it's not conveyed convincingly, it just feels like empty would-be provocation. Sex is a fine subject and all, but it's so overdone that it's just NOT shocking, and part of me wishes the emphasis would be less on provocation and more on actual titillation (or, if the artist is conveying "detached," I wish it would feel more emotionally honest than the typical "melodramatically asexual" voice I keep hearing).

And the fact that this scene is doing well helps fulfill that potential. I don't like to compare today to yesterday but it's an instinctive thing for me to do -- as much as I want to combat it. It's a kneejerk thing for me to think "Haha this youngster loves Adult. and thinks they're gods but I bet he/she has never heard Fad Gadget or DAF." Years ago I played a Suede fan a bunch of David Bowie and Roxy Music because she had never heard either. I was a big fan of Suede at the time as well, but I became flustered when she was nonplussed by two of their inspirations. Her argument: "Why am I obligated to like these groups? They might be great but they are not making music now that speaks to people of my age." She clearly took an approach to music that I was unfamiliar with until then. Since then I've become more sympathetic to that mindset.

How is this different from regular pop/MTV/youth culture?

By which I mean... detachment is fine, but act the part a little better. Miss Kittin is amazing at this -- when you first hear her, she sounds very mechanical and dispassionate, but upon closer investigation you can hear the motivation behind her bored suck-my-dick electro-posturing (she's trying to hide the sadness in her heart, the ennui, the Weltschmerz).

Like I said in the essay, the three compilations/DJ mixes that I find essential are Tangent 2002: Disco Nouveau, Felix da Housecat's Excursions and I-F's Mixed Up in the Hague, Vol. 1 (as a lesson on the Italo footsteps to electroclash). Tiga's American Gigolo is surprisingly soulful at times, both of Miss Kittin's mixes are pretty good and Larry Tee's Electroclash comp. is best avoided.

Nitsuh, any rec's from you?

I love a lot of it ("Rippin Kittin" and "Frank Sinatra" most of all) but I think electroclash is more interesting in association and context with other styles and sounds - eg. the Michael Mayer/Miss Kittin/Ellen Allien *continuum* rather than the specific plot of land that is undeniably Miss Kittin's.

I remember this being a big complaint about the Orb, oddly enough (okay, your definition of 'great songs' may vary). Personally I don't see that as being a problem -- when done right it lets you relax a bit more with the music in ways.

I've always thought that J.G. Ballard is as much the godfather of the music as, say, Gary Numan or whoever... "Cars" and "Warm Leatherette" by the Normal pretty much quote "Crash" verbatim, afterall. The idea being that society or parts of society become so psychotic (Ballard's word) in terms of their sexuality that they completely blur the lines between technology (the car) and themselves and their bodies. Hence that sort of sex-as-repetition detachement. Anyway, I think that's where the sexy yet not emotionally honest, or at least fully "naked" (the characters in "Crash" renact their traumas as a sort of safety mechanism/protection) comes from.

I agree with Tim a bit, though my take is that I like the way electro has begun to seep into house a bit. Even lyrically, something like Shiny Disco Balls by Who Da Funk featuring Jessica Eve has an electro feel to it, though it's a house track.

Tom:Did that work for me with the Futurism piece or was I too late?

I agree here too - this is why the article is half-right in attempting to distinguish Felix Da Housecat. Obv. most of the best electro tracks have a whalloping big house beat under them. Ronan have you heard Sascha Funke's "When Will I Be Famous" (this is urgent and key!)?

X-Press 2's remix of Rippin Kittin is pretty great, also that "Sting Me Red" track with the vocalist from Shakedown-At Night, Terra-Deva, had this really pent up pressurised electrohouse thing going on, the sort of style that seems to be big with Subliminal Records at the moment anyway, starting a mix with this really rhythm heavy pressure container house and then oddly it climaxes with stuff which is less intense.

Possibly unsurprisingly, I like the idea of electro seeping more into pop -- which is a lot of why I'm so much bigger on Futurism than some of the other comps. Nonetheless, I'll happily second the Disco Nouveau recommendation, just not on those punk-immediacy grounds: it's the best of these comps I've heard on a dance level, with an interesting stress on the Italo aspect. (Note though that I have not yet heard Mixed Up in the Hague.)

