Wire's Rules of Negative Self-Definition 1977 Poll

When the words run out, it stops ftw

As much as I like Wire, when you put it like this, I kinda don't.

hate these

Nobody said these rules should apply to aerosmith compostions, just Wire songs, circa 1977.

No Americanisms

presumably that's electric guitars and anything structured around rock and roll fucked then

They matured. They became a better band when they broke all these rules

Nobody said these rules should apply to aerosmith compostions, just Wire songs, circa 1977.

yeah I know, and Wire made good records w/these in mind so whatever, but these sorts of things are just so charmless. "no soloing"? what if a solo would sound good in this one spot? OH NO IT'S A SOLO, IT CANNOT BE. This is fashion consciousness masquerading as a musical aesthetic and as such can eat shit

and tie-dye?

*Waits for the equivalent of Godwin's Law to kick in on this thread and somebody points out that Johnny Rotten liked Can*

I wasn't "around" back then but these had to be a little tongue in cheek. Pink Flag is one of the funniest albums I own.

But this sort of thing can work as a way to challenge yourself to come up with something different instead of reaching for what might be the most obvious/intuitive 'thing that would sound good' (which guitar solos had probably become by 1977).

xpost to aero

Getting upset about somebody's aesthetic manifesto/doctine/strategy - from 36 years ago- because it is too narrow and constricting seems a little ridiculous. I mean it's like they controlled the record industry or the airwaves or some kind of government institution and imposed this on anyone else. Also, what brimstead said. and xpost, what Sund4r said.

Nobody said these rules should apply to aerosmith compostions, just Wire songs, circa 1977.

Yes--and what's more, I'm quite sure, in 1977, they were just making stuff up to agitate Genesis (or whoever) fans. "Too Late," a year later, breaks three or four them in the best ways possible. I don't really take this as an earnest manifesto.

These rules would work great for one album. Not for a whole career. And in fact, Wire only had two good albums, Pink Flag and Chairs Missing (the latter is better). Then they sucked for two decades, and then the two Read & Burn EPs were great, and now they suck again (Red Barked Tree = so, so boring).

(xp)
Unless people keep coming up at aerosmith shows saying "Dang, Joe Perry. I heard you rock out a guitar solo/vamp on the end of that tune, long after the words run out. Ain't you read the Wire Manifesto?" which might make it something of a sure point.

A lot of great music from Chairs Missing on...

I wanna talk to that George Perec. man, he wrote a whole book without the letter e, my favorite letter.

The track "Pink Flag" is all decoration.

My favorite of these rules is NO CHORUSING OUT. It's the one that would benefit the most recording artists.

Choruses are great but there comes a time to shut the fuck up about your damn chorus.

i like manifestoes, i also think it's okay to say a sucky manifesto sucks without generalising beyond that

Wish I could find Iggy Pop's instructions to Mike Watt before he signed him on to the Stooges reunion: No Flea-ing out. No triads, etc.

I would also wager there's an extra-musical political aspect to this "manifesto" made by art students.

The Dictators' Manifesto Destiny's pretty good.

No Elvis, Beatles or The Rolling Stones, but Mott the Hoople is OK? Think, MIck Jones and Joe Strummer.

geir was right 2013

Ha. Those words should be on this thead: why do i hate that artist thing that people keep posting on my facebook so much? why am i such a jerk?, over that Village of the Geirs gif.

"no slapping, no triads ... and no Flea-ing around on stage."

What is "rocking out" supposed to mean here? Pink Flag sounds pretty rockin to me.

I did wonder about that one.

Numbers 1-6 are essentially all the same thing
This list fails at its own manifesto

1. Not lettuce
2. Not a tomato
3. Not a beet
4. Not a leek
5. It's a vegetable
6. It's cabbage
7. It's Savoy cabbage, none of that Chinese shit

lol

we should poll those! my vote would go to "not a beet" (insert geir joke here)

voting 'twice boiled cabbage is death' amirite here folks

Ha, fgti OTM actually

I should also admit that 154 is the one Wire album that really clicked with me. By that point, they were clearly not following these rules.

