if Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever were on Sgt. Pepper, where would you put them?

George Martin famously said in the Beatles Anthology that not putting Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever on Sgt. Pepper was one of the biggest mistakes they ever made. I think if these two songs were on the LP, there wouldn't be any of this Revolver revisionism and Sgt. Pepper would be on even MORE top whatever lists! Seriously though it's a damn shame two of the best songs of that period were left off the record proper.

the rub is - where do you put them? Even though Sgt. Pepper is only 39 minutes, they wouldn't have been able/willing to put more than 6 or 7 songs on each side. So where would you put them, and what would you cut?

this is what I'm thinking-

1. "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"
2. "With a Little Help from My Friends"
3. "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"
4. "Getting Better"
5. "Fixing a Hole"
6. "She's Leaving Home"
7. "Strawberry Fields Forever"

8. "Within You Without You"
9. "When I'm Sixty-Four"
10. "Penny Lane"
11. "Good Morning Good Morning"
12. "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)"
13. "A Day in the Life"

I'd put SFF after Fixing a Hole and before Leaving Home; Penny Lane to open side two followed by WYWY

On Side 3, sandwiching "Carnival of Light"

The OP's order works pretty well, actually(!)

Right at the beginning in the original order (SFF then PL) leading into the title track. Bounce "Mr. Kite" to the first song on side 2 if necessary.

if i absolutely had to, i'd replace 'lucy' with 'strawberry fields' and 'getting better' with 'penny lane.' but tbh i think the album works better without those two songs -- they're great, but they'd call too much attention to themselves.

Like Gimme Shelter and You Can't Always Get What You Want on Let It Bleed.

first post has it pretty right i think, the only change i might make is put 'penny lane' between 'wywy' and 'when im' 64' (or maybe have 'penny lane' replace '64' though that's more cuz i like 'rita' more than '64'). 'sff' definitely needs to end side one. agree that as is w/ these songs not on sgt peppers works best.

I wouldn't put Strawberry Fields Forever on the same side as Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds.

Penny Lane on side one, in between Lucy and Fixing a Hole, or maybe in place of With a Little Help. And SFF on side two, possibly between WI64 and GMGM.

I would at first purge all traces of The Beatles from this planet piece by piece, using nanobots and flame-throwers. Then I would bludgeon Paul McCartney to death with a lump hammer. After I had finished weighing in 18 tons of shitty John Lennon memorabilia, that's the point where I bury a fucking icepick in Ringo.

Sgt. Pepper for me is the epitome of an album where you can't imagine the selection of tracks being altered AT ALL.

yeah that's what this album needs, penny lane

The Sgt Pepper EP:

Strawberry Fields Forever
Getting Better
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)

More or less as the OP, but bring back Rita, get rid of Within You Without You and stick Penny Lane in its place.

Xelab - you didn't say where you would put them?

The only route for human waste is into a sewer where gravity pulls it towards it's final destination. but the beatles actually belong in hell.

^lol Internet ppl

These songs have a little bit of a "cleaner" sound than the rest of Pepper no?

What do you mean No? Not had a chance in the last five decades to listen to any of of this fucking garbage?

More or less as the OP, but bring back Rita, get rid of Within You Without You and stick Penny Lane in its place.

― Turtleneck Work Solutions (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, May 30, 2014 6:38 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i would definitely do the same but i feel like WYWY can't be cut because its the only george song, even though its my least favorite song on the record by far

probably doesn't work out time wise but this is a different approach

sgt peppers
w/ a little help from my friends
lsd
getting better
fixing a hole
penny lane
she's leaving home

strawberry fields forever
wywy
for the benefit of mr kite
carnival of light
good morning good morning
sgt pepper reprise
a day in the life

o shit someone has challops about the beatles

yeah, it's kind of cute <3

go w/ the op's side 1, sub out "good morning good morning" for "lovely rita" on side 2

but yeah gnash gnash fury beatles etc

Timeless melodies ewww worst group ever

the outro of "lovely rita" (probably the best part of the whole record) into "good morning" is one of the all time brilliant segues. can't really touch 10-13. same goes with 1-4 so...

keep 1-4.
5. "she's leaving home"
6. "mr kite"
7. "strawberry fields"

8. "within you"
9. "penny lane."
keep 10-13.

george's "only a northern song" was also cut if that makes a difference to anyone.

ilm should have a subsite for ppl that eg itt

i always thought there wasn't enough john on this one so i have no issues subbing SFF for a paul song.

couple of the Lennon songs here are kinda slight though so maybe it was for the best?

