Token albums from genres people usually ignore?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6nwqnE2iLp3GkRvK_VgiiBwX3M_E2hmsyz2JhIP2I33q37fxS
From a post about Miles Davis on FB

According to the RIAA, Kind of Blue is the best-selling jazz album of all time, having been certified as quadruple platinum (4 million copies sold).

Which got me thinking that apart from 4 million being hardly anything compared to say adele,michael jackson,eagles , coldplay etc this is the token jazz album most own but what else could qualify

This has to be one
http://riddim-donmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/legend1.jpg

and amongst people I know this would certainly count -
http://2a56b976980e0793ddee-5cc5435fcbc367bb03f9a415e7067a97.r91.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nirvana-nevermind.jpg

http://factmag-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/public_enemy_-_it_takes_a_nation_of_millions_to_hold_us-back-front_380270f8.jpg

http://media.classicrockmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Metallica-Black-Album.jpg

What else?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bf/Johnny_Cash_At_Folsom_Prison.jpg/220px-Johnny_Cash_At_Folsom_Prison.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/Buenavistasocialclubalbumcover.jpeg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e7/Chant_%28album%29.jpg/220px-Chant_%28album%29.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/Enya2.jpg/220px-Enya2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Getz-gilberto.jpg

keep seeing this as "Tolkien albums from genres people usually ignore"

Which ilxor is gonna post the big n rich album ? :D

Token country album would probably be Dixie Chicks, right?

Or Shania Twain.

Shania probably more likely.

http://echdown.info/files/yanni-live-at-the-acropolis-1994-39160-46eeab5eead84filenameyanni-20--20live-20at-20the-20acropolis-20--20front-20cover-20-28l-29.jpg

yeah but jf i was talking about that time ilxors all bought the big n rich album (and hated it) because of chucks thread!

Big & Rich: Album of the Decade?

lol @ results
How Many Times Have You Played The Big & Rich CD That You Bought Because Of ILX?

Token country album would probably be Dixie Chicks, right?

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:12 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Or Shania Twain.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:13 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Shania probably more likely.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:13 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Or Johnny Cash.

johnny cash seems the obvious choice to me

http://sleevage.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/rhcp_bssm.jpg

I think if any rhcp album was gonna count it would be californication

http://www.backtoblackvinyl.com/images/album-artwork/big/eminem-the-marshall-mathers-lp-front.jpg

on a smaller level Rated R by QOTSA would be the "token rock album indie kids liked"

http://www.bitcandy.com/img/albums/572323.jpg

heheh
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3xUJYZqxdOO1jKMoBW4jhJ7umPquWGyMXDqA8V24OwwMxEPqupA

I think if any rhcp album was gonna count it would be californication

Maybe if BSSM didn't exist, but since it does...

Also, yes I saw the token Cash album upthread. I was thinking more in the vein of modern country.

Maybe Dummy if one owns no other triphop?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Sgt._Pepper

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Robert_Johnson_-_The_Complete_Recordings.jpg

http://media.thelineofbestfit.com/wp-content/media/2012/04/queen_greatesthits-800x800-500x500.jpg

According to the RIAA, Kind of Blue is the best-selling jazz album of all time

I guess it depends on how you define "jazz". Kenny G's Breathless and Norah Jones's Come Away with Me have sold many more than 4M copies in the US.

When jazz was at the peak of its popularity, albums were less popular than singles.

What genre is Queen's Greatest Hits the token album from?

Mercurial Glampop

I think what turrican is trying to say is perhaps its the only hard rock album they own?

which i thus add
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Bat_out_of_Hell.jpg

Having a hard time coming up with one for this...maybe:
http://www.espdisk.com/official/images/large/1002large.jpg

I guess it depends on how you define "jazz". Kenny G's Breathless and Norah Jones's Come Away with Me have sold many more than 4M copies in the US.

When jazz was at the peak of its popularity, albums were less popular than singles.

― EveningStar (Sund4r),

good points I'm sure I read elsewhere about ;)

but yes its down to the old "is it real *insert genre here*" conundrum

Back in Black and Led Zeppelin IV have also sold more copies worldwide, although not in the UK. If he meant prog, Dark Side of the Moon is the obvious candidate there.

