XTC : Classic or Dud.

I don't know much of their very early stuff and I have a certain knowledge dip in the late Virgin years, but I would consider Black Sea, English Settlement, Nonsuch and Skylarking to be classic. No question whatsoever. Apple Venus Volume One is a loveable museum piece, Wasp Star fizzes but somehow isn't as likeable as it could be. For the range of their music alone, though (I don't feel the need to choose, although "Making Plans For Nigel" was always awful new wavy Kinksiness), classic.

I don't like/get "Oranges and Lemons" -too session slick.

Mark, it's funny how your "left-behind 60s" sentence *is* Skylarking in a nutshell for me, but you say something as perceptive about it from the perspective of someone left unmoved, as I think I ever have from the perspective of someone who's moved by it endlessly, constantly, wonderfully. Interesting.

"Oranges and Lemons" is the only relative dud IMHO.

I guess I should get volume 2.

Skylarking: Best Beatles influenced album ever, by anybody, past or future

Black Sea: So classic

First album: Also classic. Especially with the extra tracks on the CD.
Of special note is the cover of "All Along The Watchtower". Hilarious, unforgettable, and wonderfully funky. Beats the crap out of the original.

There is no need to ask if they were classic or not.

Here's a query: What is the correlation between XTC positivity and Olivia Tremor Control fandom? It seem to me each act reinterpreted 60s pop singles in a different, though sorta similar way.

NEITHER CLASSIC NOR DUD
Nonesvch
Drums and Wires

DUD
Oranges and Lemons
Wasp Star

D: Mummer; Oranges and Lemons; Nonsuch (or whatever that's called)

Also C: Lots of their singles, like "Heaven Is Paved with Broken Glass"; "Blame the Weather"; etc.

Weren't as good after Terry Chambers left, I don't think. Not a band I listen to any more, but always glad to hear individual tracks like "It's Nearly Africa" and esp. "Jason and the Argonauts."

That's the weird thing about XTC.

In 1992 I bought The Compact XTC, listened to it a few times, hated it, and put it away. Over the ensuing weeks, I forced myself to listen to it again and again [usually in the background whilst doing homework], and one day something snapped: I understood the depth of the music, and couldn't stop listening to it.

Having decided this was one of the best albums I'd ever heard, I spent the next couple of years building up my collection. Here's the crucial bit: Every album had the same effect. On the first listen of every album, I hated it, and it took a good 20+ listens before I 'got' each one; but once each album hit that threshold, I couldn't put it down for literally months on end.

Thinking I was nuts, I introduced XTC to several friends, all of whom didn't like it. Months later, most of them had done an about face and were raving about XTC, just as I had done.

So, it's urgent and key to bear this in mind: Repeated listening of XTC will reap rewards. I've not known any other band to produce work of such consistently high quality and enormous depth. It's music that grows and grows and grows, and -- most importantly -- it rewards effort in ways you cannot imagine.

Oranges and Lemons sux, but King For A Day still gets me every time, and Garden Of Earthly Delights isn't so bad.

The live version of Battery Brides on the Transister Blast box set OWNZ.

Oranges & Lemons is fantastic. King for a Day irritates the hell out of me, but there are sooo many gems on that album, and as a piece it works beautifully. Easily one of my favourites. Fox and Thacker are gods.

That's interesting... Why can't music come with a "Guaranteed that you will ultimately twig" sticker, rather than some daft parental advisory thing.

I did buy Waxworks/Beeswax on compact cassette about 1986 based on loving "Making plans for Nigel" and "Senses working overtime", so I have tried pretty hard; maybe it's a bit of concentrated listening I need. As I say though, I love Apple Venus volume 1 now, so perhaps the rest will click.

with the appearance of bands like dogs die in hot cars and the futureheads, maybe we're getting an xtc revival?

Fave track on Oranges & Lemons (their last decent album) = "Across this Antheap".

And you may not like Apple Venus Vol. 1, Alex, but it's at least "decent."

"King for a Day" doesn't remind me of the Police either. It's a fine, pleasant song, but just a little too overproduced for my taste (like much of the Orange & Lemons album, I think).

I listened to Oranges and Lemons for the first time in years recently -- I found a used CD copy for $2, and it's easily worth that. While the production is annoying, what I found interesting is that the track I used to blow past are the only ones I really enjoyed. If you can get past the bad lyrics that infect the entire record, there are a few gems: "The Loving," "One of the Millions," and "Hold Me My Daddy" stand out.

