I would like to thank J. Blount and Tracer Hand

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for making my Streets review (http://us.f119.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?YY=25608) so much better than it would have been otherwise.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:00 (twenty-three years ago)

aaaaahhhh!!!! http://citypages.com/databank/23/1141/article10800.asp, not the above! sorry!

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:01 (twenty-three years ago)

[whew! just tried the first link and it doesn't work unless you're me, which you're not! spam craziness averted! yay!]

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:03 (twenty-three years ago)

minus a million points for outing ilxor to the wider public, but otherwise a most timely post - i'm seeing The Streets tonite! Excitement!

Charlie (Charlie), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:10 (twenty-three years ago)

exposing ilx to someone reading about the streets could only HELP it now.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:15 (twenty-three years ago)

"Michaelangelo Matos, outing ilxor to a wider audience since early 2002"

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:19 (twenty-three years ago)

nice one, Michelangelo!! i'm flattered to be in such a good piece!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 06:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah,

But why Brixton? He is from Brum, right? You say so yourself - is Brixton just the definitive home of the 'geezer'?

Michael Dieter, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 07:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Good review MM!

Skinner was originally from Birmingham but now lives in Brixton (actually this is the only raised-eyebrow point in the review: Skinner's isn't a "thick" Brummie accent, in fact he sounds like he's doing his best to cover it up - but that's a quibble). Also it is the definitive home of the genre cf the 1Xtra advert!

And yes the Duck is a pub!

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 07:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I didn't write the headline

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 08:19 (twenty-three years ago)

also, don't tell anyone, but (pssst): I'm a dumb American who doesn't know these things.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 08:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Heh I think it's sweet anyway - finally some kind of payback for years of secretly not understanding hip-hop slang. (see also "subway" confusion on Nas thread!).

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 09:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't quite understand what Guy Ritchie is doing in this article... but then I don't quite understand how Ritchie is seen in the US. I have the vague idea that 'Snatch' is seen as some kind of arthouse film over there, rather than shoddy Kraysploitation. Anyway the distinction between Skinner and Ritchie is between aspirational imaginary geezerdom (it occurred to me in conversation with the PF recently that people we know who aspire to be London geezers are almost always from rural/provincial upbringings) and mockney slumming: two very differently loaded forms of cultural tourism.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 09:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Good stuff MM.


Is it not "the dock"? I always thought that's what it was but I stand corrected I guess.

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 09:38 (twenty-three years ago)

nice review.

i think tom's probably right about the accent thing, although i grew up in birmingham and now live in london and my accent is much closer to mike skinner than ozzy osbourne (occasionally i think this is a shame. but not often).

if it's the duck in loughborough junction (which certainly looked like a venue for all manner of dodginess) it seemed to have changed into a style bar when i was round there a couple of weeks ago.

in years to come there'll be a blue plaque.

adam b (adam b), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 11:48 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm wondering how far an english writer woud get saying "cor blimey aren't american ppl DIFFERENT? don't those rappers talk FUNNY?"

bob zemko (bob), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah but Matos isn't doing that much.

Also it is legitimate if you're reviewing a UK hip-hop album for a US market which probably won't have heard English-accent rapping before let alone the kind of slang-heavy lingo Skinner uses. Of course the first reaction is going to be wow-thats-weird and an honest reviewer shd reflect that.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:28 (twenty-three years ago)

good one, Matos!

maybe now record stores in Minneapolis will actually stock it (other than import vinyl, yikes). Been looking for it since it turned up here, no luck.

g.cannon (gcannon), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:33 (twenty-three years ago)

well yeah but i don't think this article is really doing that in the way you imply.

as someone with a *vaguely* similar background to mike skinner his rapping still sounds funny and different and odd and jarring to my ears. that's part of what's good about it. if you've never before been exposed to the strata of english life he plays around with (and if you live in minniapolis why the hell should you have been?) then it must sound absolutely mental.

also, one of the things i like about american hip hop is that i *do* laugh at the nutty things they talk about and the funny ways they say them.

adam b (adam b), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Haha Tom got in before me but I'm going to post this anyway.

