gentle giant

crimson?

Wow, tough one. My initial inclination is to go for Free Hand.

I think 'Interview' is the under appreciated one here...John Weathers and Ray Shulman were so tight and funky... one of the great british rhythm sections...probably would vote of 'Octopus' though...

Yea I suspect Octopus is going to walk this.

Octopus

in a glass house

i'm thinking In a Glass House too. my gateway into these guys was the King Biscuit Flower Hour, and though the youtubes don't seem to have "the runaway" or "experience"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBJjetta9M0

those two are major performance highlights

Three Friends. I was never that keen on In A Glass House for some reason, maybe I should play it more.
Civilian is underrated, still there was no chance for them by 1980 unless they were going to go the King Crimson / Discipline route. Or the Asia route. Neither of which had happened by then, so let's face it they were doomed.

Choosing was hard. I went for In a Glass House, juuust over Three Friends and Octopus

might want to toss a vote to Acquiring the Taste due to how much I unabashedly love that album. that dark little bass run part on "Edge of Twilight" is so incredible. I don't wanna be the dude who votes for albums because no one else will, though (I do think Octopus is probably the winner here)

clearly, I need to spend some more time with the first four post-Octopus albums, which have struck me as absolutely brilliant but also so intentionally convoluted that it's hard to make heads or tails out of them on the first few listens. its too bad they never figured out how to go the Genesis route - then again, who really did?

At the Record and Tape Exchange back in the day, albums used to be sorted into three categories - Grade 1 (the good, saleable stuff), Grade 2 (meh) and Grade 3 (dogshit). Some staff grafitti in one of the shops - "Gentle Giant rule Grade 2" - always runs through my mind when I see GG mentioned now (happily, they would prob be Grade 1, these days.)

The old WRC (web reviewing community) used to always talk about 'em that way, they weren't Grade-A King Crimson/Yes/Genesis level but they were one of those bands you'd get into once you ran out of prog records to buy. Re-reading those reviews now I really think they didn't understand what GG was about (Starostin says their debut is the best one, what the hell); they're so much closer to say Discipline-era Crimson than anything that Yes ever did. Come to think of it they also ragged hard on Van der Graaf Generator in much the same way.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Will this be the least voted on poll in ILX history?

ooh, almost forgot to vote

I played In a Glass House for my Dad who is an ELP nut and he said it was one of the greatest things he ever heard, no lie

I scanned that and conflated "who" "is" and "an" to read that your dad "was in ELP," which would have been awesome.

he's spending his fifties learning how to play the entirety of "Tarkus" and "Karn Evil 9" on piano, it's pretty amazing

imageless bands and their discontents

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

21 votes!! definitely expected Octopus to take this. I voted it myself though tbh that's just because of "Panruge".

I heard In A Glass House for the first time in a while and was really impressed by it.
I love the early stuff but don't like when the new drummer came in around 73 or 74, he sounds too busy. I have Octopus on my walkman as well as a '72 live set. Octopus is weird with the riffs being shared/carried on across different instruments.

_two_ votes for "giant for a day"? really?

Haven't listened to any GG in maybe 20 years, so in honor of this thread I gave Octopus a spin. I like most of the jazzy instrumentation, the contrapuntal vocals a little less so, but once the lyrics turn to...

See the troubadour play on the drum
Hear my songs on the lute that I strum.
I will make you laugh,
Revel, Merry-dance

...my eyes start to roll back in my head.

Kerry Minnear is everything I hope to be...

... what a weird thing to say

_two_ votes for "giant for a day"? really?

spooky boogie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSxlZQUqVPY

@questlove: the moment when The Shulman brothers send you the #GentleGiant stems #JesusChrist #IWishDillaWasHereForThis

Ha, the first track I made when I got ableton live was built off of gentle giant samples. It was pretty bumpin' too!

Here's the track if that kind of thing interests you. The production quality isn't great, but I like how the bassline develops.

