Cups of POLLy-Dewdrops' Drops -- ILM Artist Poll #35 -- The COCTEAU TWINS results thread

Drum-machine roll please !!

22 ballots were submitted. I will unveil the albums results today and The EP's will follow tomorrow. The tracks countdown will start thursday and should be spread on about 4 days.

19 people voted for albums. 11 different album got votes, so I will show them all.

11.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_starsandtopsoil.jpg
Stars and Topsoil (2000), 28 points, 1 vote

10.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_fourcalendarcafe.jpg
Four-Calendar Café (1993), 92 points, 3 votes

Hooray! (not for 4cc placing, but for the poll results in general)

[9.]
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_milkandkisses.jpg
Milk & Kisses (1996), 97 points, 3 votes

A great introduction to the Cocteaus:

8.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_pinkopaque.jpg
The Pink Opaque (1985), 106 points, 3 votes (1 #1 vote)

That #1 was me. Their best album, even if it is a compilation.

Missed the whole fucking poll ;_;

Will be gawking from the sidelines

We won't mind if you participate in the discussion ;-)

Thanks dude :-)

I avoided voting because I don't know enough of their catalog, but I'm excited to see the results!

The next one was billed as Harold Budd, Simon Raymonde, Robin Guthrie, Elizabeth Fraser:

7.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_moonmelodies.jpg
The Moon and The Melodies (1986), 117 points, 4 votes

"We never wanted it to be a Cocteau Twins album," continues Simon. "We even went to great lengths not to use the band name. We just listed all of our names individually. Everyone made a big deal out of it. Everyone had this idea that it was a really serious album. It wasn't. It was just something we wanted to do."—Simon Raymonde

An ambient comedy album with that notorious cut-up Harold Budd. I voted for it. Even if Memory Gongs is just Flowered Knife Shadows with a different name.

Songs on this are surprisingly strong.

I have no knowledge of Harold Budd's music outside of this collaboration. What would you recommend?

Ambient #2, Plateaux Of Mirror
The Pearl (w/Eno)
some people rep for the Obscure record, Pavilion Of Dreams, but I don't get that one at all.

btw I am also excited to see these results.

Pavilion of Dreams is better than those other 2 imo. Moon and the Melodies better than all of them tbf

Yeah, start with Plateaux of Mirror or the Pearl, then After the Night Falls/Before the Day Breaks with Robin Guthrie are quite nice. I like his recent trilogy with Clive Wright, especially Little Windows, but if you don't like Clive Wright's ambient guitar they'll fall flat. Curious about the stuff he recorded with John Foxx recently too... two or three CDs' worth, I think?

I'll check those out, thanks !

Next up, their debut:

6.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_garlands.jpg
Garlands (1982), 184 points, 6 votes

I really recommend the UK or Canadian Version as it contains these great extra tracks:

John Peel Radio Sessions Selections from 1982-1983:

Dear Heart
Hazel
Hearsay Please
Blind Dumb Deaf

Bonus Tracks (from unreleased first single):

Speak No Evil
Perhaps Some Other Aeon

The Top 5 are really the big favorites, as nearly everybody had at least 4 of them on their ballots. I was surprised but happy with the order.

5.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_bluebellknoll.jpg
Blue Bell Knoll (1988), 468 points, 14 votes, (3 #1 votes)

Surprise !

4.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_treasure.jpg
Treasure (1984), 497 points, 14 votes, (6 #1 votes)

haha BOOOO TOO LOW

but really, I can accept the criticisms of this record, it hasn't aged as well as some of the others - I blame the drum programming.

It does have the most #1 votes though, and was a front runner for a long time when I was compiling this.

3.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_hoh_1.jpg
Head Over Heels (1983), 512 points, 15 votes (3 #1 votes)

Just Liz and Robin. A great great album. A huge stylistical leap from Garlands too.

Again just Robin and Liz. My #1.

2.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_victorialand.jpg
Victorialand (1986), 530 points, 16 votes (3 #1 votes)

Simon did not appear on Victorialand as he was at work on the second This Mortal Coil LP, Filigree and Shadow.

love Victorialand but never been too keen on tracks 1 ("Lazy Calm") & 3 of side one. side 2 is great though - one of their best ever LP sides and tracks 2-4 on that side are one of the best 3-song runs in their whole catalogue!

I avoided voting because I don't know enough of their catalog, but I'm excited to see the results!

what Moodles said!

I can't say enough good things about Victorialand. The artwork, the song titles, the music... it's probably one of my top five albums of all time.

