YOU SAD BASTARD! Carter Reconsidered Tom Ewing, September 2002

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I was going to write out a lengthy response to this article but I decided to sum up this entire article with the words used as the title

YOU SAD BASTARD!

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 08:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey Momus is right, insults don't affect you once you've reclaimed them!

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 09:55 (twenty-three years ago)

what a pointless and complete waste of time this article was, it could have been written in one sentence, "I used to like Carter, and even though I now think they are rubbish, I still listen to them whilst I'm pissed up and remenissing"
why are you guilty? Is it because you are a NME wannbee?
do you think the fans of Chas N'Dave are suffering such torment?
next time you have a bout of verbal diarrhoea give me a call and I'll come round and knock you unconcious,
and before you have a go, yes I admit I can't spell, will you just admit you write bollocks?

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:22 (twenty-three years ago)

you should apologize for yr grammar as well cos that's not one sentence

― bob zemko (bob), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:27 (twenty-three years ago)

hmmmn

― Ess Kay (esskay), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:31 (twenty-three years ago)

ooooooo you're petty too !

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:32 (twenty-three years ago)

And what's your point? That writing about music is self-indulgent? Yeah, of course it is. So what? Why do you get so upset that somebody else is writing or thinking about a band you like?

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Sod Momus insults don't affect you when you have your head up your arse
Nice one Falling-On-A-Bruise!!
Who cares about grammar the point is the same
and if the only replies you can put to either posts is more bollocks
maybe you aren't willing to stand behind your article?

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Why are you pretending to be two different people?

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:35 (twenty-three years ago)

im commenting on the crapness of your writing , not the subject

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Falling-On-A-Bruise posts on other message boards I go to
and I offered I link

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah I stand by the article. I thought it was OK - not the best thing I've ever written, not the worst. I think the stuff about the music is all pretty accurate. Most of the people who read the site would probably dismiss Carter without a thought so I was trying to explain why they might be worth listening to. And I was trying to explore how I've ended up with mixed feelings about the stuff I listened to when I was 17. If you think that's pretentious fair enough.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:43 (twenty-three years ago)

have you never heard of computer net works , i am on one computer , neveready is upstairs on , suprise suprise, another computer

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:44 (twenty-three years ago)

The point of being pissed about what you are writing is because it's people like you who nearly distroyed Carter in the first place
I will only accept your article if you can honestly say you have heard EVERY Carter Album

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:45 (twenty-three years ago)

pretentious moi ?

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes of course you are, silly me.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

How is it people like me who nearly destroyed Carter? By listening to their records then stopping?

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:48 (twenty-three years ago)

mixed feelings?, just think how i feel, i wanted to marry Adam ant !

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:50 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/2000_10_08_hated.html#1069650

You'll like this article more!

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I take it you've never heard of Internet Connection Sharing?
people like you writing shite like this and all the people who read it following your opinions like little sheep
Have you heard EVERY Carter Album?

I first heard Carter in 92 when 1992 THE LOVE ALBUM came out and binned the tape a few months later
In late 97 I bought the album again and it felt like I'd just heard it for the first time I then went out and bought every Carter Album made
there is something in Carter for everyone
but most people won't listen to anything that isn't trendy
or if they haven't been told to listen to it by people like the writers of NME

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:58 (twenty-three years ago)

''people like you writing shite like this and all the people who read it following your opinions like little sheep''

ppl can think for themselves you know.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"ppl can think for themselves you know."
I think the pop chart will justify my point

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:08 (twenty-three years ago)

But will it justify your love?

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:09 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.geocities.com/self_hypnosis

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:11 (twenty-three years ago)

I am not accepting your criticism of my writing until you read EVERY article I have written!

"Internet Connection Sharing" - can one of ILX's technical gurus explain this one to me?

As far as I can tell your story is exactly the same as mine (didnt like them then did) except you like every single thing they did and I like some of it. All this NME-reading-sheep stuff is a bit rich too - how do you think 95% of Carter's fans back then first heard about them?

"i think the pop chart will justify my point" - but Carter were IN THE POP CHART!

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:12 (twenty-three years ago)

internet connection sharing...
cable comes in house,
connects to computer A in bedroom
another cable connects to computer downstairs,
yee hah we're sharing an internet connection

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:17 (twenty-three years ago)

nevaready aint no real fan. i was into them way before all the trendy wankers got into them in '92 and then again in'97. I wrote hatemail into the nme when people still cared about them ( and carter).

― ever heard of internet connection sharing (big E.D), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think I'd want to read every article of yours even though it is unfair if I say your writing is shite
Slating Carter
Slating Jamie Wednesday
Slating The Rolling Stones

Do you Slate every band and solo artist?

