STYLE Change FASHION change: Neil Young's Eighties Albums

hawks and doves

I'd rank them:

Freedom
Eldorado
Trans
H&D

I like what I've heard of Life ("Around The World" and "Prisoners..." especially) and "Hippie Dream and "Pressure" from LOW.

Old Ways and Everybody's Rockin' are irredeemable, the former especially.

Freedom. boring answer but true.

the poll woy\uld have been more interesting without Freedom

in typical loco fashion "Cocaine Eyes" and "Heavy Love" only found on El Dorado.

Man, if the three Eldorado-only tracks ("Cocaine Eyes," "Heavy Love" and the title track) were stuffed onto Freedom, what a killer album that would have been. As it is, I vote for the EP. It's actually one of the NY releases I listen to the most.

I remember liking This Note's For You at the time, but I haven't listened to it in close to 25 years, so...

Trans

think of hawks and doves and reactor as more of a piece w/ his 70s stuff -- trans is really where neils "80s" begin, I think.
i dunno, Trans is probably the best geffen LP here... and Freedom is probably the best overall? I'll have to mull it over.

pretty damn solid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ4E38IKosU

here's a rarities/live companion to the 80s years that I made: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/24071228066/bad-news-neil-young-in-the-1980s-as-a-follow-up

the Synclavier-only version of "Razor Love" mentioned in Shakey sounds fab. I can't find it though.

never been bootlegged afaik -- would love to hear that one, too. such a great song.

Hawks and Doves, Reactor, and Freedom all have good stuff...I was probably most excited about Reactor at the time; I'll throw another vote to Hawks and Doves, but I'm not 100% sure. As I've said many times, no use for Trans, even if I'm way too old to get worked up over it like I once did. Landing on Water is the most dreadful, although maybe only because I've managed to avoid the Budweiser album to this day. I've never heard El Dorado.

Old Ways has to be heard to be believed. The guy's written country-inflected tunes his whole career yet re-records the album and sounds like a Manhattan-er parodying the genre. There isn't a single redeeming thing about it.

yeah, i really think it is the one neil album i am just not interested in hearing ever again. that Treasure live thing he put out a few years back is about a million times better.
you should hear el dorado, clemenza! or at least hear this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bi72LVCGns&feature=share&list=PL6X3tthZmF0hLcOLS03L6VsGqzAWr07BC

tylerw, will you offer a modest defense of Life? I still don't own it.

"This Note's For You" is one joke extended past five minutes. Its MTV victory I chalk up to boomer guilt over embracing Steve Winwood.

I've never heard Weld, either--were it and El Dorado import only?

think of hawks and doves and reactor as more of a piece w/ his 70s stuff

Very much agree with this. He was still locked into his yin-yang thing of acoustic/electric going back to Zuma. And then, with Trans, he pretty much invented "wtf?"

xp yeah i can modestly defend Life -- "Mideast Vacation" is enjoyably bonkers. "Around The World" is pretty awesome, and "Prisoners of Rock N Roll" is a classic/dumb anthem. not sure if there's that much else worth salvaging. i always want to like "when your lonely heart breaks" a little more that i actually do...

A friend and I came up with an idea that we haven't been able to execute yet but really want to do: A whole-album cover of Harvest in the style of Trans, and vice versa.

Trans begins with Doobie boogie (and released as a single) until you can practically hear Neil sigh with relief and say, "Plug this here space station in!"

I've never heard Weld, either--were it and El Dorado import only?

Eldorado was only released in Australia and Japan (and only on CD). Weld was definitely issued in the US; I vividly remember going to the record store the day it was released to pick it up (Arc-Weld, technically).

yeah, i really think it is the one neil album i am just not interested in hearing ever again. that Treasure live thing he put out a few years back is about a million times better.

I absolutely love A Treasure, and it made me think I really should check out Old Ways. Now I'm thinking not.

Eldorado was only released in Australia and Japan (and only on CD)

Actually, it's even weirder than that - it was only released on CD in Japan, and only released on LP and cassette in Australia.

in addition to the title cut, which i like quite a bit, the redeeming moment on this note's for you is "coupe de ville," which is a somewhat aimless arrangement of a pretty great song. i'd love to hear an alternate version.

i've always given life a free pass on account of "prisoners of rock and roll," which i'm reasonably sure makes me think the album is way better than it actually is.

looking at the whole list, it strikes that i haven't listened to any of them in a hundred million years. and i listen to neil a lot. if distant memory serves, even the best of them, which are probably hawks & doves, freedom, trans and eldorado, were pretty damn uneven. eldorado came closest to holding my attention all the way through, but it's not quite an album, is it? i remember freedom arriving a few months later as a great relief after that spotty decade, but also as a great disappointment after eldorado.