1.
http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_holv.jpg
Heaven or Las Vegas (1990), 542 points, 16 votes (3 #1 votes)

wow, that was kind of close!

I can't say enough good things about Victorialand. The artwork, the song titles, the music... it's probably one of my top five albums of all time.

― erry red flag (f. hazel), mercredi 18 septembre 2013 01:34 (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Same here.

RYM has Treasure and Heaven Or Las Vegas as the top 2, in that order - and they're frequently paired faves.

Heaven Or Las Vegas was a breakthrough album for them in the U.S. higher profile and won them many new fans.
I wonder if there's any difference between newer (HOLV+) and older fans in rating their albums.

for me,
Head Over Heels > Treasure but the latter's peaks are as strong or stronger.
Blue Bell Knoll > Heaven Or Las Vegas but BBK's peaks are still much stronger.

From the voting thread (about Victorialand):

Put it on the turntable, not noticing the little "45" on the label[...], and listened to "Lazy Calm" and the rest of Side 1 at 33. Blown away by how gorgeous it was. Went to flip the record and spotted the "45," played Side 1 again. Still utterly gorgeous. Fan for life.

― Hideous Lump, dimanche 15 septembre 2013 19:50 (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is eerily identical to my first encounter with Cocteau Twins.

so i own three out of the top five and it's the only stuff i do own by them.

Which ones ?

Treasure, Blue Bell Knoll and Heaven or Las Vegas plus This Mortal Coil stuff.

The ones you're missing are my 2 faves. I'm pretty sure you'd enjoy them.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2DFHjIvdqCI/UjkxvRV3eiI/AAAAAAAAAl4/Sacv2Iodjkc/w793-h595-no/downsize%25281%2529.jpg

Garlands SCARED me off of their early stuff for the longest time. Not fond of the post punk sound one bit. Stunned that Treasure is so low! I also don't get the criticisms about the production or the drum sound -- I never notice anything to the album's detriment.

PS when are you rolling out the song titles?

Surprised at the album results. I just assumed Head Over Heels and Treasure would make the top two. Heaven or Las Vegas is a great album but I've always though the first half is so much better than the second.

Looking forward to this poll, listening through their albums to get my list ready was a lot of fun.

Garlands is prob my fave! Not that I like to playfaves with these guys.

surprised Heaven Or Las Vegas is so highly rated, thought it was disappointing when it was released tbh. haven't listened to it in years though, maybe time has been kind?

Definitely, it's so rich.

I'm pleased with the result there, I think I voted BBK #1 because I feel Treasure is kind of trapped by technology in its sound. Best Liz vocals though, and most alluringly strange.
I have to say I admire Head Over Heels like a glacier or a sunset, but I feel nothing when I listen to it. It's so glassy and harsh. And yet I deeply love Garlands which is even colder and more remote.

Nobody loves "Theft and wandering around lost" except me? That song is like a bath on a cloud in heaven. It's warm & cosy & a little sad, in one word pure bliss. Additionally the lyrics are about her body, maybe this is the song about menstruation?

I always thought that song was about... well, rape, to be blunt. Abuse at the very least. She was abused by a family member as a kid, and I figured the song mightve been about that, seeing as she was doing therapy and stuff at that point.

"The man is an offender
He took my value
And I give back his shame
And I take back my power"

Its jarring when she started singing actual,emotional real stuff,because some of it was fairly dark. Reminds me of how TMBG sound so happy but a lot of their songs are miserable lyrically!

And on that note actually, and I'm sure ive mentioned this before: love how "Rilkean Heart" and "Tishbite" are about Jeff Buckley. And his song "Morning Theft" is about her.

Sorry, Half-Gifts, not Tishbite!

(tho, I guess HG could be about Robin as well now I think about it)

Oh and, sorry to blather on so much, but "Theft" has one of my fave ever lines of hers in it: "keep cutting myself on the edges of reality". So awesome.

i think you are right about theft, trayce, actually it's quite obvious, i think the lyrics go on like that:

My body is my own
My body is mine alone
And I deserve protection
And I can create it for you
Is this what my body said?
Use me
Drain me
Fall around me
Is this what my body said?
Engulf me
I'm already dead

it's even more so an absolute miracle of a song. how can someone write such beautiful music about such a terrible experience? that's incredible.

Indeed :)

"Theft, And Wandering Around Lost" is the first track I regretted not including after alex in mainhattan repped hard for it on 2 other threads including the poll setup. was amazed when I looked up those lyrics! Four Calendar Cafe is hella underrated, side 1 is pure gold!

thanks to digging due to this poll I've also discovered new faves like "Mud And Dark" and other FCC & M&K era b-sides.

woulda put "Itchy Glowbo Blow" higher too had I relistened before submitting ballot. also regret not voting for "Suckling The Mender".

who's the other "Otterley" vote? good on ya! no love for "Feet-Like Fins" (OG Victorialand version)?