I'm not sure how far MM was saying that though, Bob. And non-American rappers often *do* sound odd / jarring if they rap in (something close to) their own accents.

To me, Michelangelo's review points up some of what sticks out about the LP to me: the weird flow, the strangeness of the vocabulary in a rap context, the clarity of the character(s) on the record (and I'm anything but anti UK rap).

Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 12:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Jerry: they have Guy Ritchie/Stan Brakhage film fests over here all the time!

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 15:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm no fan of Snatch (you can read why at http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0103/film-matos.shtml), and I don't myself think of him as any kind of art-house auteur. At any rate, I think the context infers that he's seen in the U.S. as someone whose heavy use of slang doesn't get in the way of his entertainment value.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

also, it's not out in the U.S. till the 22nd

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

One thing English ILxors should realize is just how completely beneath the radar this record is in America, hence Matos' review which assumes (correctly) the reader doesn't have a clue who or what The Streets are (I prefer, and doubt I'll read anything better about the Streets by an American that's better than his writeup on "Weak Become Heroes"). It's gotten reviews but generally back of the book type stuff - if you weren't looking for press about the Streets you wouldn't find it. The people I've played Original Pirate Material for have reacted to it like it's a novelty record, the same way they would react if I played them a Japanese rap record or a record by a rapping French toddler, and this isn't just the general reaction to non-American rap, African rap comps don't get the same reaction for example, and I don't think a French, non-toddler rap record would today either (ten years ago however...). I knew this record was too English to top charts over here, but I am surprised it hasn't got much more press (ILx has warped my perspective perhaps). Also, playing the misunderstanding the lyrics / 'two countries divided by a common language' game is fun - I somehow prefer "Geezers Need Excitement" with the American definition of geezer. My guess is Original Pirate Material lands somewhere in the twenties (maybe thirties, who knows) on the Pazz & Jopp, and then more critics decide to listen to it and maybe throw it on their 2003 list (vis a vis "A Stroke of Genie-us" charting higher on this year's Pazz & Jopp than last year's).

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:07 (twenty-three years ago)

MM: Dude, Where's My Car is such a better film than anything Guy Richie has done,

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:11 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe now record stores in Minneapolis will actually stock it (other than import vinyl, yikes). Been looking for it since it turned up here, no luck.

You should order it from Canada; It's been available for months, it's only $11 US.

Vic Funk, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:14 (twenty-three years ago)

one reason, J., that "Stroke of Genius" might (possibly) chart higher this year is simply because more people have heard it: The Best Bootlegs in the World Ever has helped immeasurably in that regard. (though frankly I'd wager "Smells Like Booty" will be even more popular.) also, Spin ran its review (an 8/10) last in the section, but Rolling Stone's is a big featured review and the Village Voice's was the lead review two weeks ago, and there will obviously be more to come (including a front-of-book feature I wrote for Time Out New York)--the album isn't even out in America yet! (that'll be Tuesday, as I mentioned earlier.) plus, I think it'll finish a LOT higher than mid-20s, though I won't go on record as saying where.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Rolling Stone's taking its cues from Q seems to be good thing, considering. Still I wonder...the Avalanches were the last import act of this import, and even with heavy major label push (I don't work in a record store anymore - hallelujah - but I can't imagine Vice magazine has the money to promote this thing that the Avalanches got, ie. a lot; I really doubt indie record stores are being inundated with posters and phone calls from label reps, and I don't expect to see Wal-Mart stocking this) and a sound that wasn't nearly as alien (ie. they sampled Madonna) it still didn't finish nearly as high as I thought it would (betcha it get's a lot of votes for this year though, nevermind the calendar). No one I know in radio - commercial or college - is in the least bit familiar or curious about the Streets; I couldn't say the same about the Avalanches a year ago, or obviously the Strokes, who are American in citizenship and sound (hence they got airplay, sold records) but used the classic 'loads of British press/hype' manuever to get their gallons of Yank ink. Considering how relatively unknown garage culture remains to the rock press / American public, and the skepticism (fair or not) that many American rock critics have of any English import, I'd be shocked if it ranks any higher than twenty on the Pazz & Jopp, and impressed if it makes top five on the CMJ chart (not a difficult task). In fact, I'll go one better and bet you (Matos) a mix-CDR that Original Pirate Material charts no higher than twenty six on the Pazz & Jopp albums chart (singles is another thing altogether).

