Fripp/Eno Guitar fx question NOT frippertronics...

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so I had this board renamed because I was gonna have lots of questions as I was finishing up my little studio and getting to work then I got all busy with other stuff but here's a question.

How did Fripp get the guitar tone on the early Eno records? I'm not talking about frippertronics and the Fripp/Eno record, but the sustained melodic lead stuff. Is it just extreme compression? Any particular type? I haven't played much guitar through compressor so maybe I'm wrong and it's something else? If I was home I'd point to specific songs. It's like a single note that just sustains and isn't all distorted but has a slight buzz to it.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 9 December 2005 17:14 (nineteen years ago)

I thought a lot of the magic of the collaboration between those two was that Eno would process Fripp's guitar through the VCS3. So weird distorted sounds might be any combination of ring modulation, distorting the input on the synth, or making a kind of fuzz tone by modulating a vca with a square wave rather than typical guitar effects like fuzz pedals. I don't really know though, just guessing.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 9 December 2005 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

hmm. As mentioned elsewhere, I get some mileage processing my guitar through an arp 2600. The specific sound I'm talking about is something else, maybe in addition to those effects.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 9 December 2005 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

this might help? http://et.stok.co.uk/articles/1020-18.html

zappi (joni), Friday, 9 December 2005 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

unfortunately not really...unless the sustain is solely due to playing a certain guitar with distortion, which I doubt. It was helpfull in reminding me that his playing on Heroes is also indicative of the sound of which I speak.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 9 December 2005 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

I know exactly the sound you mean but unfortunately am totally useless at this kind of thing.

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 9 December 2005 19:33 (nineteen years ago)

les paul custom - tone control rolled all the way down - and a fuzz pedal (i think a foxxtone). gives you a compressed 'woman tone' with sustain for days, yet could still be called something of a 'jazz' tone.

plus he's a very talented guy, always was. listen to the recently put out cd of giles/giles/fripp demos. he tears shit up.

for my money Manzanera blows Fripp away as far as rock-action on the early Eno and Roxy albums though... very underrated guitarist.

bdmulvey, Friday, 9 December 2005 20:38 (nineteen years ago)

I don't even know that its Fripp I'm specifically talking about, but definately that tone on those Eno records no matter who is playing it.

Been meaning to check out more Manzanera solo, recently heard a track w/ Eno that was way cool.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 9 December 2005 20:48 (nineteen years ago)

The specific sound I'm talking about is something else, maybe in addition to those effects.

I guess I was thinking the more obvious filtery machine gun stuff on songs like Blank Frank. This: "It's like a single note that just sustains and isn't all distorted but has a slight buzz to it." makes me think of the song "Here Come the Warm Jets" which sounds to me like several overtracked guitars with a mild fuzz on them with each track being bandpass filtered a bit differently. So on their own each track might sound kind of small and weedy but added together it gives this big wide full sound. But maybe you're talking about something like the solo on Blank Frank which sounds like a typical rock guitar sound but with some extra special something added.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 9 December 2005 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, listening to the Blank Frank solo again with headphones you can clearly hear the normal guitar sound in the center and then two reverbed or delayed tracks panned left and right with some filter sweeping and that square-wave-modulated-vca sound going on occasionally.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 9 December 2005 21:46 (nineteen years ago)

Some absolutely killer guitar tones on early eno records. Fripp was a master of sustain, bdmulvey encapsulated that well up above.

I have a Juno 160. Is there a way to run a guitar through that and process it?

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Saturday, 10 December 2005 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

Probably not, but you can on some rolands. There was a popular mod for the Jupiter 8 or 6 or whatever that an Ilxor had (paging mr. weiner...) that ran a cable with a female 1/4 jack coming out of it and any thing you plugged into it ran through it's filter. I have an old Roland RS-09 string synth which has beautiful roland chorus, similar to what makes the juno classic but even more extreme, and it has an input to run stuff through the chorus, haven't tried it yet.

Machines like the Arp 2600 and VCS are of a totally different breed, older more flexible patchable synths. The trend has come back though, I know some recent synths allow processing of inputs. I've been intrigued by the Nord Modular/Micro Modular, where you could program a vocoder patch or any kind of patch using the audio input.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 10 December 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

The micro modular is a ton of fun and a you can pick them up used pretty cheaply. It's a good way to experiment with modular stuff if you don't want to deal with the expense or size of an analog modular. Even if you do have an analog modular the micro is great for trying out ideas or doing crazy things that go beyond the capabilities of your analog gear. I think they sound really nice too although some people find them to sound a little to clean and digital.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 10 December 2005 22:25 (nineteen years ago)

I've appropriated this sound by accident with a DI'd distorted guitar played with an E-Bow for what it's worth.

mzui (mzui), Sunday, 11 December 2005 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks Walter and Dan.

I've been trying to determine if I'd be happier processing my guitar through a bunch of Moogerfoogers or through a synth. Maybe I should look into to synth processing options.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Sunday, 11 December 2005 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

Well, the moogerfooger lowpass filter along with the control processor would make a small modular synth minus the oscillators (which you wouldn't really need for processing guitar anyway).

walter kranz (walterkranz), Sunday, 11 December 2005 18:12 (nineteen years ago)

from the Sound on Sound article, just found this by googling "fripp  guitar  bowie  heroes  tape  floor". (a subscription to Sound on Sound is insanely expensive, but every single issue's worth it)

"Everyone who's played the song with Bowie since then has had to use an E-bow to duplicate it, but Fripp had a technique in those days where he measured the distance between the guitar and the speaker where each note would feed back. For instance, an 'A' would feed back maybe at about four feet from the speaker, whereas a 'G' would feed back maybe three and a half feet from it. He had a strip that they would place on the floor, and when he was playing the note 'F' sharp he would stand on the strip's 'F' sharp point and 'F' sharp would feed back better. He really worked this out to a fine science, and we were playing this at a terrific level in the studio, too. It was very, very loud, and all the while he was playing these notes - that beautiful overhead line - Eno was turning the dials and creating a new envelope and just playing with the filter bank. We did three takes of that, and although one take would sound very patchy, three takes had all of these filter changes and feedback blending into that very smooth, haunting, overlaying melody which you hear."

http://www.bowiewonderworld.com/press/00/041001sosheroes.htm

milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 15 December 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

holy crap.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 15 December 2005 23:17 (nineteen years ago)

You could have just read this thread instead, dudes [scroll down to bold]:

Songs Wherein a Guitarist uses an E-Bow

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 December 2005 01:41 (nineteen years ago)


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