I love "Feet-Like Fins". That whole album is incredible. I'm surprised I was the only one who voted for "The Tinderbox (Of a Heart)". It's so dramatic.
But I love the Gothteaus (lol love that name), I also gave "But I'm Not" it's only vote.

paul, i am happy that you appreciate fcc and esp. theft, and wandering around. a minor correction though: in the poll setup i didn't mention the song, but you quoted me from the old album poll thread.

Speaking of "Otterley" does any French speaker think she's actually using French words in this? I hear "On est bien", "On est ensemble", "Saveur de toi", "Doucement", etc...

great poll! thanks, LRLR!

my ballot:

1. The Spangle Maker
2. Pearly Dewdrops’ Drops
3. Lorelei
4. Aikea-Guinea
5. Sugar Hiccup
6. Cherry-Coloured Funk
7. Millimillenary
8. Kookaburra
9. Frosty The Snowman
10. Iceblink Luck
11. Wax And Wane
12. Heaven Or Las Vegas
13. Donimo
14. Mud And Dark
15. Sigh’s Smell Of Farewell
16. Hitherto
17. Bluebeard
18. Circling Girl
19. Feathers-Oars-Blades
20. Musette And Drums

re: French "Otterley" - I'm convinced I hear "ce soir la", but I'm sure there's some lyric site interpretations to tell me otherwise.

I really do believe some of the obsessives (originally on the Cocteau Twins website/s?) who've subjected the music to overlistening have uncovered some closer-to-true lyrics. for example, I always heard "Fotzepolitic" as "seams sew me back to you", but missed the word 'bounce' which I now can hear! so: "see and saw bounce me back to you".

on the other hand, I own the Japanese LP of Garlands complete with lyric sheet so I see where it can go horribly wrong and comical.

as in, the printed lyrics are incorrect, or having the correct ones lets you see how wrong everybody else was?

I think I was the other Otterley voter! I like it for its presaging of Victorialand.

I don't think they've ever provided full lyrics, just the snippets on the first 2 albums.
the Japanese record label made a valiant but doomed effort to work out all the Garlands lyrics - quite funny to read.
haven't looked at it in a while but I wouldn't be surprised if they flubbed even the provided snippet placements.

"Otterley" has always been my fave. I think it's just one open chord, tuned to minor-major 9th (minor 3rd, major 7th), played in 4 positions with a linking melody. probably my fave harmonic progression of theirs too. also once had (still have?) a demo version of it on a music rag (NME/MM?) freebie cassette.

It's interesting that quite a few of us have so much of our ballots represented, which suggests that we've hit upon a canon, no?

I think it might be because it took only 3 votes to get into the top 50, and we are posting top twenties.

Thanks for doing this poll! Cocteau love on ILX so heartening. My ballot (a Top 10):

Those Eyes, That Mouth
Rilkean Heart
Cherry-Coloured Funk
Fotzepolitic
Blue Bell Knoll
Lorelei
Carolyn's Fingers
Amelia
Ivo
Summerhead

The Top 50 is broken down like this:

Treasure: 7 songs, 1249 points
Heaven Or Las Vegas: 7 songs, 1189 points
Blue Bell Knoll: 7 songs, 868 points
Head Over Heels: 5 songs, 858 points
Victorialand : 5 songs, 590 points
Milk & Kisses: 1 song, 107 points
Garlands: 1 song, 99 points
The Moon and The Melodies: 1 song, 96 points

Love's Easy Tears: 3 songs, 630 points
The Spangle Maker: 3 songs, 601 points
Aikea Guinea: 2 songs, 503 points
Sunburst & Snowblind: 2 songs, 360 points
Tiny Dynamine: 1 song, 206 points
Echoes in a Shallow Bay: 2 songs, 190 points

The Pink Opaque: 1 song, 152 points
It'll End In Tears: 1 song, 125 points
Lonely Is An Eyesore: 1 song, 111 points

^Presented this way makes a lot of sense to me - i.e. feels about right.

