The new *Da Capo Best Music Writing 2002* book is out...

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...AND THEY CALL IT ILOVEMUSIC.COM!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

B-b-but Mike it's the Interweb! Everything has to end in .com!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:29 (twenty-three years ago)

MIKE THIS IS URGENT AND KEY: HOW DID THEY PRINT MY NAME? IF IT'S JUST "JESS" MY MOTHER WILL KILL ME.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

That's what it says in the table of contents. The credits say "'Strokes Thread' by Various. This first appeared in the Ilovemusic Forum at greenspun.com. (Italics theirs.) So that's not as bad. STILL!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, Jess, Jess...

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:31 (twenty-three years ago)

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH#$%P)#%$OIHWRPOKH%#%OJNFDN:J%NPO#$NJKLND:%J#N:LRN:L#$N#:$%LKN#:LKN:LKN#LMKN#%:MN$MLN#$:!L@!!!!!!!!

etc.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:32 (twenty-three years ago)

haha maybe this is good actually: i don't even remember what i said.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)

You're referred to as "JESS (dubalias@hotmail.com )!

Similarly, "FRITZ," "HANS," "NITSUH," "DAVID," and "SCOTT P."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Whoopsie. What I meant to say is that everyone in the article is referred to by their first name in caps, a aliased e-mail address, then, in brackets, the aliased e-mail address with "mailto:" in front. Sloppy, sloppy.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

(i think i'm gonna go to bookstores around town and write "harvell" next to my name in all the copies.)

THOSE BASTARDS! we even sent in our fucking information! and where's my goddamn check?!?!

(heh, i guess there's no "author bios" for us that we were asked to write either, eh?)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

No, no author bios either!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:36 (twenty-three years ago)

this is the biggest rip off since "the neverending story"!!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

This is the biggest rip-off since the ending of Monster A Go-Go!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Serves you all right for bedding down with THE MAN!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

this is the biggest rip off since "the neverending story"!!

i thought we established that that continues with mark s

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

and i like the strokes now! possibly dozens of people might be reading out of date information!!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

jessediah?

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Author bios? I don't even have any idea what's going on except that I probably disagree with most of what I railed on about.

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

excuse my ignorance: who edited the 2002 edition?

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Boo hiss!

And why does Scott get a last initial, while the rest of us don't? Where's the love? Where IS the love?

"Bedding down" - shit, man, we didn't even round first base!

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:41 (twenty-three years ago)

famous author (apparently) jonathan lethem.

(it should be noted that we were alerted to the publishers by the esteemable m. matos, who it should be known was acting in good faith even though we got chumped.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

It's all just very odd considering that, as Jess & Co. said months ago, you guys told them that the "ilovemusic.com" thing wasn't correct. And while I perfectly understand the aliased addresses, the mailto: thing is very very weird. Hmm.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

anyone w/ a link to the thread?

i mean, if it was anyone else but the fucking strokes (haha save maybe interpol), i'd have a fighting chance of finding the thing via search

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

i never gave them permission! wtf? i turned down $50 & a free copy & they went ahead and put me in there anyway!?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, sweet.

FITE.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, Fritz, you gotcher two comments in the book!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, WHERE'S MY FREE COPY!?!?!

This freelance writing thing is way too hard, man.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

i say we register ilovemusic.com and re-direct it to this thread

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

david it seems they lanced your 'lance'

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:48 (twenty-three years ago)

What? That's outrageous. Obviously at some point the editorial people decided that online writers weren't after all actual contributors, so accuracy didn't matter, and public messageboard postings were in the public domain anyway so permission didn't matter. Which they might have a point about, but why go through the whole charade of asking permission?

I hope at least that some of you get paid.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Somebody's already got ilovemusic.com registered.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

i hereby nominate the following excerpt for da capo 2003:

"What Makes Music Work is a self-teaching guide for learning music. It takes an innovative, up-tempo approach. It makes learning a simple and natural process--even if you've never taken a formal music course in music theory. Unlike other books, this one is packed with step-by-step exercises to help you master the material as you progress. Readers love this book as you can see below. This unique book shows you how to:

Read, write and play music.
Identify its basic components
Understand from and structure
Compose a song"

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I was extremely surprised I was contacted, esp. since I assumed these boards were public domain (as Tom said), and especially in light of of my miniscule contribution to the whole thing, but, hey, money, sure. It did take me a couple of months to REMEMBER to fill out their disclosure form, but, yeah, money, sure. Didn't hear a damn thing back from the editors, though, and then this ... a strange way to do business, for sure. Makes me wonder if the other writers were paid.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I just fired off an e-mail to Paul Bresnick from Da Capo. did people who did agree to be included get what they were promised?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

nyet.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

My understanding is that the contents of a bulletin board like this isn't necessarily in the public domain. I can't elaborate; that's all I know.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyway...perhaps you guys should check out the book for yourself before taking any kind of action. You're getting all this informations from ME -- I haven't scanned in the relevant pages or anything.

