"Baby It's Cold Outside" -- Holiday Song? Rapey?

you know what would really settle this, is a gawker or buzzfeed 'article' about how creepy this song is

this song is a beating

I remember that time I took a Women's Studies 101 class and had no concept of the social mores of mid-century of America.

To His Coy Mistress: Rapey?

it is a standard that is sung by many people and as such can be played both ways

Whether it's a holiday song or not is incidental, but it is wicked rapey.

flirty, morelike.

What if I acknowledge that is probably is a bit rapey, but won't acknowledge "rapey" as being a word?

thought this was easily the highlight of snl the other night - http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/baby-its-cold-outside/n44614/

I love this song, hate the word "rapey."

^ otm

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7c/aa/e0/7caae0115523c6b3cfc4b9848c24e1f3.jpg

Snowman wants to get cozy
(building around the corner has this on their stoop.)

I love this song, hate the word "rapey."

― Beatrix Kiddo (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 01:22 (14 hours ago) Permalink

^ otm

― Mmm yes hello (crüt), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 01:34 (14 hours ago) Permalink

yes, please let this word die with 2013

I did vote for it as best Xmas song ever. Obviously morally speaking it is one rung below hitler.

Kinda curious as to what prompts the hatred of the word "rapey" but to ask why would probably bring down clusterfuck, right?

My 1st exposure to this song was the tom Jones cerys Matthews version and my instinctive reaction was UGH no means no tom Jones u fucking creep, but that's tom Jones

xp
(1) trivializing to actual rape
(2) implies that there's this middle-ground "rape-ish" category that's not rape but rape-like
(3) just generally smacks of awful blogspeak

I love that this was just a throwaway number for performing to houseguests for about five years, before Loesser thought to record it properly

OK, gotcha. Thanks for the reply, Hurting.

i roofied your driiiiink

Dean Martin version works

really guys, sometimes "Don't go" is not a fucking felony

ty

This song did inspire one of the great album titles - Baby, It's Cold Inside by The Fun Years

Xp well that's the prob with the word "rapey", like I wouldn't draw any equivalence w rape necessarily but persistently not taking no for an answer comes off as fuckin douchey (if its tom jones)

Michael Buble is the litmus test

Bauble is always douchey no

Syria, kinda genocidey

yeah it's true, dude could make jingle bells sound gross

Xp well that's the prob with the word "rapey", like I wouldn't draw any equivalence w rape necessarily but persistently not taking no for an answer comes off as fuckin douchey (if its tom jones)

― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 11:46 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Honestly I think whether the person "not taking no for an answer" is being "douchey" or "rapey" or "persistent" is a call for the person saying no to make, not you.

i.e. in each respective situation

It's one of those rare duets, maybe less rare in musicals than pop music, where the two singers are actually arguing or at least opposing each other.

Hurting these are fictional ppl I get to make the call

And maybe it comes down to how its played, I will lol forever at that movie where dude spends the entire running time wheedling to get doris day to put out, because doris day is awesome

'lol baby it's cold outside is rapey' is kinda the xmas carol version of 'lol my fave xmas movie is die hard'

1) It's not a "Holiday Song" by any stretch of the imagination. It's a winter song, and the only holiday in it is the slow cooption of anything and everything wintery by Winter Consumerfest.

2) "Rapey". Although I can understand the problems with this specific word, I do think that there is the need for a non-dismissive, non-cutesy, non-trivialising word for saying "things which are not (yet) rape in a legal or moral sense, but are still: similar to rape; contributing to rape culture; or disregarding consent and agency in a way which indicates rape is a distinct possibility."

With this song, written as words on a page, it is almost impossible to tell whether it is "rapey" or not. So much depends on the context (is this an artefact of 1950s morality, or a modern re-reading of something which was then innocent but is now not innocent, or an entirely modern setting which is completely suspect) and the delivery. I have certainly heard versions where it's almost entirely clear to the listener that both parties are engaging in mutually consensual flirtation. I've heard versions where I pretty much want to call the cops to report a rape in progress. Language has changed since the song was written ("Roofies in the drink" is an almost entirely modern construction) and social mores have changed to the point where I'm not even sure *I* can get into the mindset of the woman ("mouse"?) in the song.

However, the whole process of examining the song, the ambivalent lyrics, pouring over every ambiguous line with a microscope to determine if she really is "totally up for it and just being coy because women in the 1950s are not allowed to express sexual desire" or "being drugged or pressured into sex" due clues in their tone and body language - that *process* makes me feel very uncomfortable, and to me, feels "rapey" in the "sustaining or contributing to rape culture" sense. I am prepared to accept that there may be a totally innocent, flirty 1950s reading of the song, where "what's in this drink?" just means "is this vermouth or gin?" But sorting through the reactions of a woman who says "I said no" one moment and "what is this magic spell..." the next and trying to work out consent from those cues, as opposed to just asking "are you into it?" - that is exactly describing rape culture. So I'm voting "rapey".

yep this is my least favorite christmas controversy for like 6 years running now

intersting

This is the first Christmas anyone has even asked me the question.

I think the fact that the girl at the end cheerfully says "baby it's cold outside," (i.e. "ok, I'll stay,") makes it pretty obvious that the song is not "rapey," not to mention that most of her protests are like "what will the neighbors think" kind of stuff. Even having to read it this closely to make the point makes me die inside a little.

die hard is a fine christmas movie.

Taking an ILX question at face value, and answering it seriously, when everyone else is ~so over~ ever having to think about the issue ever again, what on earth was I thinking.