Whatever. It's still all about English Settlement.

Big Express? Ehhhhh......with the exception of a few tracks, it's not their finest. Never cared for Mummer so much, either.

Then, of course....there are THE DUKES OF STRATOSPHEAR,.....who quite thoroughly rock.

Mummer would have been 10 times better had the same tracks been sequenced differently. It's chock full of top tunes, but the running order is just woeful.

O&L's high production really works in favour of the music, I reckon. Apart from King for a Day, which is agony to my ears. The raw power behind Antheap et al really pronounces the strengths in the songwriting. I agree on the relatively weak lyrics though; I think there were a few hassles with Virgin around that time, with the label wanting Partridge to produce hit singles and such.

Anyone heard the Fuzzy Warbles stuff? It's some of the best Partridge has ever done, and it's not overproduced. :)

My interpretation of 'Didn't Hurt A Bit' was that the narrator is attempting to make out to his pals that the end of his fling/dalliance/romance hasn't bothered him when in fact he's quietly gutted, but can't let them know.

Latest gleanings, in case anyone wants to live vicariously through somebody who hadn't knowingly heard an XTC song until this week:

Playground is wonderful. The chorus is so winning, and you would think it's enough to carry a song, but then the backing vocals come in with that two-note hook around 2:20 and ohhhh shit, pop perfection.

My Brown Guitar is wonderful. The bombastic drumming. The blissfully contented outro. And goddam, lines like these: "There be green grass / There be pink skies / There be bluebirds / Come and nest there." (I always go on about this, but lyrics in English are so much better when they don't rhyme.)

I didn't think Church of Women was wonderful on first two listens, but it's been stuck in my head all day.

Mind blown to pieces by Ship Trapped in the Ice. It's as good as Wheel/Maypole. If middle eights of this caliber are *characteristic* of Andy Partridge's songwriting, then I am in for one hell of a trip.

'Ship Trapped in the Ice' was recorded straight after Partridge demoed 'The Wheel and the Maypole'. No idea why it didn't go on to feature on an XTC album, as it's a great track.

Colin's 'Standing in for Joe' reminds me very much of Steely Dan's 'Barrytown'.

in case anyone wants to live vicariously through somebody who hadn't knowingly heard an XTC song until this week

Your approach to their discography has made for an enjoyable revive.

I'm one of those that thinks "Wounded Horse" is a skip. It's just way too straightforward musically, with almost no arrangement details to make up for it. I'd say the leaden tempo also didn't help but "No Language in our Lungs" is pretty slow and that song's fantastic. Dave Gregory might have made "Horse" passable; Wasp Star in general is lacking in arrangements

It's fun and perlexing, in an exciting sort of way, to hear these grievances regarding Wasp Star's thin arrangements, because they sound wonderfully full to me.

I love this album more with every listen. The Man Who Murdered Love feels like the slightest song of the bunch (alongside Standing In for Joe) but I like it, it's got that charmingly cheesy "just gonna rock out on this one, ya hear" McCartney thing going on. Standing In for Joe has grown on me a bit because there's something really sonically attractive happening every fifteen to twenty seconds. And the rest of the songs I just love. That includes In Another Life. Colin does kind of sound like the sort of secondary songwriter you keep around for old time's sake -- his style feels way tamer than Andy's -- but In Another Life and Boarded Up are both pretty great. "I'll take your mood swings if you'll take my hobbies, it all works out in the end."

Now I've made myself a 25-minute playlist of the Fuzzy Warbles that didn't make it onto either Apple Venus. My Land is Burning, holy fuck! Grandiose and beautiful! I get why it didn't make Wasp Star, its darkness and drama don't fit the surface-happiness of the album (Wasp Star is suuuch a happy-SOUNDING album, I love that about it). But songwriting-wise, it's in Ship and Maypole territory.

I put my ten-song Fuzzy Warble playlist upthread. definitely some interesting tunes in there if you're willing to sift through eight discs

More controversially: what's wrong with Fruit Nut?!

I'm being facetious, I think I get why people would look down on the two Colin songs, but -- it's interesting to be exploring the catalogue backwards -- it's these two Apple Venus songs that have made me start to understand why there's so much love for Colin on ILX threads. I've always loved Paul McCartney's dancehall throwbacks, and these two Colins are right along those lines. Except they're arranged to high heaven. And aren't they playing a beautiful role on the tracklist? Two dips back down to earth amidst all Andy's ancient-vein mysticism. I mean, even Your Dictionary feels kind of holy. "Now let our marriage be undone" -- chills. Let alone the likes of Greenman or (holy fuuuuuck) The Last Balloon.

