Pop music’s race problem: How white artists profit from mocking hip-hop (from Salon)

Pop music’s race problem: How white artists profit from mocking hip-hop
From "Royals" to "Thrift Shop," many of the year's pop hits have been built on tone-deaf critiques of rap
DANIEL D'ADDARIO

Lorde’s single “Royals” has been at No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for seven weeks — enough time for pop listeners to begin expressing their discontent at the perceived politics of the song. A common critique has been that the young New Zealand native is specifically mocking the tropes of hip-hop when she sings about rejecting “Cristal, Maybach, diamonds on your timepiece / Jet planes, islands, tigers on a gold leash.”

“Royals” arguably critiques popular music across genres. But its mockery of hip-hop may stand out in part because that mockery places it squarely in the middle of American pop music right now. As rock critic Chris Weingarten pointed out on Twitter, two of this year’s other long-running No. 1 hits are racially problematic in the extreme.

Chris Weingarten @1000TimesYes
Between "Royals," "Thrift Shop, & "Harlem Shake" 18 WEEKS of 2013's Billboard No. 1s have been about shaming or exploiting African-Americans

Anyone who thinks it would be easy for a black artist to cut through all the noise and express himself or herself should look to the case of Kanye West. His most recent album “Yeezus” is many things, but it’s definitely not solely focused on materialistic tropes to the exclusion of serious thought. After his lynching-themed “Blood on the Leaves” performance at the VMAs was entirely overshadowed in the press by Miley Cyrus (with whom West has reportedly collaborated), West gave an interview in which he described his influence in the music and fashion industries. West was lampooned as an egomaniac on Jimmy Kimmel’s talk show, then when he defended himself as a legitimately influential artist in a Kimmel appearance, his quotes were framed as “ridiculous” or crazy. It’s much easier to frame people as mindlessly materialistic if they don’t talk back — or if you don’t let them.

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/21/pop_musics_race_problem_how_white_artists_profit_from_mocking_hip_hop/

I'm not versed on pop music as much as many of you all but hasn't culture appropriation (for better or worse and usually white folks appropriating black culture) been around forever (i.e. Rock and roll itself, Pat Boone, Elvis, Beastie Boys, etcetera)...

Here's someone in 1969 accusing The Beatles and Cream of ripping off black artists.

appropriation isn't quite the same as the trend - NB i don't know if there really is a trend - that this piece is identifying. as the quotes you've used point out, the records mentioned here specifically mock or attack values and iconography associated with black artists. this plays out more as culture war than culture colonization.

Also, we have a tendency to hold the current era to more modern standards of ethical behaviour than we would previous eras.

Critiquing aggressive materialism is fine but you are always going to run into trouble if your only frame of reference for that critique is pop culture - one of the few spheres that has allowed marginalised groups to obtain and display wealth. It is excusable in a teenager, less so if you are as old as Macklemore or Lily Allen.

^

sorta weird that piece doesn't mention lily allen - despite her relative irrelevance in america, that video got a lot of US critics weighing in... (more than UK critics if we're being real)

It does mention her.

Perhaps we’re in a high-decadent period for grotesqueries of white people laughing at black culture, from Lily Allen’s “Hard Out Here” video that parodies a flesh- and Champagne-obsessed rap world that doesn’t exist in the way Allen seems to think it does (see Feminista Jones’ recent analysis for a more in-depth take on this video) to Miley Cyrus’ exploitation of black female sexuality.

But I don't get any original thought from this piece. It's just a dutiful and somewhat timid rehash of recent internet debates. Why is this trope so popular right now? That's the interesting question.

oh yeah i missed it

xp

Critiquing aggressive materialism is fine but you are always going to run into trouble if your only frame of reference for that critique is pop culture - one of the few spheres that has allowed marginalised groups to obtain and display wealth. It is excusable in a teenager, less so if you are as old as Macklemore or Lily Allen.