"Internet Connection Sharing" = 2 Computers on one broadband connection both are entirly seperate except they share the same ip address

NME started slating Carter and people stopped listening plus pissed up people reminissing ruined live Carter gigs as all they could do was to shout "You fat bastard" and demand every song to be Sheriff Fatman or Shoppers' Paradise

Bands only get famous and stay famous as long as the press say they are any good when the press turns thats when the bands fall

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:20 (twenty-three years ago)

could you tell me how many records you've made tom?
or are you a bitter failed musician ?

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:24 (twenty-three years ago)

"nevaready aint no real fan"
Really???
where does my user name come from then?
and why do I have U*S*M tattooed on my wrist and a song title tattooed down my forearm?
and more to the point why have I spent hundreds of pounds collecting Carter stuff off the internet if I "aint no real fan"?

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I am imagining these two people sitting at a secret location on different floors of some kind of giant factory house, listening to Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine, and refusing to blow their noses.

Bands only get famous and stay famous as long as the press say they are any good when the press turns thats when the bands fall

This is diamond stuff.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:25 (twenty-three years ago)

The "I Hate Music" articles aren't by me - that level of Jamie Wednesday knowledge is beyond me, sorry! Tanya Headon does indeed slate every band and solo artist.

The thing is I don't think my article was slating Carter. It was saying that some of the stuff they did was good and some of it was rubbish. I wrote it more as a DEFENCE of Carter than anything else. OK "with friends like these who needs enemies" but my intention was just to be honest about how I felt about the band hearing them now. FWIW I stopped listening before NME started slagging them off - the 1992 stuff did nothing for me at the time.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:27 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.disneyana-exchange.com/Photobin/WAW-tweedledee&dum.jpg

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:28 (twenty-three years ago)

or are you a bitter failed musician?

Yes you've rumbled me. I'm the bloke from I Ludicrous.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:29 (twenty-three years ago)

oi i blow my nose regularly thank you very much, i keep all my snot in a jar

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:29 (twenty-three years ago)

The one where you keep your brain as well?

I think the new FT tagline should be:
Freaky Trigger: the best music site written by people who like Sheriff Fatman.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:36 (twenty-three years ago)

nice put down nicole NOT !

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:38 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.nevaready.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/smilies/skelgivingfin.gif
I liked the tweedledum and tweedledee pic very amusing in a sort of pointless way

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:39 (twenty-three years ago)

GO TO BED

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:41 (twenty-three years ago)

"I think the new FT tagline should be:
Freaky Trigger: the best music site written by people who take things at face value and listen to the rambling opinions of a single person."

― Nevaready, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:42 (twenty-three years ago)

nice put down nicole NOT !

That sounds so 1992...which makes sense, since you're stuck on a silly band who no-one has cared about since then.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:45 (twenty-three years ago)

oh dear , i sound so 1992 , excuse me while i go and cry, you are so cruel nicole, why are you being so nasty to me , im feeling all hurt and upset now, you evil evil person

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Can't all Carter USM fans past and present put down all their grudges and go back to walking dogs on pieces of string and drinking cider?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 12:02 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Freaky Trigger should just re-name itself Sheriff Fatman and have done with it. It would be a good excuse for a party.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 12:05 (twenty-three years ago)

right thats it im bored now ,i'm off to walk the dog on a string and get some cider
i hope you all die horribly
if i find a spare sense of humor i will send it to you all
just remember , you can't open your eyes with your head up your arse
nicole, good luck getting through puberty!
bye tom , i'd like to say its been a pleasure but...lol ;)( oh no smileys, how 80's)

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 12:12 (twenty-three years ago)

if i find a spare sense of humor i will send it to you all

Keep it for yourself -- charity begins at home.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 12:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Blimey - at least Killing Joke had more fans than this. And they were funnier!

**pissed up people reminissing ruined live Carter gigs as all they could do was to shout "You fat bastard" and demand every song to be Sheriff Fatman or Shoppers' Paradise**

Sadly this often results when pissed up people *reminiss*.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 13:50 (twenty-three years ago)

WHOOOO WHOOOO WHOOOO!!!

PEDANTIC ILM-ER ALERT!!!

PLEASE SLOWLY STEP AWAY FROM THE FUN!!!

― Sans Fah, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 14:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I love threads like this! It's a bit disappointing there were only the "two" of them, though. What do we have to do to get more stupid random googlers coming here?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)

1 carter album is 1 too many

― g (graysonlane), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 19:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom E: I would like to read your article. I liked Carter OK myself. I daresay what you had to say was sensible.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 20:08 (twenty-three years ago)

It's on Freaky Trigger Pinefox. Don't know if it's still on the front page or not but it was very recent so it probably is.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 20:09 (twenty-three years ago)

and why do I have U*S*M tattooed on my wrist and a song title tattooed down my forearm?