Also, thanks Vinnie! I looked up your selection and have it bookmarked for future investigation.

And one more also: I woke up this morning with My Brown Guitar stuck in my head. The song makes me stupidly happy.

It's interesting to read about you working your way backwards through the catalogue, Nu.

I dropped into XTC world just after Skylarking was released, I knew the singles, had bought a copy of Waxworks and was delighted to find I sorta subconsciously knew (and liked) most of the tracks from the radio. And that's where I started, working backwards from Skylarking and sideways into the Dukes and the solo stuff.

I'll bite though :) I mean Fruit Nut isn't *that* bad I guess. At the time, the news of a new album and weight of expectation was heavy, stacked up against the more arguably far-reaching tunes on AV, it's a rather slight ditty, Colin's more explicitly prosaic lyrical references really kick in with the last two albums, pottering around in sheds etc:

It wouldn't now, but back then it gave me the ick tbh.

I'm also enjoying your journey, Nu. If you're this excited about the Apple Venus albums, I'm so curious to see how you'll react to their more well-known works. I started with finding the Upsy Daisy Assortment on sale, a one-disc compilation with some strange selections, but did a good enough job to get me hooked

I quite like Colin's contributions to Apple Venus Vol 1, especially "Fruit Nut". Great counterpoint to Andy's heavier tracks like "Your Dictionary" and "I Can't Own Her". Though I still think Andy outshines Colin pretty bad on Apple Venus - I love nearly all of Andy's songs on that album

I'll also note that imo nearly all of Colin's best work is pre-Nonsuch, so I don't think you've really gotten to the stuff we love him for!

I will try to resist the temptation to wave my giant MUMMER #1! foam finger about, if the time comes.

If it's too large I would at minimum help hold up one corner and point to it. I remember always getting the ambient message that it was some kind of dud, but when I finally got around to it ... maybe it's just a bit of a deep fan's album, the one that's more understated and spacious so it makes a cozy place to dwell once you've burned in the more immediate stuff? (Or maybe it's just the hot choice of people who aren't all that crazy for English Settlement, I dunno.)

The main difference between Colin after Nonsuch is that he tends to veer towards whimsy, with a lower, gravelly singing voice that he described at times as being like "a bit of a molester"

Andy was still trying to paint the sky in bright colours

Love this.

The main difference between Colin after Nonsuch is that he tends to veer towards whimsy, with a lower, gravelly singing voice that he described at times as being like "a bit of a molester"

Ha!... Colin's vocals (and some of his preferred lyrical themes) do make him sound kinda like the hobbit down the lane.

I'm inching on backwards, in Nonsuch's direction. Can't contain my curiosity. Mare's Nest, yesss, Didn't Hurt a Bit is exquisite.

I love the moments on Apple Venus when Andy goes all "fuck word stress." -- "I heard the dandelion roar in Picadilly Circus." and "when I say I can't own her / I don't mean to buy her / It's nothing at all to do with money."

Apple Venus is just one ridiculously lush and touching song after another, isn't it? ... it keeps reminding me of Tull's Songs from the Woods, in spirit / intent. But with the raunch replaced by retrospection [/held over for Wasp Star]. And more focus on sheer beauty.

When you get to Oranges & Lemons, keep an eye/ear out for One Of The Millions, a Colin tune that I would argue has drifted closest to Tull, musically at least.

Also, the Chalkhills XTC resource is a fantastic site, very Web 1.0 and chock full of details and old interviews.

Apple Venus is just one ridiculously lush and touching song after another, isn't it?

With the exception of 'Your Dictionary' which seems mean-spirited and out of place on Apple Venus.

Andy originally didn't want Your Dictionary on the album but was talked into it.

Andy and Colin were supposedly once discussing their songwriting and decided that Andy was an indoor person who writes outdoor songs and Colin was the opposite.

WASP. STAR. AAAAAAAAAH

The existence of every unlistenably radio-friendly album of the back half of the 1990s is now justified in my heart, insofar as that sound/production philosophy informed/influenced Wasp Star.