Just kidding! I missed you guys.

Actually, no, I think reading Godel Escher Bach is starting to look a hell of a lot more appealing right now, yes, I really am bored enough to try and catch up the chapter I missed yesterday.

All winter songs become holiday songs by association xxxxpost

hey i cant help it that i am apparently at the cutting edge of "people finding things to complain about" culture

generally agree with bb above. i don't know this song, don't have a problem with "rapey" unless men are using it (something "the lady doth protest too much" about it) and feel like it's good shorthand for gendered power dynamics because it actually has some leverage in territory that usually doesn't and gets attention, get annoyed when other men get annoyed at "rapey" and huff about "the legal definition of rape" rmde

you know what? dudes getting reactionary and butthurt about this stuff is sooo fucking lame. you all should man up and find something constructive to do with your time.

Oh noes, I am a Cis-Het dude being made to think about rape for the whole sixth time in my life, DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP. Why don't they ever shut up.

OTM, which I think means that I'd be within my rights to pronounce "La Croix" like "la croix" if I ever have a reason to talk about it.

It’s within your rights to use the source-language pronunciation of a loanword, but you may get funny looks in the borrowing-language community.

'O Canada' every morning in school = years of conditioning in how to say 'la croix'.

i've never heard this song once in my entire life

Anyway, I might take issue with the pronunciation of "La Croix" but I have been exposed to francophone pronunciations of "Pachelbel" and "Pinetrail" (by someone from France) over the past week and I'm not sure whether Americans have anything to worry about.

'Tupperware' is my personal favourite:

https://forvo.com/search/Tupperware/fr/

Incidentally (re: 'Pinetrail'), a 'pine' is a dick.

people who ask for a 'Bom-BAR-dee-ey' beer in the pub

This conversation is not a holiday conversation.

if I could snap my fingers and have everything associated with this song erased from the planet I would

sorry John Legend

Sorry straight America, it's not a very charming song.

from here on out, everytime somebody says they've never heard the song I am posting the Ray Charles/Betty Carter YouTube. Their version is a good song! It is absolutely problematic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Rbkcxiibw

The Times recommends this version with Ms Piggy ad Nureyev which the description calls "Miss Piggy Geting(sic) Lucky in the Steam Room"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ1SBAO1HU

also via the NYT story, here's a crazy detail about the song's role in the "inspiration of Al Qaeda":
https://qz.com/1491525/baby-its-cold-outside-and-the-rise-of-islamic-fundamentalism

“The dance hall convulsed to the tunes on the gramophone and was full of bounding feet and seductive legs,” Qutb wrote later. “Arms circled waists, lips met lips, chests met chests, and the atmosphere was full of passion.”

Wow @ "Tupperware"

That Ray Charles/Betty Carter version is actually a good example of the song being performed as a "playful" exchange between two equals, and not at all like she is being coerced or otherwise stuck on the weaker side of a power dynamic.

Love the German: Too-pah-Vaw-ray

that Ray Charles/Betty Carter rendition is wonderful, its a shame to discover that this song did 9/11

https://i.imgur.com/pi8ssLF.jpg

Holiday Song? Killy?

there should be more psychotic Christmas songs

city sidewalks, bloody sidewalks

this is Satan's big day

xxxp That meme would also work well with an iconic Duvall/Nicholson still from The Shining.

there should be more psychotic Christmas songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz5kHC0g9HQ

Simply... having... a murderous Christmastime

Last Christmas
I cut out your heart

Jingle Hell

All I want for Christmas is your two front teeth

I fell for you last Christmas
When I saw you from afar
I'd like to cut your boobs off
And keep them in a jar.

https://images.genius.com/3b3335e86b69365e407ffae2370c161d.600x600x1.jpg

silent night, deadly night has nothing on that album cover

I saw Mommy disemboweling Santa Claus...

she didn't hear me creep down the stairs to take a peek
and now I'm really fucked up and I can't get back to sleep

I fixed #BabyItsColdOutside.
In this version she ignores his entreaties to stay and heads on out. Turns out there WERE no cabs to be had out there, it WAS up to her knees out there, and her frozen body is found the next day.

Everybody happy now?

— Just Bill (@WilliamAder) November 4, 2019

Ted Bundy possibly

xp No offense, I'm happy now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVz6TCT5Bjs

It's back, sped up and inverted. Feliz Navidad!

^That's from 2012... but I bet we will get a "clever" COVID-themed rewrite from someone this year.

I really can't stay
Please stay six feet away

^That's from 2012... but I bet we will get a "clever" COVID-themed rewrite from someone this year.

My money is on that family that did the pajama rap. I know the husband did his "hilarious" take a few years ago, but surely this is low hanging fruit for them.

D'oh! Saw news of candy cane vinyl with a link to this song, so thought it was a new release. Haven't been following them for years (obv).

Baby it's Cov'd Outside

fucker writes itself

Say what's in this drink?

Hydroxychloroquine

Is it me, or does this thread revive seem to come earlier every year?

Please pull down your mask (Why would you even ask?)
There’s no need to hide (It’s not about pride)
I’ll stay by your side (“...If I got pneumonia and died”?)

I know I won’t see you later
When I’m hooked up to a ventilator
(Both:) So, baby, let’s stay inside

stay two metres awaaay

or six feet (USA)

its not officially the holiday season until my facebook feed is filled with people who ride for Michael Jackson and TI busting out the handclap emojis to post about how THIS-SONG-IS-NOT-OK!

balls has the most otm post itt

eh, silly that this has become such a thing to have such an ardent take on.

Relitigate