On the money like microscopic traces of cocaine

Why is this trope so popular right now? That's the interesting question.

if there's one thing i really appreciate about this piece it's that it has the decency to use "how" in its headline, rather than committing my least-loved of editor errors and using a title like "why white artists are profiting from etc etc etc" despite the piece being entirely descriptive and making no decent stabs at finding reasons.

It's all speculative guesswork - "the perceived politics of the song," "arguably critigues." Give me quantifiable evidence-based fact to support your premise and I might be persuaded to give you a listen.

But given that the world is in general hurtling back into the Middle Ages you'd think that there are bigger and more deserving targets to be attacked than easy and ARGUABLY undeserving targets like Macklemore and Lorde. If that's the best the Left can do then they have truly had it. This is back to the bad old "The White Album is racist" eighties days.

sp. "arguably critiques."

That's Salon's deal right now. I refer you to last month's "The dangerous transphobia of Roald Dahl's Matilda."

The White Album was racist?

If that's the best the Left can do then they have truly had it.

lol 'the Left' probably able to concentrate on more than one thing at a time, iirc

The White Album was racist?

beatles most racist band in history iirc

Kind of think that wasn't the main reason for defeat of miners strike tho

Back to the days when the NME slagged off Loveless for not protesting against South African apartheid.

there is some difference there too, since the piece isn't talking about a perceived absence of political discourse but a quite intentional discourse that contains, inadvertently or not, a racist subtext

"Inadvertently or not" is a paradox when set against "intentional." You either have an intention to do something or you don't. Until I see evidence that these people intended to be racist then I'm not prepared to listen to the harangue. Although I suppose it would be quite fun to slag off Lorde or Lily Allen or whoever and argue the toss on our way to the workhouse.

Can we just ban any writing on pop culture for about 5 years

xp

to be clear - intentionally they are critiquing a perceived showy materialism. whether these critiques are aware of their racist subtext is up for question. i agree this isn't big P politics from a classical Marxist perspective. i think it raises interesting questions about representation and a privileged version of materialism that seems to be antagonistic to material wealth.

The writer doesn't distinguish between intent and reception, which is particularly important in the case of Royals. I don't think there's anything racist about the song - the lyrical references are too diffuse - but I'm sure there is among people who have embraced it for what it's not, ie a hatchet job on rappers.

i think we ought to be very clear about the difference between racist discourses and "is Artist X a racist". but i say this as a white man.

Back to the days when the NME slagged off Loveless for not protesting against South African apartheid.

Did this actually happen btw? (Hardly counts if it was just Steven Wells)

there was a debate from some sections of the indie world in the early 90s about whether shoegazing was a version of political quietism but the NME def didn't have a party line on it

see also Richey Manic "Slowdive worse than Hitler" I guess

that's the kind of thing, yep

The writer doesn't distinguish between intent and reception, which is particularly important in the case of Royals. I don't think there's anything racist about the song - the lyrical references are too diffuse - but I'm sure there is among people who have embraced it for what it's not, ie a hatchet job on rappers.

I think this is OTM

Can we just ban any writing on pop culture for about 5 years

― the Shearer of simulated snowsex etc. (Dwight Yorke), Friday, November 22, 2013 7:28 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if you mean "songwriting about pop culture" then yes.

I'm pretty averse to aggressive displays of wealth and hyper-consumerism in general, be it bankers paying themselves enormous bonuses or people spilling £100 bottles of alcohol all over the place. It's hard for me to reconcile my stance when I see it in pop culture, whether it comes from TOWIE-esque reality TV glitz or the kind of excess talked about upthread in hip-hop and pop videos.

Like it or not, this is a mass media representation of wealth that proliferates throughout the social consciousness, arguably endorsing lucre, consumer fetishism, the glamour of capitalist excess, a culture of aspiration and desire which, for most of us, is highly unachievable, unrealistic even. It ties into this trend of game-ification where everything's got to be about competing, one-upmanship, measuring your social worth according to wealth and other superficial merits.It just doesn't sit well with me, and I have trouble trying to be pragmatic about that.