2014

probably doesn't work out time wise but this is a different approach

My favorite so far. And if people's minds were blown by "Day" in 1967, pretty sure there woulda been mass freakouts in the streets with "Carnival" on the same record.

in this new alternate reality, side B of magical mystery tour would then have to include "it's all too much" and "all together now."

many xposts:

Yeah, let's not forget that 'Only A Northern Song' was also recorded during the Pepper sessions!

I'm tempted to say I wouldn't add either song, all though come to think of it "Penny Lane" does effortlessly disappear the layers of haze which Pepper's gaudier colors (circus imagery, blasts of treble, McC's deliberate vocal strain on the title song) push against. But isn't the woolgathering stoner inertia of "Strawberry Fields" (name of a boys' school, a bad boys' school, I think) already obviously implied by the moody vibe of said haze? I'd rather ditch "Within You Without You", sub "PL" for "Lovely Rita", and follow "Day In The Life" (the dramatic ending of which always did feel too BOW DOWN) with the cool come-along-if-you-can (and if you trust "It is not dying," esp. after "Day")of "Tomorrow Never Knows," the back-to-reality-but, but with guitar blast of "Taxman" and closing time with "I Am The Walrus," because fuck you and googoogajoob to mundane reality.

Main problem is SFF/PL are both from a pre-Pepper concept album that was more about nostalgia and their childhoods than random psychedelic meta band concept, so if they were included they would probably retain a few Pepper tracks but they would probably write completely different songs to keep going in that theme.

I thought Martin's regret was about acquiescing to Capitol's demand for a new single, and handing over PL/SFF? I don't remember him saying he wished he'd later slotted PL/SFF into Pepper once Pepper was underway/completed.

I'm sure he's said both over the 50 or so years since release.

"Lovely Rita" is magnificent. Has me thinking again about the discussion last week on the Revolver thread about Beatles-as-rock-band sound or the lack thereof on the '67-'68 records. Ringo's performance is so good and though they might not have been able to do it live, I feel like they are owning a slower groove in a way that they had never done before on this track.

3. "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"
4. "Getting Better"
5. "Fixing a Hole"

The most boring three-song run on any Beatles album.

I wonder what they would've done if they were still playing live shows.

I mean, har har, probably keep playing Rubber Soul songs like they did after Revolver, but really. Would they play the whole album in sequence each time? Because LSD as Song No. 3 each night would wear me down so much.

still playing live shows in 1967, if I wasn't clear.

1967 Songs They Could Tour

Sgt. Pepper
With a Little Help from My Friends
Magical Mystery Tour
Getting Better
I Am the Walrus
Hello Goodbye
Sgt. Pepper Reprise
A Day in the Life

Plus these tracks from Revolver

Taxman
I'm Only Sleeping
Yellow Submarine (crowd sing-along, encore?)
And Your Bird Can Sing
Doctor Robert
She Said She Said
I Want to Tell You
Got to Get You Into My Life
Tomorrow Never Knows (Lennon on organ drone, Paul on tape manipulation, Ringo drums, George bass or noise guitar)

George threatened to quit until the others (and Epstein) promised there'd be no more touring. In 1966 they'd gotten death threats in Japan, harassed and robbed of their gate money in the Philippines, received terrorist threats from the Klan in the US, and thought they'd been shot at in Memphis (it was a firecracker). I think the last thing on their minds after all that was "So which one of us should play the mellotron when we do 'Strawberry Fields' live?"

You're participating in a What If thread, ya know.

I know. I don't want to spoil the party, so I'll go.