Except I voted for the "Sunburst..." version of Sugar Hiccup. If everyone else did the same that puts it (rightly) top of the EPs ;-)

x-post: interesting stats!

here's a correction on the "Otterley" music:

open chord is: g,b♭,d,g,a,d
and the harmonic effect of the melody over the shifted open chord is:

gm9 (no 7th) 4 bars (=same thing as gm add9)

cm9 (no 7th) 2 bars -> e♭mM9 2 bars
cm9 (no 7th) 2 bars -> g♭mM9 2 bars

on the repeat the melody over the gm9 goes 9th->octave->minor 7th->major 7th at which point yields: gmM9
so if you want a good example of what minor(3rd)-major(7th) chords sound like (with added 9th), "Otterley" is it!
there's an additional drone which could be from the reverb or sustained notes (probably from/related to one of the chords above)

Martyn Bates is another guitarist from same era who made great use of (droning) fourths in chords, especially on the high (b and e) strings, for example "Bright Play Of Eyes".

Many thanks for your time and effort SebLRLR. And for bearing with me with my duplicates and so on

SONGS
Lorelei
sugar hiccup
lazy calm
aikea - guinea
heaven or las vegas
athol brose
Pandora
Pearly dew drops…
Carolyn's fingers
Kookaburra
Pink Orange red
Cherry coloured funk
spooning good singing gum
Cico buff
For Phoebe…
Iceblink luck
from the flagstones
Feathers Oar Blades (that's off an EP right?)
Orange appled
Fluffy Tufts
Those eyes that mouth

Albums
Treasure
Heaven or..
Blue Bell
Victorialand
Head over heels

Otterley is so good, it just missed my ballot.

27. "Frou-frou Foxes in Midsummer Fires"
27. "Frou-frou Foxes in Midsummer Fires"
27. "Frou-frou Foxes in Midsummer Fires"
27. "Frou-frou Foxes in Midsummer Fires"
27. "Frou-frou Foxes in Midsummer Fires"
27. "Frou-frou Foxes in Midsummer Fires"

******

WTF?!?!!?!?!?!!?!!??!!?

******
#ambientaggro_outofbounds

i've been scanning through this thread, loving it. loving every single post. and then i get to #27, and the song that i expected to be top 3, it's...# 27. only 5 votes! wtf did frou-frou do to you?

the chilly verses, like cigarettes outside the garage in winter, and then inside to whatever place that the chorus is, whatever is happening there - that is the very warmest, best place.

WAIT A SECOND

#65: In the Gold Dust Rush?

no. no. nO NONONONONONO

this is not right. i demand a re-poll

listen to it, it's this weird jangly moment - imagine if felt came up with 2 or 3 more riffs like this one, it's fucking amazing

to me the verse is an instant classic, it sounds soooo iconic and good

#ambientaggro_outofbounds

lmao

I would’ve def voted frou frou high

arguably the reverb is on too high. i get that. i'm tolerant of high reverb, others aren't. (others who can't appreciate a heavenly fucking thing when th-)

I would’ve def voted frou frou high

― brimstead,

when i read this, i immediately think

we need a re-poll

these are different times. this is 2021!!!

you know what, though, now that it's 10 minutes later and i've sobered up, i recognize that the vast majority of my top 20 appeared in the top 40 of this poll. also, ALL of these songs are so lovely. i'm smitten. i was kidding about my aggro thing, it's a silly thing because cocteau twins are so NON-aggressive and it really hits the spot for me sometimes (a person who sometimes goes aggressive, i have to admit, when i care, because goddammit! etc, but cocteau twins are the other side of that, just the real good stuff for me. <3 oof oof

the whole album is chilling in the sauna and then rolling around in the snow

I'm still sore that Eperdu placed at #82

Stumbled across this on YT and was startled to see that Will Heggie played *fretless* bass, which I can hear on the early records now that I know to listen for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alQUyaybZgo

Frou-Frou Foxes is a good song, but it is best heard as the capstone to the Heaven or Las Vegas album. It sacrifices its quality as a song to the greater good of the entire record.

HOly shit. All this time, for years, I thought she sang "the devil bites dirty we wax and wane", and just today I found someone's alternate lyric suggestion that the chorus is "the devil bystanding, we wax and wane".

And if you listen to that live version above, fuck me, that IS what she sings. And it makes more fucking sense, as well.

Also, the first line is "carrion grows, [?] from within" and I cant work that one word out.

how about: we’re never quite steady, we wax and wane

I wish there were a way for the final results to be pinned to the tops of these threads rather than having to scroll or do a search to somewhere three quarters down

if we redid this poll I’d seriously consider bumping some of my previous song picks for Ups, Theft And Wandering Around Lost, Mud And Dark and An Elan (latter’s one of their only not-available-on-vinyl cuts that I know of).

There is this helpful thread, dog latin, which has links to all the results posts:

ILM Ballot Polls: where to find the results threads

ha I always thought it was "the devil lies steady"