It perplexes (but doesn't really surprise) me, how in an age of serious economic hardship that one of the most popular shows on UK TV revolves around the trials and tribulations of the mega-privileged; people who are born into wealth, who have nothing going wrong with their lives other than the boredom created through that wealth; whose lives are based around how they go about using their wealth and social status to create a very narrow, very specific sense of drama.

For most this is escapism and I completely understand the various reasons why someone would follow a show like Made In Chelsea or even why so many pop videos exude enormous levels of glam. But I find myself uncomfortable when I come across these displays in the media and pop culture. I think such representations were perhaps more acceptable as escapist fantasies before the economic downturn, the idea that you too could live in some wonderful world where money is no object, you can have whatever you want, when you want it etc... But as the poverty gap widens I find it increasingly grotesque; a kick in the face to those who are affected by the same greed and desperation that's boosted on TV and radio broadcasts around the world.

I don't think it's controversial to think this way, not to mention pointing out how manipulative the pop industry is of its artists and fans, of racial and sexual stereotypes, and how often it's done in much more subtle, manipulative ways than a Miley Cyrus video. Of course I'm all too aware of the counter-arguments or misreadings these opinions can bring. Why shouldn't people be allowed to dream big and want to make the most of themselves for a start? Also, if like Lorde and Allen you focus on just one aspect, (i.e. pop and hiphop music), you come under fire for critiquing racial tropes (and yeah, if you bang on about Cristal etc you're kind of asking for trouble). Rather than pushing against extreme excess on all counts, you're seen to be trying to level people down, telling them where their place is and shaming specific aspects of their culture.

But then you could also argue that a lot of these tropes have become so pervasive throughout pop that they're no longer tied to any specific race or culture other than big-P pop. It's easier for a pop song to criticise pop music than to criticise governmental economic policy or the housing market etc. Allen apologists will point out that the intention behind her video was to parody and critique the very videos that appear to be exploiting social, racial and sexual boundaries (Thicke, Cyrus etc) even if she did make a fucking massive pig's ear of it.

Did this actually happen btw? (Hardly counts if it was just Steven Wells)

― In times of osterity, these Eton-educated poshboys (Bananaman Begins), Friday, November 22, 2013 12:35 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

believe this refers to Dele Fadele's album review http://www.tohereknowswhen.org/press/nme-9nov91-2.html

so maybe a teeeeeeeeny distortion of what was actually said

"Inadvertently or not" is a paradox when set against "intentional." You either have an intention to do something or you don't. Until I see evidence that these people intended to be racist then I'm not prepared to listen to the harangue. Although I suppose it would be quite fun to slag off Lorde or Lily Allen or whoever and argue the toss on our way to the workhouse.

― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, November 22, 2013 7:25 AM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark

Intention doesn't matter, dummy

Intention doesn't matter, dummy

aren't we p much over believing this 80s-crit-theory canard

Discussion of racism in a comment/tweet/video/piece of writing/policy almost always gets diverted into discussion of whether the person who said/wrote/made it is "a racist" or not. That's not the point. Racism isn't made by "racists", in that sense. It's primarily a form of collective behaviour and the focus should be on whether the act is likely to strengthen or weaken that collective behaviour.

(as per Daniel Trilling on Twitter)

50s, actually xp

I'll cop that even I don't follow the hardline on the matter any more, I'll weigh intention along with everything else in the mix

But the opposite end of the spectrum, "intention trumps everything," is still dumbheaded and wrong

I think the biggest sign that I'm not going to survive in the new thinkpiece-as-content economy is that I didn't feel compelled to turn that tweet into an eight paragraph essay full of hyperlinks

I'll never be royals :(

I wonder why prioritising intention is "dumbheaded" and "wrong." I'd be interested to learn the detailed reasoning behind that.

Meanwhile, Lex appears to be agreeing with the premise that anybody can be called out as a racist even if they're not. I'm rather glad that people who think like that aren't in a position of power to make laws for the rest of us to live by.