But yeah, it would've been cool to see how they would have approached those songs live.

Penny Lane after Fixing a Hole. SFF first track on side 2, bump Mr Kite to side 2 track 2. Take out WYWY and 64.

Or maybe PL after With a Little Help.

^^^ I can hear the segue between last note of Little Help and the intro to Penny Lane in my head!

My parents went to that show in Memphis. The "John & Yoko" made-for-TV movie in the 80s starts off there and shows the KKK protests, the firecracker, etc.

My mom says she doesn't remember any of that, but she does remember Gladys Knight & The Pips opening. The world wide web here says it was The Ronnettes who opened in Memphis.

I can't find anything online about Gladys Knight ever opening for the Beatles, but what the hell, I'll take Mom's side anyway.

This wasn't smooth, but it was fun to listen to anyway:

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
A Little Help from My Friends
Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite
Fixing a Hole
Only A Northern Song
When I'm Sixty-Four
She's Leaving Home
Strawberry Fields Forever

Within You Without You
Penny Lane
Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds
Getting Better
Lovely Rita
Good Morning Good Morning
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
A Day in the Life

yeah "with a little help" into "penny lane" sounds cool, although i still prefer the segue of "little help" into "lsd" imo.

PL into Lucy works pretty well too.

"3. "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"
4. "Getting Better"
5. "Fixing a Hole"

The most boring three-song run on any Beatles album."

u crazy

Maybe, but Lucy is a nice idea spoilt by the Bungalow Bill chorus and then the next two songs are identical, and really boring. To be honest, I just remember them as boring until I'm listening to the album (once every 10 years), when they both sound kind of alright. This is in contrast to, for instance, Good Day Sunshine or Got to Get You Into My Life, both of which I remember as boring, but when listened to they become terrific and exciting.

I've tried. Just doesn't do it for me.

How is it draggy, it has such a great groove to it

Yeah, it's one of Ringo's better moments on the record (and his playing on the rest of the album isn't too shabby).

'Lovely Rita' is awful, and taking into account McCartney's entire discography (Beatles, Wings, Paul McCartney & Wings, Paul & Linda McCartney, The Fireman etc. etc. etc.) would probably rank somewhere in the bottom of the middle of the table.

with the "brilliant" crowd. the arrangement's over-cluttered with zany detailing, the fist part of the verse a bit too affectedly jolly, but the chorus harmonies kill me everytime. michelle shocked did a nice, stripped-down version for the NME's sgt pepper knew my father comp once upon a time. made me take it down from youtube tho :(

xpost ok, that is insane. i don't think there's more than like 2 or 3 wings songs that deserve to be in the same building as 'lovely rita,' and i like wings ok.

"lovely rita" is a great, little pop song. never have heard a convincing argument of it's supposed short-comings beyond "I don't like it".

That's what most criticisms of music come down to ultimately.

It's no 'Here, There & Everywhere' or 'For No One'. It's no 'My Brave Face', 'Maybe I'm Amazed' or 'Letting Go' either.

"lovely rita" is a great, little pop song. never have heard a convincing argument of it's supposed short-comings beyond "I don't like it".

― Darin, Friday, June 6, 2014 12:22 PM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'great little pop songs', per the classicist meaning of the phrase, are almost without exception pointless and terrible

challenging

even tho everyone ITT disagrees with everyone else ITT you are all still wrong

^new borad description

lovely rita is great. certainly better than mr kite

Nah, 'Mr. Kite' has the great tape effects and the excellent middle section where it goes into waltz time. 'Lovely Rita' is the kind of song where if it was on a Wings album, hardly anyone would give a shit about it.

doubling down on being insane does not make you less so

Did fucking OP left out Lovely Rita out of the original tracklist? That's the only untouchable gem on this record.

Also they could have easily turned it into a 4 sides LP with the amount of b-sides and material they had. Magical Mystery Tour could have been added
Into it too if we're playing god.

you want to just add the white album while we're at it

'A Day In The Life' is the untouchable gem on this record.

You're actually right on that one. But come on! How can you leave Lovely Rita out of Sgt. Pepper?