2xpost

the albert ayler must be a good call for free jazz in recent years. The box set generated a lot of press.

Yeah, not everyone is on your FB so I thought I'd sum up those points here.:P

xpost

not this one for free jazz? xp

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/ColtraneOM.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MQeb3jTwL._SX450_.jpg

i love ska me ..

dark side of the moon totally belongs here
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/Dark_Side_of_the_Moon.png/220px-Dark_Side_of_the_Moon.png

even prog was at its most unhip people still loved/got in to that album.

treeship if only :)

I like imagining Celine Dion-loving 12-CDers rushing out to pick up a copy of Spiritual Unity for Christmas after reading about it.

xpost Or Om!

xposts

the albert ayler must be a good call for free jazz in recent years. The box set generated a lot of press.

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, July 25, 2013 3:06 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wasn't sure if it would be that, or an Ornette record, or maybe Ascension, but you're right about Ayler's increased visibility vis-a-vis the box (which was even nominated for a Grammy!)

Is either of those albums as popular as Free Jazz?
xpost

i suppose dylan might work as token folk. sadly mumford and sons qualify as the more recent one

alternative token jazz album
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fa/Keith_Jarrett_Koln_Concert_Cover.jpg

The Corrs have sold more in the UK, Simon and Garfunkel in North America.
xpost

Free Jazz was my other thought for that one. Do many people own Unit Structures? I always considered that one to be on the popular side.

haha youre pushing it now with the corrs as folk!

I don't know if it's really sensible to refer to any of those free jazz albums as token albums.

Gorecki's 3rd symphony (Dawn Upshaw recording) on the other hand.

Free Jazz was my other thought for that one. Do many people own Unit Structures? I always considered that one to be on the popular side.

― Treeship, Thursday, July 25, 2013 3:11 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wondered about Unit Structures too, but that struck me as more of a token Cecil Taylor record than a token genre record (but then, Cecil's pretty much a genre unto himself).

personally, i'm just putting album covers

plus i like and own almost everything i've posted (often purchased as "token" entre to genre)

dead kennedys was the safe hardcore choice for years. suicidal tendencies too. and the dead milkmen if they count.

Have we tackled token "indie rock" yet?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/Pavement_Crooked_Rain.jpg/220px-Pavement_Crooked_Rain.jpg

No man, wowee zowie if we're doing pavement

Token "indie" is neutral milk hotel imo. Merriweather post pavilion for new millennium indie

"slanted and enchanted" innit?

Slacker 90s "indie" is weezer or beck probably.

definitely not neutral milk hotel. that shit's for insiders.

slanted and enchanted didn't have a big novelty single though. beck is more rap than indie, right? weezer is a good call.

token anything really depends on where you stand, when you came in.

as i remember it, baby's first indie was "slanted and enchanted", yeah, or "daydream nation", "sebadoh III", "surfer rosa", "hairway to steven", something like that.

later it was like "perfect from now on", "the lonesome crowded west", "the boy with the arab strap" and/or "in the aeroplane".

"summer babe" = slanted's candy dangle

but maybe life's right, these records only appealed to the early adopters

beck and weezer out cuz they weren't indie by then-prevailing american rules. on major labels, and few bought stereopathic soul manure before mellow gold.

but wait! maybe that makes beck the right answer after all. gateway drug.

o wait, exile in guyville

etc

What I like to do (lol cheating) is go to rateyourmusic.com and see which albums have the highest number of ratings in a performer's discography. "Pet Sounds": over 12000; next-highest BBs is "Surf's Up", with 2173.

I didn't know that indie rock could be listened to in token doses

NV I dont think anyones slagging off the public. Pretty much all of these albums are great and id like to know why these albums crossover unlike the others in that genre. Also why do people not investigate a genre further rather than listening exclusively yo indie/rap/metal/techno or whatever.

