Ween: Chocolate or Cheese?

Then, I realized that 3 guys out of the whole slew of musicians can have the same ideas (especially with the proprietary Roland COSM technologies for home recording that were available at the time... I have one of these gadgets and let me tell you, sounding "like Ween" happens as soon as you start playing with the fake amplifier sounds [which actually sound very real] and patch studio effects [which sound like they were made in a studio])...

So, no, I don't think Beck ripped them off. I wouldn't be surprised if he never heard of them until later, actually. Mellow Gold is a pretty amazing piece of radio-friendly strangeness, where Ween have had problems using their strange studio effects to any other ends than a backdrop for dropping acid or smoking pot. They've certainly gotten better at pop song writing (Chocolate & Cheese) but, apparantly, lost what magic they'd been steadily inventing on "White Pepper", which really sounds like an unnecessary Beatlesy band not saying anything really funny orimportant, which is a shame.

All this aside, I really like Ween when I'm in the mood for them. That country album is the most amazing piece of paradox I've ever heard. I don't like country music... but, yes I do. But do I? Yeah, I guess I do! However, "God, Ween, Satan: The Oneness", "The Pod", and "Pure Guava" can not be played on my stereo anymore. There's nothing left there for me AT ALL. I'm like, "Yeah, 'marble tulip juicy tree, it's where I long to be, when I gnaw on the tulip, it'll wish that it was me...' that's funny... no wait, it wasfunny when I was 18 years old and on acid all the time." And, this is what you call babbling, so I'll stop. I like 'em though!

It's strange how few white Americans play around with black pop, isn't it? Ween do, I guess Beck does, Eminem, but not many others. Why is that? Racial tension? Brits seem to have no problem bastardizing black American music for some reason.

I'm sure America's a lovely place and the people are absolutely wonderful (apart from that horrid Dubya).

The best thing about British music over the last 10 years or so is that it has been a complete racial melting pot. I don't see that in the U.S to anything like the same extent.

That's like saying there's so few white D&B/jungle Dj's in the UK.

As for hiphop from over there, i admit im pretty out of touch with it. im sure its put a different spin on the genre. I think it an odd concept...British hiphop..kind of like touching your grandmother's leg.

SleepTillItHurts, I can tell you can't get enough of that strange bacteria A. Robinson. Don't deny it. And Dubya's an incurable virus that's gonna make us all sick pretty soon. Be thankful you don't know who Anne Widdecombe is. She makes the other Anne seem a positive delectation in comparison.

As for British hip hop, you're right that it is an odd concept.... not sure about touching my grandmother's leg exactly... she'd batter me. The good thing about pop culture over here is that it takes things like hip hop and twists it into new forms such as drum 'n' bass and trip hop, in the same way that Jamaicans took American R 'n' B and turned it into ska and reggae. I think that "bastardization" is the essence of great pop, and I think the Brits have done it very well historically. We'll probably never do rock and roll or rap anywhere near as good as Americans so we've had to pick up on what we can to create our own beautiful offspring.

As for house and techno -- have there been any really original artists emerge? I can only think of Moby, and he's pretty shit in my book. There doesn't seem to be much compared with The Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Underworld, Basement Jaxx, etc. Also, didn't white folks in the States only pick up on "electronica" once we flogged it back to you? Having said all this, dance music in Britain seems rather stagnant at the moment. We probably need a few new innovations from the U.S. to kickstart us again.

Why are some people unaware of realising that, in our highly mobile, modern society, nothing is "beyond" us and nothing is a strange, alien invasion? Why do people still think the exchange of music and culture is "an odd concept"?

yeah, Jonathan i see where u r coming from about those artists. Moby is such crap, and thank God he's not all we have. those artists you mentioned are hugely popular on both sides of the pond, but they are pop. (Ed and Tom Chemical could knock the shit out of those irritating Prodigy turds any day, if u ask me....and the Chemical Brothers are also much truer to warehouse-style techno than Progeny)

but i digress...heh

our techno/house stars are fairly anonymous to pop radio here...but we sure have them. Richie Hawtin a.k.a Plastikman, Barry Weaver, John Acquaviva, John Kelley, DJ Dan all have notoriety over here, but mainly with enthusiasts. all these were all progenitors to the hordes of soundalikes popping up like acne. as for white hiphoppers, there's way too many here and in the States. we just don't hear them (thank Jesus) because they mostly suck ox.