In the interim, Britain has become a Third World country dependent on Red Cross parcels whose government is clearly not interested in anybody except the super-rich (and therefore, though by no means uniformly, ultra-materialistic). "Thrift Shop" and "Royals" are above everything songs which argue against materialism as an end in itself. To call the people who made them racists because you PERCEIVE they're having a crack at hip hop really is muddled thinking (if there is another reason, what is it?); it reminds me of the students' unions here who have been busy banning "Blurred Lines" while at the same time the colleges' owners have systematically banned their own students from engaging in any form of protest.

But attacking the real villains involves much harder work than having a go at easy and UNPROVEN targets, so things won't change until it's too late to change anything.

Dude you are out of your fucking mind if you don't think "But everybody's like Cristal, Maybach, diamonds on your timepiece" is about hip-hop

*isn't

No wait, *is

The line is about hip-hop.

I have to admit, when I saw "pop music's race problem" I pictured little stock cars zooming around with Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber's faces on them. Not painted on, but big fucking bobbleheads kinda this:

http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/2c/fe/4614_35.JPG

The big "problem" was rollovers, since they're so top-heavy, obvs.

West was lampooned as an egomaniac on Jimmy Kimmel’s talk show, then when he defended himself as a legitimately influential artist in a Kimmel appearance, his quotes were framed as “ridiculous” or crazy.

this part seems a little dishonest to me

You'd also be out of your fucking mind if you didn't think the line "Bloodstains, Ball gowns, Trashing the hotel room" was about
Agent Orange, Taylor Swift, and Nikki Sixx, respectively.

"Look, when Lorde says 'everybody's like fried chicken, watermelon, grape soda' she's just taking about people who don't eat healthy food, it's not a race thing"

sure dude

daily mail comments

Sonnybabe, Port of Spain, 5 hours ago

Every body needs to calm down. I'm no fan of hers but seriously, racist, because she was costumed as a Geisha. It's not like she was wearing black face.There are even white women who become Geishas, yes, I have seen the documentary. I thought the performance was visually stunning, the vocals on the other hand not so much. But all in all, a decent performance.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2513107/Katy-Perry-accused-racism-dressing-geisha-AMAs.html#ixzz2lh9A5xDy

lol if she was in blackface DM comments would be like "IT'S NOT LIKE SHE KEEPS SLAVES, GOD! PC GONE MAD"

but and im just throwing this out there what if she does keep slaves

thanks for the links birdhouse/temple character

There are even white women who become Geishas, yes, I have seen the documentary

I like the assumption that there's doubts. YES I HAVE SEEN THE DOCUMENTARY KTHNX

"seen it on a documentary" is a standard reply by morons with stupid opinions in the UK when asked for proof of something.

"There are even Japanese women who have become geishas, yes, I have watched Memoirs of a Geisha.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_22EXDJCJp3s/ShQ4qwlM0qI/AAAAAAAABdM/H6r2lpXBB70/s400/gwen-stefani-harajuku-girls-400a062207.jpg

GoodallsGirl, Wolverhampton, 5 hours ago

Hold on, No one complained when Gwen Stefani did this or when she had 3 geisha girls follow her about. It seems that people try and be PC over everything and it borderlines on silliness :/ x

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2513107/Katy-Perry-accused-racism-dressing-geisha-AMAs.html#ixzz2lhCZyKpl
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

keesha99x, miami, United States, 5 hours ago

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. I remember Madonna as a geisha at the grammy's in 1999. No one accused her of racism.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2513107/Katy-Perry-accused-racism-dressing-geisha-AMAs.html#ixzz2lhCdVvri
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

i think that's enough daily mail comments

as I mentioned above, it gets played on hip-hop radio

― i wish i had a skateboard i could skate away on (Hurting 2), Monday, November 25, 2013 9:13 PM (39 minutes ago)

The most recent, loaded example of rap and R&B stations conceding to the music industry's whitewashing is their embrace of Lorde's "Royals." The New Zealand teen's massive hit has some of the electro-buzzing murk of Drake or the Weeknd and drifts at the same BPM as plenty of syrup-afflicted radio R&B, so it isn't an out-of-nowhere inclusion. And "Royals" was first introduced to urban radio thanks to a Weeknd remix, and then by way of a Rick Ross verse added to the song.