Did you check out the Unusual Albums with Mass Appeal which sprung from the same FB chat sund4r and I had that caused this thread too.

aeroplane is entry level i think. but maybe that's just because i knew about it when i was 15. i introduced that album to a bunch of dylan fans in college and it was the best thing i could have done (in terms of getting those specific people to like me more.)

also re. the public, fuck those tokenistic fucks

i'm just kidding. i think people like a lot of different kinds of things but the music industry makes it hard for them to find interesting things because they underestimate what people will like/put their weight behind "proven" formulas

put anything on the radio and plenty would like it given the exposure. Sure, not anywhere as much as what is normally played , but it would still pick up new fans. But commercial radio is more interested in advertising demographics so its not gonna happen there but this is where the BBC should be leading the way.

the music industry makes it hard for them to find interesting things

there's only so much space in the racks.

Get Paul Gambaccini to the thread, he can tell the story about the post Kind Of Blue decline of Miles Davis in the 60's/70's.

there's only so much space in the racks.

― fit and working again, Saturday, July 27, 2013 3:57 PM (55 minutes ago)

death rattle lolz

Pretty much all of these albums are great and id like to know why these albums crossover unlike the others in that genre. Also why do people not investigate a genre further rather than listening exclusively yo indie/rap/metal/techno or whatever.

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, July 27, 2013 3:32 PM (1 hour ago)

speaking of implied discussions here, i'm wondering if there's any substantial difference between "token albums" and "entry points". legend is all the reggae half the world seem to need, maybe fortified with the soundtrack to The Harder They Come, but a lot of serious reggae fans probably first got hooked by those albums too. they're really just the most visible & celebrated examples of something that isn't otherwise a huge part of the modern pop dialogue.

i had a roommate for a while who was a HUGE dave matthews fan, played that shit all the time. one day, i was playing a copy of mingus live at antibes, and he just fucking flipped for it. basically stole it from me and played for weeks in nonstop rotation, like it was another doodly-doodly dave matthews album. at first i didn't mind...

he wasn't a jazz fan. i don't know that he went on to listen to any more jazz or even another mingus album. but he truly madly deeply LOVED live at antibes. hate to say this, but he probably loved it more than me, and call it one of my all-time favorites. that's honorable, afaic. he's got no obligation to the genre. maybe he's just monogamous.

musical monogamy thread: artists or genres from whom/which you're happy to own only one album

lots of worldly examples of that. mouskouri. makeba. aznavour. sparrow. esso steel band. ladysmith black mambazo. clancy brothers. planxty. kitaro. piaf. etc.

xp contenderizer, i think there are many mingus albums -- with their long, witty titles, raucous shouting, and lively rhythms -- that rock fans would find more engaging than "kind of blue", which is touted as the token "entry level" jazz album -- according to sources -- because a conspiracy on the part of rolling stone's editors to maintain the supremacy of 20th century canonical rock albums.

i mean... come on. he is pretending there is an audience when there obviously isn't one and he is talking to them in a dismissive manner. this is the kind of anecdotal shit rock fans live for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP6f_QpIal8

also there is just a lot of energy in this performance -- in the interactions between the different players -- and i think it gives a better sense of what's special about jazz compared to other genres than most of the token jazz records do.

mingus4lyfe

Also why do people not investigate a genre further rather than listening exclusively yo indie/rap/metal/techno or whatever.

maybe they do and see diminishing returns. pretty much every album here is great and arguably the best of its genre. it's like "I don't really like Indian food, but there's that one restaurant that is THE best Indian restaurant, so I fuck with that".

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ab9vpYD61qfpoovo1_500.jpg

Are there really that many people who own that but would never buy Confusion Is Sex?

(And if you extend beyond the very narrow pigeonhole of "no wave" to "punk" or "postpunk" or "noisy art-rock", that's far from a token album.)