David, are you saying YOU got paid? And is everyone else (save Fritz) is saying they didn't?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 17:01 (twenty-three years ago)

anyway, i'm not terribly upset. (or even upset at all.) (obv someone like fritz who said "no go" however, should be.)

as geeta helpfully pointed out to me today: "i don't know if you should really worry about not being in a da capo book. they are morons."

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 17:02 (twenty-three years ago)

FWIW, I wasn't even contacted. *shrugs* I could use free money, though.

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 17:18 (twenty-three years ago)

if i had completed my review of the nick hornby 2001 da capo in the manner intended this wd never have happened :(

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 17:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I wish I had written "i like slayer" to the strokes thread.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 17:46 (twenty-three years ago)

No, Mike, I wasn't paid. I was just alluding to the fact that the opportunity to get paid was what motivated me to fill out the dopey paperwork.

Fritz, add me to the throng of disatisfied and cranky fuckers, if you wish.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

My understanding is that the contents of a bulletin board like this isn't necessarily in the public domain. I can't elaborate; that's all I know.

See number 3.

― Vic Funk, Wednesday, 2 October 2002 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Quick-everyone go to Amazon.com and give it a shitty review!!!

― brg30 (brg30), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 18:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Checks weren't scheduled to go out until it pubbed, so we should be seeing them soon.

When I sent in my permission I told them (a) it's not "ilovemusic.com," (b) a better link would be to Freakytrigger, and (c) my bio should say "Nitsuh totally changed his mind when he heard the full album and wrote a long article about it for Freakytrigger" -- but if they didn't get (a) and (b) right I'm not holding out hope for (c).

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 19:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, and I also told them that they had better put a little thing at the beginning noting that at the time of that discussion, the Strokes record wasn't even out in the U.S., and Bresnick said yeah, they'd do that -- did they???

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 19:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Now I haven't looked at the whole thing yet, but God no, they don't say anything about the article's time and context.

However...I do note that Lethem does mention Ilm in his intro:

"This [intro] is my chance to mention all the things this book could have been, and isn't: Rock Obituaries 2001, The Year's Best Dylan Writing, or Fifty Thousand Music Fans Array Themselves Like Iron Filings in Postures of Attractions and Repulsion Vis-à-vis The Strokes (though I did find a useful distillation of this element in an excerpt from the Ilovemusic online forum, where much of the impromptu chatter is as good as the best magazine writing)."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 20:06 (twenty-three years ago)

there are no ILM contributor bios. And I told Jonathan (who asked) that it wasn't "Ilovemusic.com," that I Love Music at Greenspun.com would be more correct. My guess is that those faults are entirely on Da Capo.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 20:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Is this the thread y'all are talking about? Give us nu-ilm'ers a hand.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 20:13 (twenty-three years ago)

If that's the thread, it's hardly the best Strokesthread here! (And, I guess, it explains why I wasn't contacted -- haven't used that address in a very long time, but as an editor, I'd be embarrassed to have such little diligence. I guess it’s just ‘message board chatter’ and the ‘ilovemusic.com’ excerpt doesn’t warrant fact-checking/respect.) Which, the more I think about it, is a bit of a letdown – most everyone mentioned in the work does actually work in publishing or freelances or both, it wouldn’t have hurt to have been given some credit.

Odd how much everyone in that thread's opinions about the Strokes have changed to a large degree! It all just seems so long ago. 'Best Music Writing [i]2002[/i]'! Ha!

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 20:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Grr! "mentioned in the thread"

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 20:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Seems to me that the way to deal with this is that one of the people who declined permission to allow their words to appear but were quoted anyhow should:

1) Contact someone at Da Capo and ask them for permission to reprint the book in its entirety on the Internet.
2) Wait for them to say no.
3) Scan it, OCR it, and put it up on the net anyway.

Someone whose words appear in the book but weren't even contacted should just scan it and post it without worrying about steps 1 and 2.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 21:51 (twenty-three years ago)

This all reminds me that in one Freaky Trigger's first mass-media mentions, Alternative Press spelled it F-R-E-A-K-Y T-I-G-G-E-R. (Note exiled letter "r.")

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 23:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, bother.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 2 October 2002 23:33 (twenty-three years ago)

haven't heard back from bresnick yet. anybody else tried to get ahold of anyone at da capo?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 3 October 2002 12:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know what you're all complaining about, I'm was thrilled to have a brief cameo in 'Young and Foolish'.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 3 October 2002 13:00 (twenty-three years ago)

AP got major points from me for that, though. "Freaky Tigger" is a fantastic name.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 October 2002 13:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay, now I know what Ned was grousing about on ile.

As somebody who used to do editing and proofreading for a publisher, this sounds like really really shoddy work (if it is as Mike describes, but I have no doubt he's described it accurately).

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 3 October 2002 13:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyone live in Washington?

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 3 October 2002 13:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Tigga please.

― Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 3 October 2002 13:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Now I'm imagining ODB singing "Got Your Honey".

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 3 October 2002 13:51 (twenty-three years ago)

i called but there was an ansafone message: bizzy baksun

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 3 October 2002 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Now I'm imagining ODB singing "Got Your Honey".