I'm also busy losing my head over Side A of Nonsuch (it's been so fun to take XTC LP side by LP side). Not sure whether I would enjoy The Ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead as much as I do if I didn't know Andy called it his attempt to write a Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers song. (That Chalkhills site is amazing, Mare's! What wealth!)

thats a cool way to get into them. you seem like someone who would prefer the later period but I'm guessing you'll flip over every album down to English Settlement. before that they were New Wavey and kinda punk actually, like a harder hitting version of The Attractions

I am kinda wondering how Wasp Star wound up sounding like *that*, the songs were mostly written before that sort of production really took over radio rock, guessing they gave the producer more leeway with Gregory gone. the answer's probably in one of the many XTC books.

and yes, Chalkhills is a great resource, a lot more useable than those garbage wiki pages popping up everywhere for bands, it's like a relic from when the internet used to be good

it's like a relic from when the internet used to be good

Like ILM!

Spiral and Say It are fantastic, huh? Pretty telling that there's no Colin on the Andy song and no Andy on the Colin song. Too bad they couldn't have run with that approach a little longer though, it works for me...

The million dollar question is -- having begun my whole XTC affair with The Wheel and the Maypole, will I ever hear a song I like *more* ? Given the boost inherent in "the song that got me into the band" status, it looks like the answer may well be "no" ... I'm crazy about River of Orchids right now but it still leaves me thinking, "It's ridiculous and perfect but it's not quite The Wheel and the Maypole, is it?"

thats tough because its two brilliant songs in one. but rest assured Partridge's songwriting genius is apparent on pretty much all their albums, maybe not so much the first two, but those are incredibly fun in their own way

Excellent.

And just wanna add here, quietly, that some fifteen listens in, I *love* both Colin songs on Apple Venus. They thrill the album-builder in me.

yeah people rag on those tunes but I think they make sense in the context of the album itself. I don't really listen to them otherwise though. once you get to know Colin's songwriting style its hard not to get the feeling that he was sort of checked out by then.

I love Fruit Nut and Frivolous Tonight as well. On the first few listens I didn't, and thought them jarring in the context of the album as a whole, but came to love them as I appreciated them for what they are - essentially, middle-aged songs. The band is back after a hiatus of seven years, their lives have changed in that time, they're no longer youngsters. Either one of those tracks could be in Ever Decreasing Circles: the Musical, and "a man must have a shed to keep him sane is something I can well imagine Martin Brice (Briers) saying to his neighbour Paul Ryan (Egan).

saw EXTC last night, it was really fun! I admit it took a few songs to be won over but yeah, they own the "tribute band" thing in a way that's pretty charming, both frontmen seem very nice, and you could see huge smiles amongst the entire crowd. I mean, why not, very few people have actually seen this music performed live before. They played nearly all of Black Sea plus a bunch of assorted songs from throughout their career. many of which I wasn't expecting to hear - I thought the band's repertoire might end where Terry left, but nah, they go all the way to the end. the two hours just flew by.

After passing them up their first time here I really wanted to go the second time, but ended up getting Covid.

I sat out this current tour and they start playing Optimism's Flames :(

I would definitely go see them if I could. Just seems like these songs deserve to be played live by somebody, TC being involved is a bonus. I imagine he'd do a great "Peter Pumpkinhead" if he still plays like he used to

Well I did get to see them. Only found out they were playing in my town hours before the show, but was able to make it. "Peter Pumpkinhead" and some of the latter-day tracks weren't as good as I imagined, but all the early stuff was fantastic. Couldn't believe that Steve was playing Dave Gregory's part and singing Andy's part on many songs - very talented guys in that band

In 1992 I bought The Compact XTC, listened to it a few times, hated it, and put it away. Over the ensuing weeks, I forced myself to listen to it again and again [usually in the background whilst doing homework], and one day something snapped: I understood the depth of the music, and couldn't stop listening to it.