p.s. I have this hunch that Anne R. gets off listening to nitzer ebb's 'that total age'. what a rotten mental picture that is.

back to the ween thing: their new stuff is kinda stinky. 'white pepper' and 'the mollusk' were terrible records. i love the total retardedness of 'pure guava' and 'chocolate & cheese' though. they have great helium voices.

I can't avoid linking Anne Robinson with Billie Jo Spears, myself (ah, Radio 2 circa 1991, God how the cultural corpses won't leave my mind four years after the final act).

I just kinda like the whole "let's smoke lots of pot and take lots of drugs and record till we pass out" ethic of their early records ("The Pod" exemplifies this to a tee). Maybe it's just me, but they remind me a helluva lot of Frank Zappa (though with less musical dexterity and more pop smarts).

Mach 10 at sudden speed

so... they're still alive

Witness Ween’s debut at The Mann in Philadelphia on Friday, September 27, 2024, celebrating 30 years of “Chocolate and Cheese.” The band will perform a full set, including the classic album released on the same day in 1994.

Presale tickets will be available Wednesday, December 6 at 10am ET: https://ween.shop.ticketstoday.com

Tickets go on sale Friday, December 8 at noon ET at ween.com.

It’s so strange that a band known for being studio hounds have turned into a touring band with no new material released in a long time. It pays the bills and I guess they enjoy it, but I would love to see what older Ween would write. After Cucaracha, I had been hoping for more stuff like Your Party and Lullaby.

Always a good excuse to rewatch this all time classic

I think the problem is they've just drifted apart. it's kind of sad but that's life. I mean from the beginning it was always about the two of them, ninth grade buddies who discovered they had the same sense of humor and esoteric taste in music (or parents with good taste, more likely), who had nothing to do but hang out all day, recording a bunch of shit until finally rounding into something decent. and then they became adults together who managed to bring their weirdness into the world, partying hard and developing addictions and getting good enough to make any kind of music they wanted. even when they were a full band when it came to writing and recording the basic tracks it was always just the two of them. and then they went through their divorces, their drug addictions came to a head, they got dropped from their label - but they still went through it together. and they made Quebec which was a damn fine album. but I think after that they started to go their own way. you could tell in interviews that they were getting irritated with each other and La Cucaracha just felt so labored. its a good album still but to me it comes off as a pile of Gene solo tracks and a pile of Dean solo tracks. Dean could manage drugs and alcohol fine but Gene had a real problem. and I think they just both wanted to be done with it.

unfortunately that's how friendship goes. you can be super close for decades but once you start drifting things pretty much never go back to the way they are. they're on the road now because Ween draws 20x the crowd that either one of them solo would. and they have an incredible catalogue which is still incredibly popular for some reason. I do really hope they put out new stuff some day....but I would be pretty nervous about it

Yeah, I get it. It's just... they're touring all the time, you think they would get bored enough to want to write music! But that's just me putting what I want on them. I've read interviews with Micky where he complains about how people don't buy music anymore, so what's the point in making it which... I get, but that sounds so wimpy that it surprises me that it's coming from him of all people.

It's been interesting seeing what they do away from each other; it definitely helps one see the roles they played in Ween. Aaron's stuff is so heartfelt and naked, while Micky is straight meathead rock. "My Own Bare Hands" was the low point for me. Musically boring, lyrically dumb.

Quebec is the best.

“My Own Bare Hands” is incredible

They seem to like each other well enough on stage these days (this wasn’t necessarily the case in the years leading up to the breakdown) but I’d guess they don’t really spend the kind of quality time together that would facilitate writing new music…and if you can draw more people to your shows now than you ever could the first go around why put in all the work of writing new material when you can do whatever the hell you want all day and just coast on the work you did 30 years ago?