http://www.spin.com/#articles/lorde-royals-rap-radio-urban-macklemore-thrift-shop/

I was surprised to see that Hot 97 does indeed play Macklemore (and Bruno Mars!), however I'd hardly call this list "whitewashed":

1 V.S.O.P K.MICHELLE
2 HOLD ON WE'RE GOING HOME DRAKE
3 HOLY GRAIL JAY-Z F/JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE
4 STANDING ON THE SUN BEYONCE
5 BEWARE BIG SEAN F/LIL WAYNE & JHENE AIKO
6 GET LUCKY DAFT PUNK
7 ROYALS LORDE
8 POWER TRIP J COLE F/ MIGUEL
9 F*CKWITHMEYOUKNOWIGOTIT JAY-Z
10 TAKE BACK THE NIGHT JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE
11 TREASURE BRUNO MARS
12 THE MONSTER EMINEM F/RIHANNA
13 POUND CAKE DRAKE F/JAYZ
14 FINE CHINA CHRIS BROWN
15 LOVE MORE CHRIS BROWN F/NICKI MINAJ
16 CAN'T HOLD US MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS
17 OWN IT MACK WILDS
18 SWEET SERENADE PUSHA T F/CHRIS BROWN
19 STARTED FROM THE BOTTOM DRAKE
20 COLLARD GREENS SCHOOLBOY Q F/KENDRICK LAMAR
21 CROOKED SMILE J. COLE F/TLC
22 NO NEW FRIENDS DJ KHALED F/ DRAKE, RICK ROSS, & LIL WAYNE
23 SHE KNOWS J.COLE
24 TOM FORD JAY-Z
25 PRIMETIME JANELLE MONAE F/MIGUEL
26 BOUND 2 KANYE WEST
27 DIFFERENTOLOGY BUNJI GARLIN
28 FASHION KILLA A$AP ROCKY
29 PART II (ON THE RUN) JAY-Z F/BEYONCE
30 WHITE WALLS MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS

The "whitewashing" reference in the Spin article was not to suggest that r'n'b/rap stations now play 99% white artists; it is likely more a reference to the new way Billboard does its charts (mentioned in that other thread and above)

I mean aspiration to wealth is an old trope in hip-hop, but I think it's become a kind of grotesque caricature of itself.

― i wish i had a skateboard i could skate away on (Hurting 2

So you don't think its problematic to only have Lorde and Macklemore making this argument?

The "whitewashing" reference in the Spin article was not to suggest that r'n'b/rap stations now play 99% white artists; it is likely more a reference to the new way Billboard does its charts (mentioned in that other thread and above)

and how radio stations are arranging their playlists.

well as DJP pointed out above, there are plenty of black artists who make the same critique. But they get ignored by mass radio/tv. Which to me comes back to what audiences want out of white vs. black artists, which I find a lot more problematic than the song. I guess what I mean is that the song shouldn't inherently be problematic, although it is problematic in the context of the pop landscape.

huh?

people shouldnt make scoldy songs, nagl

"The most recent, loaded example of rap and R&B stations conceding to the music industry's whitewashing is their embrace of Lorde's "Royals.""

this is a dumb sentence tbf

WOO K MICHELLE AT NUMBER ONE CAN WE TALK ABOUT HOW AMAZING SHE IS

The "whitewashing" reference in the Spin article was not to suggest that r'n'b/rap stations now play 99% white artists; it is likely more a reference to the new way Billboard does its charts (mentioned in that other thread and above)

and how radio stations are arranging their playlists.

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 25, 2013 5:48 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbf there have been a fair amount of white artists on the R&B airplay-only charts this year -- big presence from Robin and Justin, minor presence from Lorde and Macklemore and Eminem. and in recent years there's been R&B play for Adele, Katy Perry, etc.