I love coupe de ville

Freedom's in his canon, so I expect it to dominate.

even with the presence of "Someday."

i would assume there's a pretty big trans voting bloc on ilm, though.

Freedom ends with "Wrecking Ball," "No More," and "Rockin' in the Free World" with a detour through "Too Far Gone" -- hard to fuck with.

voting re*ac*tor in part for being the one I've had the longest without getting sick of a good-sized chunk of it

Actually, it's even weirder than that - it was only released on CD in Japan, and only released on LP and cassette in Australia.

Weird, didn't know it was ever released on LP! My (CD) copy proudly proclaims "A DIGITAL RECORDING," so I kinda figured he wouldn't have put it out on LP.

And I love how it only took Neil three (or more?) albums to realize he hated digital.

along with Re*Ac*Tor I'd put the synth trilogy (Trans, LOW, Life) over Freedom but that's partially cuz Freedom I've had since middle school while the weirdness of LOW and Life are still pretty fresh and new to me. Freedom definitely has a ton of great stuff but now that I'm into that aggro-keyb stuff the whole "neil is back" thing isn't exactly an exciting development.

I think you're the only guy who loves "Pressure" as much as I do.

my memory of freedom is probably clouded by my memory of its followup, which arrived with a sonic force that seemed to say, "that's not a comeback. THIS is a comeback."

yeah I'd vote Ragged Glory over all of this, it's Neil's ultimate BBQ album

but if I'm gonna hear him get freaked by the 80s I wanna hear him get FREAKED by the 80s

the synth bass on "Pressure" makes me LOL like nothing else in his catalog.

the biggest LOL on pressure for me is the "oh baby" in the last verse

have you heard the whole album yet or are you still riding with Lucky 13? it's very ugly and of a piece

or the synth ooze and voco-distortion on "Around The World" like he just heard Starship's "We Built This City" and loved it.

no! Two bucks used on Amazon but I missed my chance to acquire a freebie a couple years ago. I heard "Drifter" today in honor of this thread and it worked, so.

I'm discounting Hawks & Doves and Freedom as being "end of the '70s" and "beginning of the '90s" and went with Trans.

Hawks & Doves is at least half leftover '70s tracks, isn't it? (Phenomenal leftovers to be sure, but as an album I don't think it's really representational of where his head was at in 1980.)

"Pressure" is fab.

All of the sudden I want to hear a mashup of Neil's "Around the World" with Daft Punk's.

where I am with all this stuff

Hawks & Doves: side 1's psychedelic outtake-pile doesn't do as much as for me as the one on side 2 of American Stars, but side 2's cartoon country has a lot more character than side 1 of American Stars. Favorite: title-track

Trans: shame he didn't get to release the Trans EP and the brain dead yacht rock album individually but the parts are great even if i think the sum gets overrated. i do like that nerds excited for Devo Neil are getting punked by "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" today.

Everybody's Rockin: in a sense, his metal machine music and about as worthy of heavy rotation

Old Ways: A Treasure makes this kind of unnecessary, though side 1's 'oh i'll give you country' is possibly even more of a FUCK YOU to Geffen than Everybody's Rockin

Landing On Water: i don't know whether he thought this was actually commercial but I recommend listening to it as the soundtrack to David Lynch's Miami Vice.

Life: like Freedom, he's kind of learning how to put it all back together, but he hasn't given up on patriotism and synths yet

This Note's For You: David Lynch's budweiser ad, mistakenly made the same length as David Lynch's miami vice episode. hopefully the blue notes will get their "a treasure"

El Dorado: Still haven't heard it!

Freedom: as i said, the weird parts would probably be more fascinating if i haven't known them for 20 years

oh yeah and re*ac*tor is just such a weird hysterical laugh of an album, him just looking at the 80s vibe during the few moments he had away from his kid and going OK SURE WHATEVER, WHEEEEEEE LET'S MACGYVER UP A GATED DRUM SOUND. i feel like most people use the sick-kid/mean-label narrative given in the 90s to politely dismiss this stuff, but if anything i think it makes how frayed and confused he sounds all the more engaging. but then I like Urge Overkill's Exit The Dragon, which also has that "are we being ironic, man I don't even know anymore" vibe.