I think neither of them have released any solo music since they restarted playing again, which offers some hope

(although I think Dean's second album did actually come out then, but was already good to go)

I pulled La Cucaracha off the mobile library shelf one afternoon at age 12, and I could not believe what I was listening to when "My Own Bare Hands" came on. I think I replayed that song minimum 10 times in a row the first time I heard it, cackling louder each time, but with a close eye on the bedroom door and hand on the pause button in case my parents stumbled upon this dark magic I'd discovered. Stepping back, it's hilarious to me that "My Own Bare Hands" is one of the songs I am most sentimental about, but that's just the way the it gets drawn up!

Will defend La Cucaracha to the death, the highs are so high they completely pave over the lows.

also lol I didn't link to the video in my post above
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzYykIA1xVg

I think La Cucaracha was the first album I listened to that made me realise music could be interesting and fun rather than postured and bombastic (thinking the Good Charlotte/Avril Lavigne albums my sisters got me started on). Ween kind of the perfect band to get kids hooked on interesting music. Look forward to making a SFW Ween mixtape when my time comes

It's heartwarming enough that Mickey and Aaron were able to return to playing together as a one-(three)-off, let alone continue to do so for another approaching-a-decade. Presumably Dean, Claude, Dave and Glenn still get to improvise within the material every night they play together, and the limited nature of their touring is designed to provide a work/life balance that compromises around everyone's personal needs. Bless 'em all.

(and hope that Chocolate & Cheese date turns into a whole tour.)

A big part of the joy of a Ween concert is how deep their catalog is and whatever song comes next is going to be dope as fuck. Doing an album in order sounds less exciting to me.

But... I would be stoked for a Pod tour.

the PR that Stan posted specifically says they will be playing a full set

there's a clip, even : https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_s55u5mZRXr1qlw6o6_720.mp4

oh that didn't embed - just go to ween.com then - and apparently they've been doing smallish tours all this time, I didn't know (last September, next February too: https://ween.com/tour )

Touring is a challenge for papa gene I think. Hence all the mini tours and one off shows. If they never wrote anything new I could live with that. They could just drip feed their demos out in compilations and the fans would eat it up. I would anyway.

Most of the demos are out there. Browntracker used to be a site for sharing live recordings and demos and all of the early tape-only stuff. It's not around anymore but I'm sure those things can be found. When I went mad for Ween it was my equivalent of Phish. There's gobs of stuff out there. My wife got tired of it real fast.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but I believe Gene doesn’t want to write new Ween songs partly because he’s worried how getting in that headspace would affect his sobriety.

At this point, I'm convinced there's at least one entire album's equivalent of unreleased fully formed songs for every official Ween LP between The Pod and Quebec. During that time, they could have been pumping out records at the same rate as Guided By Voices if they wanted to. Not sure if Dean did this on purpose, but he gave 4-track tapes to some fans who have been uploading their own mixes and masters on Youtube. They have enough stray tracks laying around for several more Shinolas, So I don't think they need to write anymore if they're not feeling it. It's somewhat tragic that about 100 killer songs from this era are so hard to find, and I'm surprised no one has compiled an updated online database of every song just yet (not to my knowledge anyway). Numero Group should hit them up if they haven't already.

100 killer songs? We’ll need evidence of that

Ween Archived is the spot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCOY28rrd1Y

The youtube channel is @weenarchive

I don't think there are 100 album worthy jams out there, but they have a LOT of stray tracks and a lot of them are really good. At one point there was a 4 CD collection of b-sides and uncollected things, that had the best of it.