Wasn't the full B-side of Magical Mystery tour comprised of songs recorded and released before sgt pepper? Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane, Baby You're a rich man and I am the Walrus. Could have been included in here since they had already been recorded (and released as singles) iirc. Need a Beatles stan to confirm this data.

On the other hand, thank god they didn't include all you need is love and hello goodbye.

strawberry fields and penny lane were recorded during sgt peppers sessions, released a few months before. baby you're a rich man was recorded after sgt pepper sessions (a couple of weeks before release of sgt peppers), released about a month afterwards, i am the walrus was recorded and released months after sgt peppers.

What about this track listing (from The Internet Beatles Album):

http://i.imgur.com/mT8xlnI.gif

In another Sgt. Pepper's related oddity, the official version of the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band LP made by EMI in South East Asia/Malaysia/Hong Kong was censored of three songs that apparently could have possibly been interpreted as being "drug related".

So that'll be 'Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds', 'With A Little Help From My Friends' and 'A Day In The Life' they removed, then.

'Baby You're A Rich Man' doesn't deserve to be on a Beatles album, IMO.

Weird they took those off but left in Fixing A Hole.

baby you're a rich man was huge in the phillipines

Spelling it "I'm the Walrus" makes me laugh irrationally hard.

"I'm the eggman, they're the eggmen, I'm the walrus, g'goo g'joob." Here's your cubicle, the break room is down the hall...

Step up suckers, here comes the chorus
because don't you know
I'm the Walrus
I'm so bad
I should be sitting on a cornflake
SHUT SHUT SHUT SHUT UP

baby you're a rich man was huge in the phillipines

― brimstead, Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:13 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was!? (providing that this isn't a deeply, painfully unfunny joke, of course)

is penny lane ever played on the radio

xp ha no just a deeply bad post borne of anecdotal evidence: my dad just says he heard it way more than any other beatles tune there in 67-68.

is penny lane ever played on the radio

― when is the new Jim O'Rourke album coming out (spazzmatazz), Tuesday, February 24, 2015 6:13 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've heard it on the radio a fair few times, but 'Strawberry Fields Forever' is definitely the more played of the two sides.

Hello,

I would put Strawberry Fields at the start of side 2, then the fade-out shenanigans would lead into the fade-in of "Within you"

yeah?

can't believe people slag off Lovely Rita. the production on that opening guitar.. aww man.

"Got the bill and Rita paid it.. " now hang on..

In terms of all the songs Paul McCartney has ever written, including Beatles, Wings, solo and under numerous guises, I'd definitely rank 'Lovely Rita' in the bottom half of the middle of the table.

Oh shit, I noticed I said pretty much exactly the same thing months and months ago! Yay for consistency!

listening to an old Beatles bootleg LP called "Nothing is Real". side one is all "Strawberry Fields Forever" outtakes. it is really incredible stuff. the early takes are very wonderful and dreamy. Take 1 of "SFF" is dreampop. the mellotron alongside Ringo's towel-dampened drums is a great, soft sound. i want to say proto-Eno at points. very muted and warm, very ambient. Ringo's drumming is the best, still my favorite of anybody's, he has this swing down so perfectly, but it's very understated. there are some drum and bass feels here but it is pulled off not with a live drum fill on just snare and kick.

the mellotron is still one of my favorite sounds. i've also been listening to "House of the Holy" this year which may use the same flute sample. it is sample-based music the Beatles were working with here, i suppose the continuation of experiments that paid off so well in "Tomorrow Never Knows". a lot of their more psychedelic stuff is sample-based, think of "I Am the Walrus" or "Blue Jay Way", and sort of prefiguring stuff that would later be used in techno/hip hop/darkwave/industrial. every time, Ringo's understated work is a huge factor in making all the indulgence go down well. this also goes for the crazy Take 25, a mutant cello attack that concludes with what sounds like a multi-kit drum solo (or is Ringo just overdubbed here?), a repeating treated piano/exotic stringed instrument one-chord drone, and what sounds like record scratching from miscellaneous percussion and noisemakers.

