Shudder To Think "50,000 B.C." - C/D

Hot on the heels of their deconstructed glampunk masterpiece "Pony Express Record", the band signs to a major and delivers an album of polished linear jams. First the fans cry foul, then the band implodes. On second glance, this is simply a more expensive-sounding and less abstract version of the very same band, but this time offering their unique and skewed take on pop. The oddly-shaped riffs, weird poetry and golden throat are all present and accounted for albeit thinly disguised by a bigger recording budget and fewer dream logic arrangements. Ripe for reevaluation? Classic.

"Pony express" has some great moments ("x french tee shirt" has to be one of the greatest songs of the 90s) but I think it's willfully obtuse to the point where it's detrimental to the album overall. Havent heard this album, but maybe I would like it better.

Crazy talk, once you commit to PER's awkwardness it's many charms become manifest. 50,000 BC is neither here nor there imo, couple of good songs, one GREAT one, 'playground'.

"she's a skull" is just a 2:35 prog-glam masterpiece.
wedren doing "song of the siren" over the deep purple is cute.

"All Eyes Are Different" is basically postmodern doo wop. A very pretty, fucked up idea.

rfd: shudder to think

never liked his voice

i only finally heard this for the first time not long ago, after worshiping PER for ages and even hearing most of the earlier albums first, for some reason i didn't expect it to be as strong as it is. re-recording "Red House" seems like a warning sign that they were running out of strong accessible songs but who cares, it sounds great, maybe even better than the original.

so much of my favorite rock music ever is from that little '90s bubble where labels where throwing big recording budgets by bands who would never have enough radio success to recoup, so you get these really massive-sounding idiosyncratic niche appeal rock records.

maybe off topic, but do you have other recommendations like that?

oh man, i don't wanna derail the thread. might have another thread about it, hmm

I wonder how fucked up a record would sound had they tried (or given the rest of their careers to trying) to out-Pony Express PER.

Perhaps PER was the point of no return. But they must have known that to become relatively straightforward people would stop caring (critics, mainly)

Like full albums worths of songs like Kissi Penny would be hilarious

Pony Express Record was actually on Epic, so the "fans crying foul" thing applied to that record. 50,000 B.C. was also hugely influenced by the fact that Wedren was battling cancer at the time.

This is from an old fanzine interview I did with him where he talks a little bit about making 50,000 B.C. and them breaking up:

"When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin’s, which coincided with the last “Pony Express Record” support tour, which coincided with the beginning of the writing of “50,000 B.C.,” was the beginning of the end. Nathan no longer had any interest in what I was bringing to the table. Which, aesthetically, was related on one hand to “Pony Express Record,” and on the other hand to all of the ambient stuff I was doing. He wanted to do soul music. You know, his own version of soul music. He writes beautiful songs. I then went to the task of re-writing everything I had written for “50,000 B.C.,” ‘cause I was getting blank stares in the rehearsal space, and went and re-wrote everything when I was sick to suit the band. I think the general consensus was that everyone was disappointed with the performance of “Pony Express Record.” Which in retrospect, is ridiculous, because people who love that record feel so passionate about it. I wouldn’t say “50,000 B.C.” was a sell-out, by any stretch of the imagination, it’s just—personally, for me – a little bit convoluted. It doesn’t have the singular identity of “Pony Express Record,” or “First Love, Last Rites,” or “High Art,” or “Get Your Goat,” or “Funeral At The Movies.” I think you can feel it pulling in many directions. It didn’t quite ever arrive. Even though I love the songs and have many fond memories."

http://xymposium.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/vintage-craig-wedren-interview.html

Talking about Nathan, how do we feel about Mind Science Of The Mind?

maybe off topic, but do you have other recommendations like that?

― sleeve, Friday, August 16, 2013 6:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Free Mars by Lusk maybe?

nice interview! i saw Craig live around that time when he was doing the Baby project, thought it was really good.

CW really seems to have done a ton of great music since the STT breakup that people barely know about because it's spread across all these different projects and soundtracks and EPs. for a while on twitter he just gave away a series of unreleased tracks that all sounded great.

Yeah, he's a ridiculously talented dude. Shudder to Think are reuniting for a one-off at the 20th Anniversary concert for the Black Cat in DC next month!

(oh, and thanks! It was for an old DC zine called Held Like Sound)

ah cool. i used to look at held like sound back in the day.

so much of my favorite rock music ever is from that little '90s bubble where labels where throwing big recording budgets by bands who would never have enough radio success to recoup, so you get these really massive-sounding idiosyncratic niche appeal rock records.

an interesting time for sure - Scrawl's major label turn produced at least a pretty fuckin' memorable single, given that I can sing the chorus years later without having heard it since then

Pony Express Record was on a major. Get Your Goat was the last Dischord STT.

I see now someone already pointed that out. Woops.

I still like Get Your Goat better than any of the albums that came after although I remember when that last Dischord single came out "Hit Liquor" we played it pretty constantly.

Thx for pointing out my label chronology gaffe. This still leaves the narrative pretty much intact re: 50,000 and what it was or wasn't, possibly shining an even brighter spotlight on the evolution of their sound.

And big yes to CW (and NL)'s work being slept on since then. Re: Mind Science Of The Mind, that one in particular occupies the same orbit as PER. Co-starring Mary Timony, Joan Wasser and Kevin March, their live lineup even featured Jeff Buckley on bass briefly.

afaict it was never implied by me or anybody that Pony Express was not a major label record, not sure why we keep going over that

oh n/m it was in the original post. people seemed to keep talking about it in response to my post so i was confused.

I heard a while ago a sales figure of about 35,000 units for Pony Express - is this accurate?

That's probably not far off. It just seems that all 35,000 people who bought end up talking to each other about, so it seems more universally loved.

i bought PER at the record town in wheaton plaza, on cassette tape. love it still but oddly i think the STT album i put on most is the first love last rites ost.

the words held like sound provoked a weird memory rush. now to find my old corm cd.

Think I preferred 'The Mind Science' album to most STT output. 'Does It Rain In Your Womb' is particularly great. Didn't Nathan Larsen put out an album produced by Langer/Winstanley?...

Otm re: "Does It Rain...". One of the quieter, lovelier moments on the record.

Nathan Larson had a solo album on Artemis Records - did they produce that one?? He also published a couple of novels and does a bunch of soundtrack stuff now - he put out one album with a band called Hot One.

Hot One had some jamz, actually. It was him and Emm Gryner. CW's put out two solos but has mainly been doing soundtrack and TV work as well (United States Of Tara, Hung, Reno 911).

The one CW solo album I heard was laughably bad. Maybe I should hear the other one.

You probably heard the first one, which was more of a low-key affair. The other one is all over the place in terms of focus, but there are some legitimate STT-type freakouts on there.

Yeah, I listened to Wand last night and it was MUCH better.

wedrens's voice & delivery are better than ever, albeit that the material isn't as skewed. larson's crime is to be inoffensive / workmanlike / competent :(

Pretty sure there are a few Pony Express-era or Pony Express-like tracks on Wand. And if you listen closely, you can probably cherry pick a bunch of moments like that across all the solo LPs and tracks out there.