"I don't have a problem with you feeding me/But I do have a problem with you NOT feeding me..."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 October 2002 14:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Hi all--I don't know what you're on about! I saw the book and I think that section is great--everyone's threads look intelligent and funny. I feel so proud of my fellow posters, getting published and all... Making ILM look good... I understand that they got the ILM name wrong which sucks, and it would have been nice to do bios, and full names, but you can't really blame them for changing your minds about the Strokes after the thread...

― Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 16:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I CAN BLAME THEM FOR NOT GETTING PAID THOUGH.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I actually didn't change my mind about the strokes, so that's not the point. I'm mad because I didn't tell them that they could put it in the book, and they haven't responded to a friendly e-mail asking why they published something without my permission.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah it seems like everyone is mad at the shoddy second-rate treatment -- it's typical 'oh, it's only the internet' behavior from print types, though. fritz you should try and get paid, everyone else should keep sending e-mails, and hey, i think i should go apply for a proofreading job at da capo since it looks like they need the help!

also is the domain mixup more evidence that the guardian meant to nominate ile for those crap awards they handed out a while back?

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 16:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe you sue De Capo! The ultimate ILM vs. De Capo FITE. I know of at least one ILM lawyer who might be willing to take on this case...

― Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Tad to thread!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 03:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Bring in Colin, too! Dream Team! Dream Team!

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 03:27 (twenty-three years ago)

"roger shapiro...trial attorney! and alan dershman...who can hold three billard balls in his mouth!"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 03:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Maura no - you had to enter to win an award and AFAIK nobody entered anything, I certainly didn't.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 08:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I just rec'd my complementary copy of zee book. The enclosed letter states that payment will follow in two weeks. So, hopefully, the rest of you contributory type folks will receive similar packages soon.

Even if you're not going to buy the book, read that DJ article by Franklin Bruno (p. 54). It's fiiiiiine.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 10 October 2002 23:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Uh, how is the non-ILM part of the book?

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 11 October 2002 02:28 (twenty-three years ago)

who cares?

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Friday, 11 October 2002 05:39 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

Did you Daver?

― Graham (graham), Thursday, 5 December 2002 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I have sent 5 emails to the gentleman who contacted me initially asking for a copy of the book and the promised fee - which i figure is more than fair since they used my posts despite having not rec'd my permission to include them. (why did they even ask?)

no reply.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 5 December 2002 16:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Phone them Fritz.

I'm sure I saw the actual article posted somewhere. Is it?

― Graham (graham), Thursday, 5 December 2002 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm kind of past caring about it, to be honest. I'm vaguely peeved that they wouldn't even bother to acknowledge my e-mails but I didn't write the bit they published expecting to get paid so fair enough.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 5 December 2002 16:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I keep forgetting about this entirely. I guess I should send them some sort of correspondance!

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 5 December 2002 17:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I never got anything, either. And I sent a very nice email that said "hey, I work in publishing, I know what it's like cleaning up on processing these little details, but could you give it a shot?" If nothing else it makes me feel like I'm better at my job.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 December 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

WHERE'S MY FIFTY DOLLARS

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 December 2002 17:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, I can't pay shit to my writers so at least I pay them ASAP. I guess your collective frustration is why I never bothered putting any energy into this, but, sad to say, I could really use $50.

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 5 December 2002 17:46 (twenty-three years ago)

(btw, scott: i am trying to find my contact info for you, but having little luck. if i do, i'll mail it to you. yr probably better off with daver, who, iirc, actually got paid.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:03 (twenty-three years ago)

OK, thanks Jess. I was under the impression from Tom's NYLPM entry that most people had gotten paid, so I guess just ignore that -- I'll try Dave or go back to forgetting about the whole thing.

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:56 (twenty-three years ago)

How the hell am I the only one that got paid? Christ, I contributed THE LEAST out of any of you! That's messed up, to say the least.

A couple of weeks after I got the book, I rec'd the check. Simple as that. Didn't haraunge, didn't contact, didn't do anything (as far as I recall) except what you see here.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:04 (twenty-three years ago)

That's so odd. When you first mentioned that, Dave, I contacted them, and got a response that said, basically, "the book's just pubbed, we're sending your advance copies and your check directly." Never got either, no response to later mail. I was actually more interested in just getting the book. I know $50 would buy a couple of them, but nonetheless, I've been sitting around waiting to see what else was in there.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe David's supposed to divvy up the $50 and send portions around.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Am I supposed to divvy up the book, too?

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:47 (twenty-three years ago)

DIBS ON CHAPTER 3!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 December 2002 20:01 (twenty-three years ago)

eight months pass...

Working at a bookstore today. I was flipping through some of the textbooks for english classes this coming semester, and I opened up to the Strokes Thread part of the Da Capo music writing, and was very surprised. People in some English class at my college will be studying your writing.

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 1 September 2003 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

PAY ME YOU FUCKERS

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 1 September 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess needs a new basketball

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 1 September 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

his hoop dreams deflate like a true fiend's weight

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm such a sham.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

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