(especially since I've never heard all of it but I've owned everything Sonic Youth released in the 80s, a bunch of things by Swans and Lydia Lunch, and a couple of Live Skull records)

like i was saying upthread, "token album" is often dependent on context and especially moment. no new york was reissued in 2005, to pitchfork acclaim (8.3), after having been out of print for ages. this was at a time when post-punk styles of all sorts were enjoying a renaissance. a new edition of mars' complete studio recordings arrived during the same year, along with a much-discussed collection of brazilian post-punk. two years earlier, soul-jazz had introduced their first new york noise survey (8.4), and the year before, 4 men with beards had repressed the james chance/black albums.

point is that a new generation of indie listeners, many freshly arrived from electroclash and interpol, were introduced to this stuff in the mid 2000s. in that moment & context, no new york might well have served as a token or gateway. this seems more likely though:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61pG1F%2B6t1L.jpg

http://mainlynorfolk.info/fairport/images/largerec/liegeandlief_ilps9115.jpg

Seeing some discussionon definition of genre above reminds me of reading about categorisation about 10 years ago. I read the book Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things by George Lakoff which was very interesting and left me with the conclusion that all categorisation was at least partialy artificial.
At one point he is talking about a system of categorisation based on proximity to archetypes, which I think comes from Lotfi Zadeh, but it was 10 yearsa go that i read the book. It seems to be a more natural means of categorising things, as far as I remember one bases what one categorises things as in terms of a central archetypal image for each category and then things are almost in concentric groupings of similarity to that thing until they are more in a different category. Or at least as far as the mind goes. Seems to be a handier way of dealing with music categorisation since it is very unlikely that anything is going to be black & white. New members come into bands with new influences that take things into borderline territory with other categories quite a bit.
& a listenable band has almost obligatorily to have some of its own individual style.
It's downfall may be in translating where you categorise things into somebody else's epistemology, which is likely to be a problem anyway with traditional categorisation in a lot of cases.
People will dismiss the existence of influences cited by the band tehmselves in order to hidebound firmly keep their categories rigid.

Also on a different aspect of this thread, I heard that the token jazz lp in a lot of rock collections was A Love Supreme. Though it was possibly 25 years ago when I heard that, so wonder to what extent these common tokenist lps change over time.

I guess I have a hard time with the concept of "token albums" when the albums are still relatively obscure albums and especially when they're representative of niche subgenres, although I have no problem with the idea of a token jazz album or an unusually popular bluegrass album. "Le Marteau sans Maître is SUCH the token post-war serial piece." "Oh, Leg End. That's the one rock in opposition album I see on everyone's shelf." Also, I'm sleep-deprived and grumpy.

"Le Marteau sans Maître is SUCH the token post-war serial piece." "Oh, Leg End. That's the one rock in opposition album I see on everyone's shelf."

That is a bit silly

Exactly.

I guess I have a hard time with the concept of "token albums" when the albums are still relatively obscure albums and especially when they're representative of niche subgenres

sure, but the discussion doesn't have to stop at "most common 'token'", right? the canonical "token jazz album" might not be the same as the young pop fan's token jazz album, or the metalhead's, or the avant gardist's.

where niche genres are concerned, i'd never suggest that everyone's mom has a copy of burned mind in the glove compartment, but it does seem to be a common placeholder among the curious few who've bumped into "noise music" but not delved deep. metal machine music served similarly for an older generation of listeners. while such albums aren't breakout favorites like almost blue and legend, they are high-visibility releases in a largely invisible genre. john zorn's naked city and boredoms' pop tatari occupy (or occupied) similar places in adjacent niches.

figure the token post-war serial composition would be something like stockhausen's kontakte. a work that found and still interests audiences outside dedicated avant-garde circles.

Ha, I forgot about that one. Yeah, Stockhausen's totally for poseurs. Boulez is the real deal.

I can imagine some saying that..
Boulez 4real carved into the arm might be a bit too far however

Also why do people not investigate a genre further rather than listening exclusively yo indie/rap/metal/techno or whatever.

maybe they do and see diminishing returns. pretty much every album here is great and arguably the best of its genre. it's like "I don't really like Indian food, but there's that one restaurant that is THE best Indian restaurant, so I fuck with that".

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger),

well, yes, quite possible however that isn't the case all of the time. Some are quite happy it seems going no further but I'm usually surprised a serious music fan wouldn't delve in further. But you could say the same about me & hip hop so erm..

put it another way - what if the mega-album is the genre? what if the big-selling stuff listed on here has as much in common with each other as it does with any other records?

I want to hear more about this pls

That's really got me thinking about this mysterious mega-album genre - like it's an emergent genre that forms itself out of 'standard' genres.