No, they were "INTERRUPTING OUR TRAIN OF THOUGHT LINES OF LONGITUDE AND LATITUDE...."

the manics had a good one that went something like 'no encores, no mustaches...'

I’ll make it as easy for you as I can. No solos, and no decoration. Short songs only, no more than a couple of minutes, and when the words run out, the song stops, okay? Now: if you’ve got a catchy chorus, we only need to hear it once or twice--no chorusing out. Don’t pretend you’re Creedence Clearwater and start rocking out all of a sudden. The main thing is to keep to the point at all times. And no “Hello, Cleveland!” or “Let’s get real, real gone for a change”--in fact, no Americanisms of any kind. Now all you have to do is keep those six things in mind, bring me the cheque, and you haven’t broken any rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtfNE4z6a8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2NaHBVVYzY

no irrelevant unfunny youtubes

you want my tuppence - Send is the best one (all-time top 20 by anyone), then 154, then Chairs Missing, then a big gap. I realise this is certifiably banworthy

R&B 03 and Vien somewhere between Send and 154

Yes--and what's more, I'm quite sure, in 1977, they were just making stuff up to agitate Genesis (or whoever) fans.

What was it like in 1977? Would Genesis/Gabriel (or, say, King Crimson) fans really have been agitated by something like this (more so than by Saturday Night Fever or Barry Manilow)? Were prog fans so prevalent or obnoxious that there was a need to agitate them? Or maybe it was more of an internal 'battle/rebellion' within the niche world of British art-rock, in the way that minimalists rebelled against post-serialists?

xposts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl-CriM6vx0

Which serves as both another list of rules and as an insight into the cultural background of the late 70s in which this struggle was taking place.

Although I think in the Canadian versions of the film they played The Tea Party on the soundtrack instead.

keep to the point

It was a magical world, filled with cotton-candy clouds and cinnamon rainbows...I picked Genesis's name as a general representation of whatever punk reacted against; there are many better examples. (Didn't Gabriel sort of align himself with new wave on his first solo records? He got played on the same stations, anyway.) I just meant that Wire were trying to make some noise, get noticed, get people upset over nothing.

keeping to the point seems like a good rule imo

Not sure why people are so upset by them!

i think the words think rankles most cos bollocks to words

also, saying "they are a bit wanky" is not being upset

the Wires might think they are a bit wanky now

I bet you they don't. They break them all on their first album anyway.

i object to songs having points as well

"decoration" = classic form/substance category error

it's like they just tossed this list off for a joke

Are we voting for which attribute was the best for Wire's music or is the best idea in general?

Really great trolling, '77-style...

...hey, wait a minute.

"No Americanisms" is the best rule btw.

For sure, dude

It's a totally tubular way to get gnarly.

it's a lowdown dirty shame

Whatever happened to that teenage girl who incurred the wrath of the band by making her own homemade wire videos with her friends? They really came off as jokey guys with a sense of humor on that occasion.

What? Tell us more.

"you're our only fan under the age of 35! stop bothering us!"

I thought at the time that them suing Elastica was a case of old dudes getting the hump, now I'm like "go Newman!"

Wire's Colin Newman in online spat with fan dustup

on the one hand this 15 yr old sounds really annoying, on the other trolling colin newman is p funny

― max, Monday, 5 March 2012 21:00 (11 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm-iest post on thread

http://www.warr.org/odd70s.html#PinkFlag

Not sure why people are so upset by them!

no-one's upset afaik, people are - oh no! - actually talking about the subject of the thread?