Man, the Peel session version of 'On Reflection' is something else.

Hi, three years in the past me. Here is a really lovely cover of my fave GG song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lk1_0M_uPI

this would take ten pounds of weed to do justice to

https://www.allaboutjazz.com/unburied-treasure

the write-up or the box set?

Do love them up to Octopus. Think I still need to get the Bgo 2fer of the 1st 4. Been meaning to do that for last few years.
Hoping other editions aren't going to disappear to make way for the contents of this box. Are individual parts likely to be released individually.
& like the live sets I've heard.
Thought the drummer after that was overly busy on the tracks I'd heard.so haven't explored further. But those early lps and contemporary live stuff is fantastic.

octo-opus!

a shulman bros & co quarantine singalong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVDVSsM5aEA

this 50th anniversary reunion / fan collaboration video is really something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYjFP8gildU

someone pointed out "Way of Life" sounds like Mario Kart music and now it's kinda ruined for me

In a Glass House was the last Gentle Giant record I heard, when I got the 2005 reissue. It's good, but similar enough to the surrounding records that it doesn't quite distinguish itself as its own thing - just more (quality) GG music.
I first got into the band when Dave Marsh called them "bathetic bathwater" in, I think, The Book of Rock Lists; I immediately located an LP of Octopus at a local library. I'd have voted Free Hand in this, just a little more exciting than the others in that they are beginning to not to "pop" again in songs like "Time to Kill".

nod to pop!

i saw gentle giant and kiss on the same night in the same venue (but under separate admissions). i am not proud.

i really like in a glass house. it's a quiet record so it can drift into the background if i'm not paying attention. except for that one killer riff thing that always draws me back in.

I think by Glass House they had given themselves more permission to rock out in a more direct way. it has some really killer sections the likes of which they hadn't really touched before outside of "Advent of Panruge"

someone pointed out "Way of Life" sounds like Mario Kart music and now it's kinda ruined for me

I heard this song for the first time recently and it immediately reminded me of Max Tundra. Which, of course, he's a big GG fan.

In a Glass House is the first album of theirs I've bought, after sampling a bunch of them on Spotify. Feel like I could get really into Gentle Giant if I liked the vocals more, but so far that's the big weak point for me.

Yes, the vocals are a real problem with this band.

Wow I think their vocals are exceptional

Your mileage varies to an alarming degree.

I think the vocals are fine. idk if they would've worked with someone like Jon Anderson, Greg Lake, Geddy Lee, Peter Hammill, etc. those 3-part harmonies are so integral to what they do. maybe Echolyn is a good example of a band which does similar things with better singers. but the overall effect is the same.

The effect of their harmonies is what I was praising specifically

I heard this song for the first time recently and it immediately reminded me of Max Tundra. Which, of course, he's a big GG fan.

yeah I can totally see GG being a formative band for him. funny enough I saw him tweeting about his own frustrations in the industry - the feeling of making endlessly intricate & complex music that gets reviewed well and may even be quite influential but ultimately just doesn't attract a big enough audience. I immediately thought of Gentle Giant, particularly their Interview period where they seemed to realize the jig was up

Aside from the counterpoint bits (which I love), I always thought that splitting the lead vocals between Derek and Kerry (not so much Phil, while he was there) gave them a very wide scope, emotionally and musically. What are some songs that people feel are let down by the singing?

Everything sung by Derek Shulman, he just has an ugly, unattractive voice - and not in a WTF kind of Roger Chapman way. The other guy's voice is OK in small doses.

I wish he didn't have to strain so much but the way he can modulate intensity on a dime is a good asset. Their music thrives on that prickliness.

plug here but I interviewed video game composer Marty O'Donnell (Halo series) about Gentle Giant, he's a huge fan and it was interesting to hear him break down some of the musical theory behind their music

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5VKJdS2hd6SmTXWHtnB2wP?si=lRttiuJMTHSu_iwHR5iZAg&utm_source=copy-link

i live for those moments where his voice strains. it sort of flares out like a trumpet. all these cool harmonics. people don't like that?