Because you're a dork?

― hstencil, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 20:14 (twenty-three years ago)

god i mean i like aaron carter as much as the next guy, but...

― bob zemko (bob), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 20:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't even like Ron Carter, Joe Carter, or Jimmy Carter (nice Nobel, nearly 30 years late, btw) to have anything by any of them tattoed on me, much less some band that was maybe relevant a decade ago. Yeesh.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:01 (twenty-three years ago)

That's because you think you're an Unstoppable Sex Machine, hstencil.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 23:29 (twenty-three years ago)

easy there jackhole... h is my NYC #1 or #2 port o' call.

― gygax!, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 23:44 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry -- I didn't mean to get between you and your bowl of sugar.

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 00:15 (twenty-three years ago)

a good move on your part... hussy.

― gygax!, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 00:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Graham should set up thread alerts wherein you are instantly e-mailed when silly threads like this erupt.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 00:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Damn, I always miss these threads when they're happening. Googling idiots rule!

I first heard Carter in 92 when 1992 THE LOVE ALBUM came out and binned the tape a few months later

That's the first serious thing anyone's said today.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 01:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Does anyone have that link to info on Aspergers Syndrome for Falling-On-A-Bruise?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 01:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I was kind of hoping this thread would last longer
Some of the replies were funny whilst some were pointless and stupid
Maybe I should have said something more controversial?

Like clockwork toys wind them up and watch them go
But you lot just aren’t any fun
You barely have any real points and all you can do is take the piss because of a few spelling mistakes
How sad is that?
Do you keep a dictionary and a thesaurus up your arse along with your head?

And you lot can’t even understand that Internet Connection Sharing does mean that 2 people can post messages on a message board from different computers
Now that must prove that you all are a set of sad bastards

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:43 (twenty-three years ago)

You haven't made a single point of argument.

I don't give a fuck about Internet Connection Sharing.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:49 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe you could have made more of a point if you stopped wanking for long enough to make any sort of real contribution

http://www.nevaready.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/smilies/30.gif

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 06:10 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.spinach-records.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=202

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 06:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Called ugly by Carter fans - now I truly have seen it all.

― Tanya Headon (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 07:47 (twenty-three years ago)

the term used was "an ugly lady with a face like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle"

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 08:36 (twenty-three years ago)

just before anyone starts on me that message was not posted by my I have only quoted it on this board

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 08:38 (twenty-three years ago)

*my = me
I know how you lot are about spelling mistakes

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 08:41 (twenty-three years ago)

to martin skidpants,
you smell,
love
one of the stupid random googlers
x

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 10:51 (twenty-three years ago)

So it's come to this, the number of band members is matched by the amount of fans.

Hold on, has anyone actually seen Carter, Falling-On-A-Bruise and Nevaready in the same room?

Do you see what I did there?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry, I meant to say I smell of wee.

― Falling-On-A-Bruise (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Chewshabadoo are you pretending to be Falling-On-A-Bruise or is that Internet Connection Sharing in action?? I get terribly confused with this new technology.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Chewshabadoo has run out of hilarious comments so has to pretend to be me ,

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 13:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom: Sorry, but you don't register at your peril, and I was resorting to their level. Backfired though, damn!

Falling-On-A-Bruise: At least I had some to start with.

Everyone else: Ignore me, as I've said before I have a morbid curiosity with this type of thread. It's something halfway between watching a car crash, and reading 'Disgusted of Hemel Hempstead' letters.

I'll try and stop my trollery, but HE STARTED IT!

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 16:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I wish it was as exciting as "something halfway between watching a car crash, and reading 'Disgusted of Hemel Hempstead' letters."
but unfortunately it isn't

Tanya didn't come back with any sort of defence did she
I wonder why?

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:40 (twenty-three years ago)

"and I was resorting to their level."
was the trip out of the gutter a nice one?

― Nevaready, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that being called ugly required a "defence". But I suppose in the world of the Carter fan that would indeed constitute an "argument" so here we go.

No actually I'm well gorgeous.

― Tanya Headon (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 20:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I hope "these people" stay around. Though obviously there'll be some more along before long anyway, saying most of the same things in mostly the same way about some other band. We do all need to be alerted about threads like this, somehow - I wouldn't normally read a Carter thread, but Tom referred to it elsewhere so I looked in. How this is to be achieved I'm not sure - any ideas, Graham? I'd suggest bright colours and dancing text, but we've done that.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 20:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sure Les Carter would be impressed to see his former band defended in such an pathetic and inarticulate way. Should I forward him the link to this thread?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 21:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Heh -- I know somebody close to the band as well, I was thinking of passing it along too. But really, why bother? Send him the link to the original article instead.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 21:59 (twenty-three years ago)

To be fair:

- I'm not sure they'd be that keen on the original article either.
- One of them actually replied on the thread neva-loved-elvis linked to.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Where is the thread where Tom referred you to this one?

electric sound of jim - Les Carter had read that article before I'd seen it and had already posted his comments on his site
I would have thought that he wouldn't give a shit how his fans defended his old band
but that is best left for him himself to comment on

you all seem to be taking this thing seriously
with your sad fixations on little points because you don’t really have anything to say
you just need to spout some reply about bad spelling and other wank points
whilst thinking you are superior because you know where to put a full stop or know how to spell reminisce
Well thank fuck there are people in the world like you
I need a laugh and your my joke
I have already said once that this thread is pointless
it's just something to do to pass half an hour

at the end of the day I dont give a shit about your opinions
although I do accept yours differ from mine and that you are entitled to them
I started this thread to cause a stir through boredom
and at 82 total replies it may have worked
you seemed like the kind of people who would demand that your right

I do kinda hope this thread lives a bit longer though

oh and the "neva-loved-elvis" bit was fantastic
it was so brilliant I might even change my user name to it next time

― Nevaready, Thursday, 17 October 2002 05:44 (twenty-three years ago)

There was a thread on what was making us happy. I said I'd had a shitty day but arguing with the Carter people had been a laugh.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 17 October 2002 07:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe thats something we could agree on
the fact it was (kind of) funny and somewhere to vent after having a shit day

― Nevaready, Thursday, 17 October 2002 08:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Tanya is a buff hotty.

― sean f, Thursday, 17 October 2002 16:41 (twenty-three years ago)

a buff hotty?
sounds like a scottish pie full of gristle

― Falling-On-A-Bruise, Thursday, 17 October 2002 19:08 (twenty-three years ago)

haha i'm so glad to be back

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 17 October 2002 22:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Good to see you Mark but what do you think of VICE MAGAZINE?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:07 (twenty-three years ago)

One last bump for old times sake

Fruitbat was once asked in a interview

Who are Carter fans?

He replied

"Carter fans are brave, fierce, stubborn people who refuse to be dictated to by fashion or common sense."

even I would agree with that

No offence was intended by any of my posts and I doubt anyone cared enough to be offended

See ya'

― Nevaready, Saturday, 19 October 2002 12:18 (twenty-three years ago)

jesus, Carter fans are weird. Tom in the article you say that Chumbawamba came along and started doing a similar thing with the drum machines and sampling, they were doing that in the mid-80's iirc, it may not have been great but they were doing it, and better too.

Carter are responsible for the worst haircut ever.

― chris (chris), Saturday, 19 October 2002 19:30 (twenty-three years ago)

ha ha. that was quite funny.

― Alan (Alan), Monday, 21 October 2002 12:40 (twenty-three years ago)

ah, so THAT'S why a carter response thread attracted 92 posts.

― michael wells (michael w.), Monday, 21 October 2002 13:33 (twenty-three years ago)

only 91 till you stuck your oar in

― Falling-On-A-Bruise (Falling-On-A-Bruise), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 09:54 (twenty-three years ago)

count 'em again, laughing boy.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 13:49 (twenty-three years ago)

The best thread ever bar none. And I missed it. Fock. Tom = dunno what you wrote but you should have resorted to vitriolic insults after the second post from those good lads. And as for them - right on - Carter are the bestest band in the whole wide world ever.

*waits*

Hey-ho - no-one's gonna bite that. Shame. I reckon those two utter lads were having a bubble. Tom - Did I get this right - are you an NME hack? Did you really slate the Stones in print? Not when they were in their pomp you fucker! But the fact that it was "people like you who nearly distroyed Carter in the first place" [classic] is thine redemption.

― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 15:04 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

I am from Spain and I had the chance to meet Fruity and Jimbob during the time I was living in London. I met them when they were not famous anymore, both of them playing with their seperate bands. I prefer JSSW hundreds of times more than Fruity's Abdoujaparov... But maybe because I prefer "techno-pop" sounds than punk sounds.
I´m sure I must be the all time fan number one of Carter USM, I still listen to them and I love them in the same way as in the beginning.
I think it´s a shame that they split up, but I also think their first CDs were the best and then they started to go down, especially with "I blame the G...".
Besides Carter usm music I also want to write down that for me meeting Jimbob has been one of the greatest experiences in my life, whereas meeting Fruitbat was disappointing because I think he didn't consider me the way I deserved and he just ignored me. He shouldn't ignore anyone who has been a NUMBER ONE FAN, especially since I am not from England but Spanish.
Anyway, CARTER USM will rule forever in my life, I´ll never change my feeling about his music. I just love it and I´ll keep loving them.

dani

― dani corbi, Saturday, 30 November 2002 16:36 (twenty-three years ago)

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