the world would be a better place w/ more bands (or artists in general) thinking deliberately about what they want to do, beyond received notions of genre or mimicking particular acts

this is an interesting assertion - I think bands think too much about what they do or don't want to sound like, but some of that could be down to where yr experience of band is - if yr scene is a place where "have a band" is a directive (thinkin' about balls's backyard here) then I can imagine "fuck, maybe don't start a band until you have an actual idea?" could be a thought you might have - but like - the mid-nineties Very Serious indie rock bands who took the most inspiration from Wire/talked about loving Wire a lot (thinkin midwestern emphasis-on-the-Rock acts) never met a set of dumb-ass "no _________!" rules they didn't like. But there's a scene in the Aja Classic Albums where Chuck Rainey talks about how Becker and Fagen were adamant about not wanting any slapping on their record, and Rainey says "as a musician, the only thing I cared about was whether it sounded good in the track" - so he turned his body to the side so they would see him slap with his thumb, and they all sang the praises of the take when he was done. Chuck Rainey otm imo re guys w/rules. NB in practice I am the worst Guy With Rules and people who work w/me would be angry to hear me arguing a "whatever works" position

*wouldn't see him slap

secretly slapping when a musician says no = otm, but secretly doubletracking = evil?

Seems to me Aja was a different kind of project from Pink Flag]. Walter and Chuck had already spent some time preparing for that track, so Chuck had a good idea of what Walter wanted and then made an executive decision. If he had be caught by the Funk Police they would have just done another take in another style, no harm, no foul. This was Steely Dan, not The Stooges. How many guitar takes- and guitarists!- did they record for that same song before they got the one they wanted?

secretly slapping when a musician says no = otm, but secretly doubletracking = evil

always good to read a post through the end crut

NB in practice I am the worst Guy With Rules and people who work w/me would be angry to hear me arguing a "whatever works" position

I mean, I read that

this was really early wire, right? i feel like these kinds of aesthetic rules are great for when a band is starting out, it gives you an identity and you understand what kinds of songs you're trying to write - then you can branch out from that base (as wire did, very quickly)

Has Wire apologized yet?

For "Manscape"? Not as far as I know.

Sometimes context is everything. Listening to "Pink Flag" in 1977 is very different than listening to it in 2013. I wasn't aware of it at the time but "Pink Flag" stood apart from both its punk friends and establishment enemies, that's what helped make it so unique. But, of course, the best art is still vital stripped of context - which is certainly true of the first three Wire albums and, I'd argue, their 21st century output as well.

Is it still true that Wire never bantered onstage aside from their "Pay attention, we're Wire" intro on their first show?

Even beyond these rules, Wire have always been about indulging some fanciful self-discipline, whether it's "no Pink Flag" in the 80s, or "hilarious tiny digital amps" in the 00s

My favorite Wire song probably ("Ex Lion Tamer") has tons of rocking out. No Americanisms!

Anyway I like this kind of manifesto, I like when Stephin Merritt said "you will not find any Casio products on a Magnetic Fields record". Kudos to any band who comes clean about their own private efforts to discipline themselves

Even beyond these rules, Wire have always been about indulging some fanciful self-discipline, whether it's "no Pink Flag" in the 80s, or "hilarious tiny digital amps" in the 00s

Gotobed not using cymbals... 80s/90s?

iirc wire breaks the no chorusing out rule a few times

i interpret "no rocking out" to not be about the songwriting but the performance, ie no theatrical thrashing around in concert

yeah also i think people mistake tempo or crescendo for rocking, or want to subsume it into rocking, which, y'know, no

"Wagner rocks man" *sigh*

on album at least all these songs are pinched and tense and Wire-y and therefore do not "rock"

they break at least half these rules on pink flag but cheeky agitprop was the thing to do at the time so w/e

Gotobed not using cymbals...

For this alone he is a hero forever.

Is it still true that Wire never bantered onstage aside from their "Pay attention, we're Wire" intro on their first show?

When I saw them last winter, halfway through the show one of the original guys (not Newman) made reference to the Blue Jays, of all things. Their version of "Hello, Cleveland," I guess. That was pretty much all they said all night.

(thinkin' about balls's backyard here) - YOU ARE CORRECT SIR

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/attachments/new-divers-those-considering-diving/103374d1315883882-newbie-diver-mistakes-dont-do-what-i-did-1790121-donnie_dont_does_super.jpg

donny don't was one of my favourite punk musicians

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

"Keep to the point" is a good rule

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Stay glued to your TV set