it's very cool to revisit this song and still have it be so surprising. the outtakes are all wonderful sources of Beatle experimental futurism. it is actually a great song, something easy to forget with such a dazzling production, and something revealed over the many spellbinding performances. even just played on a simple acoustic guitar it's a killer song.

side two of the LP has a good mix of more Beatles psych outtakes. "Not Guilty" is quite cool, a very George song, very goth, with a sort of sneaky Jack The Ripper harpsichord gallop a la The Kinks only spookier. "I'm Only Sleeping" is a nice alternate mix with extra backwards guitar, and a mono compressed sound. this is one of the best Beatles songs, one of their attempts at dreampop and slowcore, sort of predating/influencing shoegaze and lofi. next are "Hey Jude" outtakes, which i think are available on video, and have a lot of just goofing around and rehearsing, which is fun to hear. next is "Revolution", with a terrific live for tv recording, guitar feedback and fuzz game very strong. next pause for the absolutely devastating K Records/Smog desolation post-folk of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" played alone on a guitar in a big echoey room. featuring an extra lost verse this version is rightfully legendary among outtakes, the final line "I'm sitting here doing nothing but aging" betraying the song's ghostly seriousness, George giving a wink and strumming away a gypsy chord as he disappears like a magic trick. closing out the disc is "Christmas Time is Here Again", which is a throwaway fan disc of stoned Tommy James-style ecstatic psych dancepop.

I have that same boot! I think a lot of that material ended up on Anthology.

I don't get the point of retroactively applying genre tags

I could happily live without hearing a mellotron flute ever again. It seems to be one of those stock/cliche/dial-a-'60s sounds nowadays. Like, want that 'Strawberry Fields' feel? Just put a mellotron flute on it!

Mellotron choirs, though, still sound amazing to me.

In another Sgt. Pepper's related oddity, the official version of the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band LP made by EMI in South East Asia/Malaysia/Hong Kong was censored of three songs that apparently could have possibly been interpreted as being "drug related".

I found this on cassette for $4 recently. The binding just says "The Beatles" and nothing else - no album title. I figured it was an Asian equivalent of U.S. Rubber Soul including "I've Just Seen A Face" and "It's Only Love" so it seemed like an intriguing novelty. Removing the "drug" songs in favor of "I'm The Walrus" doesn't make much sense to me but at least it's an explanation for why this album exists.

Surprised they didn't interpret 'Fixing a Hole' as a smack reference like some did.

I don't get the point of retroactively applying genre tags

i don't get the point of limiting your perspective on music to the genre of the times? i mean i guess we can keep comparing them to the Rolling Stones and Beach Boys or whatever but i don't see how that's any more interesting and it's the same old rockist lense that has been done a million times before.

maybe it would be dumb to call SFF synthpop but they are using a synth and it is pop. so what if synthpop didn't exist as an official genre in the 60s, this kind of experimentation is what led to that genre in the first place. the Beatles in particular bc of their prolific and varied output are influential among many genres that would lay dormant for decades.

genres are specific to their time + place + cultural context imo, they aren't really about how something sounds or is composed

the end result of drawing comparisons in that way = a v lol rockist argument for influence

1. "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"
2. "With a Little Help from My Friends"
3. "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"
4. "Getting Better"
5. "Fixing a Hole"
6. "She's Leaving Home"
7. "Strawberry Fields Forever"

8. "Within You Without You"
9. "When I'm Sixty-Four"
10. "Penny Lane"
11. "Good Morning Good Morning"
12. "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)"
13. "A Day in the Life"

to OP, I actually like that running order!

looked for "nothing is real" boot on youtube, but couldn't find :(

I could happily live without hearing a mellotron flute ever again.
still love the mellotron flute

think that proposed running order kinda buries penny lane -- I'd probably put it at the start of side B

we got one of these in at work a couple weeks ago, i've had a lot of fun with it. obviously went for the flute setting first, but the choir settings sound wild with an acoustic

http://www.ehx.com/assets/png640h/mel9.png