Babes In Toyland vs Hole

Been checking out some of my fave old records from the 90s recently and been really digging the 1st couple of Babes In Toyland albums (Plus the ep in between) and the 1st 2 albums by Hole. I think those Babes In Toyland albums are better than Pretty On The Inside And I still think Fontanelle is better than Live Through This but I know I'm in the minority on ILM and no doubt it will set up the wrath of Alfred!

But who you you prefer? (I suppose you can split Hole into eras because plenty who like the 1st album hate what followed and then Celebrity Skin was definitely a move away from Live Through This too (still enjoyable though)
And were any of the later Babes In Toyland albums any good? I dont remember rating Nemesisters at the time but I've not heard it since.

ps didn't revive that other thread as it was mainly a s/d female rock bands that upset a lot of people.

I am woefully uneducated in Babes in Toyland. I guess that'll be my mission this week.

It's hard to imagine a better grunge album than Live Through This though, so you better not be fucking with me, Goalkeeper.

I never wanted someone to punch anyone in Babes In Toyland before.

So there's that.

Oh I know I'm in the total minority here. It really is good though. I'd hope that the Hole fans here might at least admits its at least almost as good.

btw I forgot to say that Courtney Love was in a very early line-up of Babes In Toyland

I never wanted someone to punch anyone in Babes In Toyland before.

So there's that.

Awww Poor Eric.

I like Pretty On The Inside alright, but seriously, Spanking Machine is unstoppable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjufvdq_1c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjufvdq_1c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeoM5UTKBbQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AdYpPd7IVQ

Note I did pick the shoutiest tracks

Babes In Toyland, though I'd take Dicknail over anything else by either.

haha posts totally in character etc

hah turrican couldnt stand babes in toyland when it was just played in plug.dj/ilxors

kinda really detest c. love but i'll have to go with hole, who do have a few songs i love.

babes in toyland one of my favourite groups from that period - fontanelle is all time for me. listened to it a fair bit recently, and still stands up.

liked the first hole album at the time, and listened to it at the same time as Fontanelle to make this specific comparison (I'm enjoying *this*, so let's try *this*) but they're v different within their subset. both focus their rage differently - f is v tight, poti is sloppy, which I like, and especially like on Clouds, that smeared, psychedelic comedown dirge, which closes the lp. Over the course of the album I find it all a bit hard to enjoy tho, gets a bit wearisome - possibly the breathlessness of some songs interspersed with the weary drawl of others makes it a tiring listen. that's definitely not an issue with Fontanelle. might give poti another listen now tho, as I half seen to have convinced myself it's better than I ever feel when I'm listening to it.

i'm quite enjoying this, but have just realised that wait, this angsty dirge you're quite enjoying? that's what grunge was you fool. guess I still like grunge huh. not sure that's something i've tested since it was around tbf.

the mess here feels like a v good example of it tho. there are quite often bits in the song, sometimes several, where it changes direction unexpectedly. foursquare riffing (pleasing as that can be) is regularly used to be abused, and where it isn't the song is probably the weaker for it (good sister/bad sister). I like the way she cuts the rage for a menacing/threatening drawl (in garbage man, say) - she's got a good variation in delivery (crazy a statement as that might seem). The deranged muttering in Mrs Jones for instance (quite static song, in that it doesn't seem to make much of its energy, or at least doesn't gain much propulsion, I'm not sure that static energy isn't a thing though - producing a sort of sullen anti-listener swamp feel to the music). Pretty on the Inside/Clouds probably the highlight of the album for me.

fucked up violently aggressive feminist blues rock can't possibly be a bad thing really - this is probably a better album out of its immediate context (grunge) and more in what it takes/stamps on from Californian rock, say.

duds:
good sister/bad sister
berry - is sort of the centre of why the album isn't appealing in a way (like the way album highlights are representative but in reverse) - it has the characteristics of all the songs but to less good effect, and as a consequence reduces the pleasure in the rest of the songs.
loaded - yeah I'm getting a bit lost by this stage of the album, possibly stopped listening slightly now. oh wait, i'm quite enjoying the end bit where the song collapses and she's just indifferently repeating 'I just get Loaded'.

But yeah, listening to Fontanelle now, and it feels a wittier better album. Right, all done here. Not sure I'll be listening to either of these albums again in a while, but enjoyable while it lasted.

See you next week then? :)

well actually this has made me want to attempt Live Through This again, I never really tried that hard in the first place. So might see me sooner than you think!

It is a good album. Not on a par with Nirvana albums obviously as some Courtney stans like to think but a fine album.

Pah. I'm a pretty big Nirvana fan, but I've never listened to any Nirvana albums as much as I've listened to Live Through This and Celebrity Skin. Among other things, Courtney is a much better lryicist...

Lyricist, even...

Babes up, hoes down, fuck cali, minnesota all day

There was always talk that courtney stole songs from babes on the first hole record

didn't babes in toyland always say Courtney stole the baby doll dress wearing image from them?

not that it matters really.

also tipsy, in yer dreams!

hah turrican couldnt stand babes in toyland when it was just played in plug.dj/ilxors

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, February 5, 2013 1:10 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Don't worry, I made up for it by blasting Megadeth!

someone somewhere recently on ilx referred to Nirvana as music that sounds really sober. And despite what we know about Kurt's drug intake, I was relistening to Nevermind and In Utero last week and can't help but agree! I don't think this is a detriment necessarily, but they just sound so measured and deliberate. Live Through This, while being really structural and composed and everything, is a much looser performance, which is probably why I prefer it.

nothing wrong with having preferences

the whole Fontanelle album for your pleasure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-eDxtEP6Z8

Katastrophy Wife were as good (if not better) as Babes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At6gbwUJS9Y

gotta say, those tracks you posted up above don't make me want to listen to a whole Bikini Kill album.