I found this:https://mega.nz/folder/6UFV1LZY#0JL6qwxFZJRcLSHchIb0cg/folder/TA1CGZAR

Favorite unreleased or b-sides or whatever:

So Long, Jerry
Sweet Texas Fire
Puerto Rican Power
Skycruiser
Homo Rainbow
I Smoke Some Grass (Really Really High)
Ode To Rene
Mango Woman
Now I'm Freaking Out
Booze Me Up and Get Me High
Cornbread Red
I Got No Darkside
Vallejo
Mountains & Buffalo
Ooh Va La
The Stallion Pt. 4
The Stallion Pt. 5
Maria (with Project Pollen)
Oh My Little Country Cottage
Ambrosia Parsley
Hello Johnny
Leave Deaner Alone
Pass The Bong
Albino Sunburned Girl
Joe Cannoli
The Argus Pt. 2

I take it back, they might have 100 album worthy songs. There's really a ton out there, it's pretty striking. And that's not even looking at the Pre-Godweensatan stuff (which is generally not very good) or Z-Rock Hawaii, the album with the Boredoms (which is VERY good).

All of the albums have gobs of demos with lots of extra songs, if you get deep into Ween there's really no end to it all.

But the country/Mollusk b-sides might be my favorite of it. Booze Me Up & Get Me High, I've Got No Darkside, So Long, Jerry.

Yeah I'm not counting the unlistenable 80s stuff.

About 2 years ago I found "I'll Wait," "Louise," "The Wind," a studio cover of "Champagne Jam," "She'll Just Get You," and 6 or 7 others that were entirely new to me. It was like finding a lost Ween album.

Torrents or links please

the Ween Unreleased Anthology v3.5 was last updated in 2017 but looks pretty comprehensive: https://mega.nz/folder/6UFV1LZY#0JL6qwxFZJRcLSHchIb0cg

( found that via this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/ween/comments/5shi2h/ween_unreleased_anthology_35 )

This is from the Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLMTdqgVuOY

oh, Cow_Art's link is a subfolder of that Anthology, I see

Deaner really didn’t want to do Shinola, I wouldn’t count on a volume 2.

The All Request Live album is very good as well, and has the full set of Stallion songs. It also has a great version of “Where’d the Cheese Go” that is modeled on Prince’s “Bob George”.

The Pod & Guava demos will get you stoned to the bone. Your ear holes will smell of reefer for days.

what I don't understand about this band is, if you're such talented songwriters and musicians, why dedicate your careers to making this kind of... bullshit?

this is based on hearing the mollusk and the one in the title so maybe their serious emo stuff is elsewhere but I might actually like some of this stuff if the lyrics weren't basically a middle finger the whole time

what are some bands you like with good lyrics

investigate what Brown means in the Ween universe, xpost

Investigate what brown means to you

They have a lot of songs that aren't irreverent bullshit, but it's easy to miss them because the goofy stuff is what gets the attention. Quebec is a great divorce album and there's a lot of stuff there that deals with more adult themes. "I Don't Want It" for example. But there are songs like that sprinkled throughout their catalog and that's what makes it work.

But really, how much of The Mollusk is a middle finger? "Waving My Dick In The Wind," "The Blarney Stone," and "Pink Eye?" "She Wanted to Leave," "Cold Blows The Wind," "It's Gonna Be Alright," those are sincere songs. It's fine if Ween's not for you, I didn't like them for a long time. But if you get on their wavelength even those goofy songs start to become essential. It's not Zappa; they actually care about things and there's a lot of emotion in their work.

Fuck dude, "A Tear For Eddie?" That's beautiful.

Quebec is a divorce album?

My reading of “Eddie” is that it’s about Eddie VH somehow. Still working out the meaning of the flubbed note?

It’s about Eddie Hazel who died in 1992

what are some bands you like with good lyrics

art bears

"A Tear For Eddie?"

my "gotta hand it to em", the only track I'd put on a playlist, lack of lyrics helps, I love Eddie Hazel too

how much of The Mollusk is a middle finger?

maybe less than I thought - I probably haven't heard it for 10 years and I remember it as being like stonehenge: the album. I never thought to take "waving my dick" seriously but if they wanted me to they should have called it something else

is brown shit

art bears

Maybe Ween just isn't for you.

I'll take these guys over zappa even if they share some of his annoying traits unlike him they do actually seem to take joy in their music regardless of what I think of it

Yeah, they're harmless and some of their stupidest songs are also some of their best songs.

gen X 100 gecs?