I was pretty mortified by the Katy Perry performance last night. She was wearing only socks on stage, which is fucking disgusting. Just terrible

So... James Franco & Seth Rogan's Kanye thing

Pop culture’s Apatow problem: How white artists profit from mocking everything

What are the hip hop records that would have been hits this year if the climate were more like 2003? I know Jay-Z and Drake went Top 10 and J Cole had two in the Top 30 but I'm interested in what's missing out.

"versace" and "uoeno" feel like the biggest and most ubiquitous rap hits of the year regardless of chart placing

also maybe "bugatti"?

i wouldn't mind talking about how great "vsop" is. her vocals just give me chills.

yeah there's so much defiant power in it - like, her style is so predicated on her pushing louder and louder, working herself into a frenzy - the way "sometimes" builds is astonishing. it's virtuosity not just as showing off but as pure aggression. "you want ratchet then i'mma be that"

I figured out one of the reasons why I love VSOP so much, well I think

I think it's cause the horns in the chorus hit these minor-key notes

Not 100% certain since I don't have golden ears

So her triumphant vocals are tempered by this latent buried melancholy

I know the above is gonna make lex mad because according to him sadness is not a valid emotion to feel

i think i've already posted about how the appeal of "vsop" is because of the brittleness underpinning what's ostensibly a celebration - melancholy is perhaps a bit reductive but there's a desperation that comes through in lyrical details too, half the lines are fleeting paranoia about being dumped and her friends telling her it's a messed-up relationship, and the hurriedness of the song sort of papers over all of that in a very conscious way

Yeah I agree with that

i'm REALLY surprised Hot 97 plays "Get Lucky" - p sure that never gets played on hip-hop stations in Atlanta. i guess rap is different here though.

Every time I've heard Get Lucky on Hot 97 there's always been a preface mentioning Pharrell

RE: VSOP…

think it's my favorite tune of this year. and if you watch one of many live performances around the komputah wurld, there is no doubt that her herculean performance and the lyrical details that Mr. Pretend and others mention have struck a chord: probably every woman at each gig sings along in the unmistakable manner of somebody who's been there.

"Versace" and "UOENO" weren't even top 10 on the urban airplay charts.

biggest rap radio hits that weren't top 10 on the Hot 100 were like... "Power Trip," "Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe," "Bad," "Honest," "Ain't Worried About Nothin'," "We Still In This Bitch," "Poetic Justice," "Feds Watching," "Tom Ford," "Type Of Way."

Thanks sd

do you know why "uoeno" did so well on streaming?? like that seemed to be the main thing buoying its place on the hot 100 (+ all the charts that now use the hot 100 formula)

i don't even know

lol

it's pretty offensive how lorde implies that hip hop is all about cristal, maybach and diamonds, when it's really more about vsop, bugattis and versace this year.

do you know why "uoeno" did so well on streaming?? like that seemed to be the main thing buoying its place on the hot 100 (+ all the charts that now use the hot 100 formula)

― dyl, Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:21 PM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dunno really -- there were a hundred freestyles over that beat, and given the way things work with any YouTubes with any audio of a song (even a clip of "Harlem Shake" level brevity) registering on Billboard's measurements, it's possible that all the different versions floating around getting small #s of views reached critical mass?

do you know why "uoeno" did so well on streaming?

Because 1000 thinkpieces condemning Rick Ross's verse just wound up making people want to hear the song?

i could be wrong but i'm pretty sure there were rumors of kanye and kendrick being on the "uoeno" remix before anyone even noticed that rick ross bragged about date rape

You could be right; I don't know. I like Ross a lot, and I still haven't heard that song.

"uoeno" emerged as a hit right around when the controversy happened so there is some connection there, but it seemed to have a real buzz regardless

yeah it definitely had commercial momentum that the controversy seemed to tail behind. i'm sure controversy/hate-listening has a chart impact now -- "Accidental Racist" charted from lots of people feeling the need to Spotify/YouTube this terrible album cut by an artist they'd otherwise never listen to.

i think "uoeno"s popularity was independent of the controversy - i heard about that at the time but it was only a few months later that i realised i was hearing the song everywhere (usually not the original), there were a million remixes of it etc