Having decided this was one of the best albums I'd ever heard, I spent the next couple of years building up my collection. Here's the crucial bit: Every album had the same effect. On the first listen of every album, I hated it, and it took a good 20+ listens before I 'got' each one; but once each album hit that threshold, I couldn't put it down for literally months on end.

this is funny because I just had this experience. I'd heard Oranges and Lemons, and Nonsuch, when they came out as they were a friend's favorite things ever, but they just never clicked for me. Over the years I purchased Black Sea, Skylarking, and Drums and Wires on CD but other than Skylarking, which I did like a lot, it was just leaving me cold. Then for some reason three weeks ago I gave Big Express a listen, and it's snowballed from there. I'm still not sold on Nonsuch, it's ok, but basically everything from Drums and Wires through Oranges and Lemons is just different shades of genius, I can't stop listening to them.

what does "waterproof parquet theses" mean

Nonsuch was actually the first one I'd ever heard. I rented it from the library after TMBG namechecked them. I thought it was mostly boring. Then I heard Drums and Wires and was like...how is this the same band? Only a decade earlier? Anyway I did eventually learn to really like Nonsuch. I think it would be a lot higher regarded if it was trimmed to like...12 songs though

I was playing Drums and Wires in the car the other day and my son says “these guys sound like the Kaiser Chiefs”

culling just war dance and holly on poppy would have been a huge help in making the album less of a slog. the other problem was the producer, after the crashing thud of pumpkinhead the drumming is so muted and there are no dynamics. the portentious ballads rook and world wrapped in grey sound too wheedling. crocodile and ugly underneath are too heavy on the vocals and light on guitar bite.

i think a dead man’s pop style remix could excavate these recordings’ appeal.

Black Sea gives me LIFE! It's my absolute favorite. My roommates and I played it all the time. Live recordings of this era of the band are just incredible. I love their beautiful, pastoral stuff, too, but hyper XTC is beastly.

rook and wrapped in grey are two of my 20 favourite songs ever probably

XTC are one of those groups where I just make the assumption, without rancour, that three or four songs on each album are going to prove irritating or dull and just accept the record on that basis. Andy (most likely) is going to occasionally rant tunelessly about some preoccupation of his. Exceptions: Skylarking and White Music, though the latter is probably their most objectively irritating release.

Everyone is irritating on "White Music", usually it's just Andy, true.

XTC drummer Terry Chambers is out touring the US now. I missed the dc area gig near me

Wiki says :
Terry Peter Chambers is an English drummer who was a member of the band XTC from 1972 to 1982 and the popular Australian–New Zealand group Dragon between 1983 and 1985. He appears on all of XTC's albums between White Music and Mummer

see current revive

yeah in retrospect some of Colin's early songs like "Cross Wires" and "Dance Band" are such amusing outliers in that way, I've always wondered if those songs were Colin making fun of Andy's style

feel like Andy was one of the last remaining guys to be really into the idea of having songs 'sound' like the words in their title. you can especially hear that on The Big Express.

the similarity between "Stupidly Happy" and Third Eye Blind's "Never Let You Go" gets mentioned a lot so I figured I'd have a go at combining them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn54ksYvyrk

Thanks a lot, frog, now I won't be able to listen to anything but Wasp Star again for weeks.

(Smooooooth mix.)

omigod

Well made!

feel like Andy was one of the last remaining guys to be really into the idea of having songs 'sound' like the words in their title.

Pretty much every time I've seen him talk about writing a song, he describes coming up with an initial riff and then thinking — for instance — "this feels like earth and soil, it reminds me of farming and my great-grandparents, this will be a song about a farmboy's courtship." I feel like I've seen him explain this with lots of songs and it always makes wonderful immediate sense, like ... yeah, that riff on "Mermaid Smiled" really does have a hint of sea spray to it! He calls this "synaesthesia" but it seems more in the range of just, like, having really well-developed real-world associations with sounds. (And wisely letting them guide you toward writing about all sorts of interesting topics, instead of trying to choose and impose the subject matter.)

something about Andy's songs always reminded me of model train sets, like a miniature version of the real word recreated in painstaking detail, the songs themselves feel like little miniature worlds that he's exploring. I remember reading something about him spending a long period of his childhood confined to bed due to illness, and I think a lot of XTC songs have this quality of sounding like a make-believe world invented by an imaginative child who go outside, simultaneously impossibly vast and also and hermetically sealed. (Like a fantasy novel that spends a lot of time and effort detailing the fantasy world's landscapes and history and languages etc, where the fussy level of detail makes it seem bigger in some ways but smaller in others, in that it makes it discernible that this is something that has been invented by one mind and where everything fits neatly together)

I think Steve Harley also spend some of his childhood confined to bed, and his music has a similar quality in some ways

In some old interview I read that Andy and Colin were once discussing their approaches to songwriting, and they decided that Andy was an indoor guy who wrote outdoor songs and Colin was an outdoor guy who wrote indoor songs.