"This Old Homestead" is a quiet little epic. If he slapped Lost in Space on a Fillmore type live album it'd get reclaimed as a lost clasic

Croup, do you like "Like an Inca"? Synthed-up Santana boogie sounds great now.

Don't own A Treasure!

Old Ways: A Treasure makes this kind of unnecessary, though side 1's 'oh i'll give you country' is possibly even more of a FUCK YOU to Geffen than Everybody's Rockin

Funny thing, Old Ways was actually recorded first, and Geffen nixed it. "Make a rock record!" Everybody's Rockin' was the result.

It was just one FUCK YOU after another with that guy.

Hippie Dream off LoW is great

Lol I KNEW trans would win on ilm

I forgot to vote so add 1 to freedom

forgot to vote -- add one for hawks & doves!!!

New board description: ILM - where Trans is Neil Young's best album.

― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, June 17, 2013 1:39 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

BECAUSE IT IS.

I was at that Jones Beach show! With my dad and my Neil-lovin' uncle! iirc Indigo Girls opened. I was 11. It fucking ruled.

Also, this:

Everybody's Rockin: in a sense, his metal machine music and about as worthy of heavy rotation

Old Ways: A Treasure makes this kind of unnecessary, though side 1's 'oh i'll give you country' is possibly even more of a FUCK YOU to Geffen than Everybody's Rockin

is SO otm. Best summation of these two albums I've seen.

That said, Trans winning this is ridiculous. Well, maybe not ridiculous, living as we are in a post-Daft Punk kinda world, a world in which guys like Oneohtrix Point Never are bonafide indie stars, but, come on guys, better than Freedom? It's not even better than Re.ac.tor (which, btw, was srsly robbed here - "Shots?" "Southern Pacific?" Yall crazy).

Also, I pulled out TNFY recently, first time in years, and was surprised at how well some of it holds up, especialy the slow-burners: the aforementioned "Coupe De Ville" but also "Twilight," "One Thing," and "Can't Believe You're Lyin'" - pretty great.

I woulda voted for Hawks & Doves; what a great record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO3vsaqRPEM

yeah, i think the first side of H&D is a side that neil should've explored more -- the acoustic performances w/ some groovy, slightly psychedelic overdubs a la will to love and the first side of rust never sleeps.

"The OId Homestead"s been killin' me lately.

yeah "homestead" kind of sneaks up on you. it was really old at that point -- he played it on the 1974 CSNY tour, and I guess it was slated for inclusion on Homegrown, the famed lost album.

the problem with Trans isn't the synth stuff it's that Neil hedged his bets and didn't go all-in on the synth stuff

OTM

i really wish he'd made a video for "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" - something hammy and coked out like the Stones' "She's So Cold" clip

I'd forgotten how short Hawks & Doves was, all but three songs are under the 3 min mark.

i don't think it's on the album, but the version of the song on the berlin live stuff features the "harvest moon" riff right after the chorus - you can hear it at 3:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bxen_3yxjY

Old Homestead is fantastic. I have a feeling This Notes for You is tge real unsunv classic of the bunch; part of what I love about Freedom is how, for all of its vaunted status as one of the ultimate return to form records, is that its kind of also a servicable sequel to TNFY

'the real unsung classic' etc etc

part of what I love about Freedom is how, for all of its vaunted status as one of the ultimate return to form records, is that its kind of also a servicable sequel to TNFY Eldorado.

ha, well, yeah "crime in the city" and "someday" ARE bluenotes recordings. and "this note's for you" is the same general chord progression as rockin in thee free world too.

the production on something like "the ways of love" is pretty Life too. Gonna go "on a limb" (hiyo) and say that Re*Ac*Tor and Freedom serve as good book-ends to the wild years. former hints at a lot of sounds to be explored, latter says goodbye to a lot of them. former has a lot of faux-fun from a guy clearly not having much, latter cops to a lot of drama but sounds more considered, artful.

yeah that sounds otm. it is kind of interesting -- I think that neil even admitted at some point that the late 80s is when he started listening to all of his old stuff for the archives project, and that sent him back to making "neil young" records rather than trying out various genres/styles. (and around the time of freedom is when old, unreleased 70s songs start showing up on new albums too). since then, there haven't been any really radical left turns (sleeps with angels maybe comes the closest) -- they're all "neil young" records.

yeah there are some stylistic shifts and ambitious left turns, but nothing he couldn't wear plaid and jeans for

since half of h'n'd is old outtakes i kind of look at it as the ominous teaser clip after Live Rust's happy credit roll

Shakey is ambivalent about whether Young chose to avoid writing Neil Young Songs because Geffen pissed him off so royally. Putting aside for the moment his penchant for recyling old tunes, could he have written the new stuff in 1985?

i'm sure getting off geffen made him feel like he had something to prove songwriting-wise ... at the same time, he was playing "eldorado" in 1986.