I wouldn't go so far as to call Quebec a concept album about divorce, but a lot of the songs are about somebody going through serious life troubles, including divorce. "It's Gonna Be A Long Night," the relentless partying that gets traded in for a different kind of drug in "Zoloft." Being paranoid and not wanting to leave the house ("So Many People in the Neighborhood."). Wanting a loved one to help them keep their shit together because they are losing it: "Happy Colored Marbles." Being perceived as a goofy performer but there's all these FEELINGS writhing underneath: "Fancy Pants." Lost in the fog: "Captain." "Chocolate Town" is about Hershey, PA, a couple hours away from where they live in New Hope. Favorite lyric: "Sayin' 'Shit's for real now' like I don't know." "I Don't Want It" = I don't want a divorce. "If You Could Save Yourself" is when it all falls apart.

That's how I've heard it anyways. It's a dark, sad album. "Among His Tribe" is gorgeous.

I take it back, they might have 100 album worthy songs. There's really a ton out there, it's pretty striking. And that's not even looking at the Pre-Godweensatan stuff (which is generally not very good) or Z-Rock Hawaii, the album with the Boredoms (which is VERY good).

yea I've downloaded several long B-sides/demos comps, over 100 tracks worth, and there's still a ton I don't have. so much of it is great, it's crazy, they could've easily dropped 3-4 more great albums between C&C and quebec. some of these songs are so good it's almost a bit irritating what actually *did* make the album. It really sucks Dean won't do a Shinola 2, since the first volume IMO is about as good as any of their actual LPs. idk what making that really involved though, sounds like they had to clean up/re-record a lot to get these things in release-worthy shape

Quebec is a divorce album?

I think they were both going through it at the time, in fact I think some astute listeners have pointed out that the woman Gene is referring to on "I Don't Want It" is "Sarah". I think Gene has said "Oh My Dear (Falling in Love)" and "Stay Forever" is her too. also they were dropped by their label and starting to become a bit mentally unbalanced ("Zoloft") so yeah kinda explains why it's mostly a downer. outside of the opener, of course

To answer Left's concern - I think the dumb/jokey stuff is what makes them real. Surely we all know guys like that, who are funny and vulgar but DO have real emotions. most bands with those sorts of people will pick one lane or the other but I respect how Ween just blends it all together and trusts the listener can get exactly where they're at. surely it won't be everyone's bag but yeah, still a far way off from Zappa. I don't think they have anything that's needlessly cruel, outside of maybe some stuff on the first album

I don't think they have anything that's needlessly cruel, outside of maybe some stuff on the first album

Ween should write new music for Chris Cutler's lyrics to "Beautiful As the Moon - Terrible as an Army with Banners" for the sake of Left.

I've only heard The Mollusk, after reading some online reviewers who called it the best album of the 90s. I'd say it has about six enjoyable songs, and that Guided by Voices were twice as catchy, at least as funny, and less factitious.

Xposts, “what Deaner was talking about” on this album a perfect mix of dumb silly Ween vocab/pastiche musicality mixed with sincerity. I think it’s the quintessential Ween song. I don’t know if anyone likes Ween in spite of the mix of these qualities, that mix is what makes Ween Ween. And if neither of those qualities are to your taste that’s totally fine

I hate that Chocolate and Cheese is the only Ween album not on spotify in my region.

Hope we get a 30th anniversary edition on vinyl next year. The copies on discogs are too expensive.

I don't know Ween that well, never heard The Mollusc. my late wife was into their early stuff so we had God Ween Satan and The Pod, I liked the first one quite a bit although obviously a lot of it is quite silly.

I bought White Pepper cheap 2nd hand somewhere and it's much less silly but has some good songs on it. I like Exactly Where I'm At.

I suspect Gene would and could write his share of songs for a 2024 Ween album in a month and they'd be great beyond the last album

Both of his solo albums are pretty good. Marvelous Clouds is a lot better than I expected it could be.

Ween Radio is back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxThzu6Bcrw

every time I listen to the GodWeenSatan live album I think "wow something's got into Gener tonight" and I just realized it's probably the fact that the show was 3 days after 9/11

The second disc on the deluxe edition sounds like a lost beck alb from the mid 90s