The one I find really interesting, which I don't expect anyone to agree with me about, is that sort of cheapy Ministry of Sound This is Tech-Pop comp. For two reasons: (a) The MoS cash-in cheapo comp format somehow seems to work for this sort of thing (they throw the "smash hits" at you right at the start: "Emerge" then "14 Zero Zero"), and (b) I like how it leans really really heavy onto the pop side, not so much for the New Romantic stuff (though some of that works) but more for its seepages into straight up Euro or teen-pop (e.g. I think Circ's "Destroy She Said" is fantastic).

So, yeah, Disco Nouveau for depth and dance and an absolutely killer Adult track; Futurism for a great big selection and an Adult track mixed in too slow to work; This is Tech-Pop for all the glorious pop cheapness.

I heard part of Electrecord CD 2000 the other day (I'm pretty sure it was that one) and liked it a lot, as a sort of slanted, more tech-y spin off of this stuff; the Ersatz Audio Misery Loves Company comp gives you a little of the same thing (i.e., a label's unique variant on things) but isn't entirely satisfying (though it appears to be one of very few places to get anything by Kitbuilders).

Albumwise I've gotten the most out of Adult's Resuscitation, the Golden Boy + Miss Kittin Or, and Felix (Thee Glitz). On the other end I had that problem with the DMX Krew record (and I like Ween, for Christ's sake) and I found the Soviet record to be even more disappointing, like a blander version of Vitesse.

(Also it's important that A.R.E. Weapons totally bite me.)

I think the lesson here is that electro is more interesting as a virus than as a genre in and of itself. The consensus seems to be that a simple, great electro riff is fine in itself but probably not what everyone's after. We want electro + [X]. What's interesting is how much current (non-electro) music this stuff fits with; I wonder if electro came back because it fits in with a prevailing musical mood at the moment.

I might actually revise that pop statement: part of what I meant about being surprised and amused by the comps is that the use of the template really is sort of up in the air and not solidified yet, which makes it interesting to me. (This is also part of why I don't go for the albums quite as much, as there those decisions are already sort of made.)

But then is the insistence on the centrality of working class teenagers to new music simply a sign of being stuck in the past?

Also, I thought the Article was excellent, at least the sections on the music were. I skipped the parts about the 'scene' and the press coverage, since that aspect is of no interest to me. (I'm sure it's relevant to a NYCer, but I think here in Belgium the perspective is rather different, tho' I'm not sure I could articulate what exactly that perspective is. That we have fewer genres within dance music and different genre names for everything anyway might have something to do with it!)

Anyway, I would particularly single out Rich's comment about nu-electro's "involvement with melody" as important (or at least an important reason why I love this stuff.) Also the sign off line about the music being for enjoyment/consumption (dancing). Which was why I found the "no edge" comments about Adult. and F'spooner a bit of a red herring.

I agree with most of what nabisco says too.

Futurism is the best pan-camera selection of stuff, American Gigolo mixed by Tiga is a proper electro mix album which gets pretty kicking towards the end.

nitsuh is right(er than he thinks.) here is some On The Spot Anthropological Study done by yours truly in and around evergreen:

- yesterday, listening to 2 many dj's on crappy headphones that bled the sound into the outside world waiting for the bus, girl - college age, "emo" - asks "what are you listening to?" me: "oh, it's a mix cd." "what's the song?" it was "silver screen shower scene". "oh wow, i love all that electro stuff."

- a week or so ago, down in the little school convenience store apparently staffed only by snooty 18 year old indie kids, the indie girl with the mullet was listening to adult (i also saw copies of futurism and the felix album on the top of the sandwich fridge by the stereo.) (they were also listening to ludacris one day, but that's just them slumming.)

- the "electronic music" rack in rainy day (the ONLY decent record store here) is now at least 50% electro-related records or schtuff which has some tenuous connection.

i really do live in a daily hell that is an lcd soundsystem song.