Everything sung by Derek Shulman, he just has an ugly, unattractive voice... The other guy's voice is OK in small doses.

Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel. Think it's a matter of personal taste more than anything else, though frogbs's comment about Derek straining rings true to me.

Most prog vocalists are to be endured rather than enjoyed imo (Peter Gabriel excepted), but D. Shulman does make it difficult at times. The guy singing in quasi-tribute act Three Friends (actually featuring a couple of GG members) did it a lot better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7OXRQIXZaQ

Most prog vocalists are to be endured rather than enjoyed

Wow, I wouldn't say this about any of the big names in their prime, except Phil Collins and Gordon Haskell's brief time with King Crimson. Steve Howe solo doesn't count.

Phil Collins? He's one of the better prog vocalists!

yeah was gonna say

Maybe Ian Anderson? Idk I like most prog vocalists.

I sort of ignored these guys even during my big youthful prog phase, but they're sick as hell.

You wouldn't think of them as 'minimalist' with all the time changes and different instruments, but I love how not everyone is playing all the time, it's often just 1-3 instruments at a time (which makes sense with all the counterpoint stuff I guess). It makes it sound really clean in a way that dates well (and is sampling-friendly of course).

I'm listening to the Steven Wilson remixed versions, but still.

This was inspired by ilxor upper mississippi shakedown's podcast.

they started out playing r&b, which is so key. i keep coming back to christgau's review of the UK album: "John Piccarella: 'What the guys in U.K. apparently don't understand is that it's not impressive or difficult to rock out in 9/4--it's impossible.'" you know what, gentle giant could have rocked out in 9/4.

Especially once John Weathers joined. The earlier drummers didn't propel the music as well; possibly the drums were better recorded by 1972 as well.

Xpost to Jordan
I actually see GG as a precursor to crimson’s Discipline sound in some ways
I also thought Battles sounded like GG when they came out

Someone at The Wire compared Mercury Rev during the David Baker years to GG. Which i found interesting.
Possibly had me checking out their live stuff. & I do enjoy early live stuff but I think it's not exactly the comparison I would make.

How the fuck did anyone make that comparison?!

The first track on Octopus has a serious Dirty Projectors vibe, with that guitar part and all the vocal stuff.

plug here but I interviewed video game composer Marty O'Donnell (Halo series) about Gentle Giant, he's a huge fan and it was interesting to hear him break down some of the musical theory behind their music

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5VKJdS2hd6SmTXWHtnB2wP?si=lRttiuJMTHSu_iwHR5iZAg&utm_source=copy-link

This was good! Like Jordan I've been inspired to listen to more Gentle Giant by it.

regardless of what you think of this band you cannot deny they make the greatest faces while performing. every single one of them but especially John Weathers who, if I can be a little lewd here, acts like he is channeling that British dude who could not stop randomly orgasming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWfmfgHXAfE

RIP Ray Shulman…loved your bass playing…so funky…and you were a superb producer too…travel well

oof. a real bummer.

Ray (RIP) playing guitar here, Derek looking and sounding pretty cool, Phil? Well judge for yourself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBd7zytZ2-Y

Wonder if he did that during "Pantagruel's Nativity".

... or this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT-3SAcsosI

By the way there was a 4th Shulman who co-wrote a lot of Simon Dupree material - their older sister, Eve!

...and a fifth: Calvin, son of Phil, who did the boy soprano vocal on "Schooldays" from Three Friends.

Not to mention Calvin's brother Damon, who played in UK neo-prog band Different Trains and released some solo albums. He seems to have some musical offspring too!

One of their most ridiculous songs imho, but now I'm so ready for the Lego Gentle Giant movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga0W_Zk3IEM

remix of this sounds really good. you can actually hear the bass!!

that video is great!

just chiming in to say Playing the Fool might be the single greatest live prog album ever made