The use of Niko Bolas is the giveaway that he's trying Something New but Freedom could easily have turned into another half-wonderful album like Life.

(and around the time of freedom is when old, unreleased 70s songs start showing up on new albums too).

True, but "Wonderin'" was on Everybody's Rockin'.

Remember "Wonderin'" dated back to the Whitten-era Crazy Horse.

xpost!

i don't think neil ever meant to suck, but i do think between the secret family stress, geffen getting on his bad side, and the synth malaise that hit almost every boomer rocker, the little twists and turns he always takes turned into some truly reckless veering for a bit.

you think so? The synth malaise bothered him less than the other boomers, it seems. He suffered from a malaise, period.

i think we might be meaning different things with our shorthand. I just mean everybody made gaudy shit while figuring out how these damn things worked.

i mean i love landing on water but that's definitely him in the land of dated & gated.

xxxp yeah, it's true, he was always dipping into the well -- "bad news" and "hello lonely woman" from the bluenotes years are both old too.

if trans is "yo, this is the future!" low is "danny kortchmar, that's a name that will shut Geffen up"

This would be a terrific poll: garish boomer synth pop experiments (Press to Play, Dog Eat Dog, Eye of the Zombie, etc)

Trans will totally win tho lol

listening to trans for the first time. sounds great on record!

not sure what thread to revive so this'll do

can anyone point me to articles about the production of Freedom? I'm getting lost in how Neil is miked on "Wrecking Ball" and I want to read about it

there's a live version on Tulsa 1/13/89 that's gorgeous too; without the reverb Neil sounds off at first, warbling kinda out of tune, but he locks in on the melody on the chorus, and I wince at the nakedness.

wish so badly he'd put out a Bootleg Series of those 89 shows with the Restless

Are there Pono-quality tapes out there?

man I'd buy a Pono for that

Listening to Landing On Water, I dunno, it's a strange album

Half the time it's not Steve Jordan's drums (drier than I expected apart from a few reverb-heavy songs), apart from being very prominent in the mix, but the synth bass and Neil's lead playing that dates this album - some of his most traditional lead playing but does sound very mid 80s. And the unnecessary volume of synths over the top of a lot of the songs.

Then there's stuff like I Got A Problem, which is basically a garage rock band, albeit one right out 1986.

damn this new Bluenote Cafe Performance Series release is KILLER. no kidding. a totally good time.
basically the same kinda successful rewrite of 80s history as A Treasure.
Now we need a Shocking Pinks Performance Series disc.

Ha, was there ever a Shocking Pinks tour?

Definitely want to hear Bluenote now...tbh, I was thinking, "If tyler likes it, I'll buy it."

lol, yeah it is good. i'll vouch!
he toured w/ the shocking pinks in ... 83 or 84?
it was weird -- he did a solo set (even including Trans songs!) and then the Shocking Pinks were basically the encore. which is an odd way to do things, but hey.
there was a concert film of the whole thing (directed by hal ashby) that came out -- i saw it on youtube a couple years back, but i think it got pulled down.

i guess some of it is up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O11GdAQXd8
weirder still, the video is called Trans Tour.

Trans (1982) 11

OTM.

that ashby film is awesome and hilarious

he toured w/ the shocking pinks in ... 83 or 84?
it was weird -- he did a solo set (even including Trans songs!) and then the Shocking Pinks were basically the encore. which is an odd way to do things, but hey.

Ah, here we go:
http://www.sugarmtn.org/year.php?year=1983
(scroll down about halfway for 1983 Shocking Pinks tour)

A set that includes both "Don't Be Denied" and "Kinda Fonda Wanda"...that's some whiplash-inducing shit.

yeah, i mean, judging from the ashby film, it might've been the weirdest show neil's ever done. like genuinely bizarre.

Good thread. Here's my answer!

I haven't heard This Note's For You since it came out but I remember liking it, especially Twilight...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhGkBFp8JRY

Also, OTM about Re ac tor being more loud than good. Shots is one of his craziest.