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)

That's a very good review (esp. the comment about Weak Become Heroes pianist sounding like he's nodding off = O. T. M.) and has whetted my appetite for the FT Streets' special; I really want British perspectives on Skinner. I can appreciate these 'he's an alien' reviews but I'm really interested in the Brit angle employed (ie I might be getting a bit bored of this obviousism).

david h (david h), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:20 (twenty-three years ago)

But the Streets are distributed by Atlantic, a major label! You're goddamned right it'll get in stores! Also, the Avalanches didn't come out in America till November of last year, which I think burdened its chances some: I didn't realize quite how good it was till January, after I'd already given it 10 points; if I were to redo that ballot I'd give it at least 20, and I know at least one other critic who feels the same way. Still, it did finish 11th, higher than the much-more-touted Basement Jaxx and Daft Punk albums (my no. 1 and 3 last year; were I to re-vote they'd be no. 2 and 5) did, and considering how many Midwest-daily-writers' shoo-ins there were clotting up that top ten (e.g. good-not-great records from Lucinda Williams and Rufus Wainwright, plus Bjork getting the majority of set-aside and/or token-weirdo votes), that's a pretty significant amount. (And you're damn right Since I Left You will get more votes this year--Sire's been working that thing like a ploughhorse, and good for them.)

That said, it's discouraging to hear that "No one [you] know in radio - commercial or college - is in the least bit familiar or curious about the Streets," and it makes me worry that some of the more reactionary critics (i.e. the Lucinda Williams set-aside voters) will follow suit, e.g. "oh it's just a novelty record big deal." People in the States aren't hearing it as a garage record, which they wouldn't care about anyway--they're hearing it as a rap record, which means it's in trouble since the rapping sounds all wrong to American and/or b-boy ears. Nevertheless, its cult is rabid enough here, plus this year has been so weak albumswise, that I'm pretty sure it'll do better than 20. Of course, I also thought Avalanches/Jaxx/Daft Punk would place top ten and they ran 11-13-25, so what do I know?

Mix CD-R, eh? You're on.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:36 (twenty-three years ago)

add to first graf: I didn't realize how good the Avalanches were till January 2002, and I'd had an import copy since March 2001.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Betting on Pazz + Jop placement must be something like the 4th or 5th circle of rock crit hell ;)

Ben Williams, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:46 (twenty-three years ago)

6th or 7th, actually, but you didn't hear that from me ;-)

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Ft Streets special has been kind of postponed indefinitely :(

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 20:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I was thinking recently when I was listening to OPM that there's an odd sort of parallel between the Streets and Lifter Puller, especially in terms of their vocal "rap" cadence and their anthems of bar-hopping, violence, ennui and club culture. It may not seem particularly strong or viable a matchup to anyone but me, but I sort of like the idea of Mike Skinner and Craig Finn being unwitting contemporaries.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 21:56 (twenty-three years ago)

it didn't just occur to you, trust me--it's the reason my LP review and Sasha Frere-Jones's Streets piece ran on the same page in the Voice.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I only caught it online so I had no way of noticing that. Heh!

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 23:45 (twenty-three years ago)

More fodder for the fire - http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/20/arts/music/20REYN.html

James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 20 October 2002 07:41 (twenty-three years ago)

NY Times articles always strip the interesting stuff so that it can be accessable to their target not-so-hip audience. Nice article, no new meat and not enough about drugs.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 20 October 2002 08:22 (twenty-three years ago)


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