Question about J Mascis' setup

It sounds like you've either got insanely high output pickups or an extremely low-gain distortion pedal. Making the volume increase when any pedal with a big gain stage (compressor, dist, od, fuzz, etc.) is engaged is normal, so I don't think j is doing anything bizarre to get that to happen. I'd be more inclined to wonder what's up with your set up that you can't make it happen.

martin seconded. any drive pedal i've encountered offers a HUGE volume boost.

I'm using the MXR Distortion+. I wonder what the problem could be...

Is the Distortion+ a newer one or vintage? (No, I'm not about to pull out the whole "vintage" is better mantra, but there is a difference between the two.) Also, what kind of guitar are you using and what kind of pickups if they aren't stock?

A new MXR, with an Epiphone Les Paul guitar (original pickups)

I actually have the problem with my volume cutting with distortion too - I assumed that it was because my "clean" sound is already fairly distorted from the amp, so that was limiting the volume. Kind of like how if you have two distortion pedals in a chain, the second one will limit the volume of the first. But this could be total gibberish, and if there's a solution, I'd like to know what it is. I'm using one of the reissue Big Muffs but have had the same issue with a ProCo Rat. I know my guitar is louder than other guitars, like if I take Sarah's guitar and run it through my set-up, it's noticeably quieter, but I assumed that it was because mine is a semi-hollowbody and bassier. I have no idea what I'm doing.

If the guitar in question has really high output pickups, it will be louder than guitars with lower output pickups. Sometimes, if the output from the guitar is high enough, it can actually be louder than the loudest setting on a distortion pedal.

The Big Muff has an insane amount of gain, so that's kind of a mystery, N.

The Distortion+, on the other hand, is actually on the lower gain side as overdrive pedals go. (Don't get me started, but the D+ is an overdrive circuit, not a distortion.) I have used a vintage D+ with a high output humbucker guitar (a Squier Super-Sonic if anyone cares) and had the problem Lee is talking about, where the guitar is louder than the pedal even when the pedal is opened all the way up). But the Atomic Humbuckers (which are stock in the Super-Sonic) are up there among the loudest I've played that aren't active. I've no idea if the Epi Pauls are like that, but humbuckers are typically on the louder side compared to single coils. (There is a electronic/magnetic explanation for that which really boils down to what you'd expect: two coils are louder than one.)

I seem to recall Sarah playing a Mustang or some other single coil Fender, right Nick?

So, there are kinda two ways you can get around it: You can turn down the volume on the guitar (so it's got a lower output in general) or you can boost the distorted sound by sticking a boost pedal right after the distortion pedal and turning them both on at the same time (probably with some kind of effects loop unless you want to do some crazy dance trying to hit two pedals at once with your foot).

I realize that may have been as clear as mud because I've sort of conflated "gain" and "output volume" even though they aren't the same thing. The D+ has a decent amount of gain, but in my experience it doesn't have nearly the output volume of many other dist/od pedals. That's what I should have said.

the pickups on every epiphone i've played have been the weak spot by a long shot. its possible that the overdrive sound is enhancing the muddiness of those not so amazing pups. its true that when you kick in an od/dist pedal, you should get a boost in volume. but thats not going to be the case if your amp is already at capacity or distorted like crazy, on the off chance you're like me and jack up the gain on the amp all the way, the volume all the way, and then try and giv'r some more.

having seen two different shows of the dino reunion, i can speak in more specific terms about j's setup. he used three marshall heads (and like 5 cabs!) wired with pedals in a custom switching system. one big floorboard controlled a MESS of effects and amps. i know exactly what you mean by the tremendous difference in volume- it was almost unbearable at the chapel hill show! my guess is he has one Super Lead set up for the perfect rhythm tone, and another set up for the perfect lead tone, with or without fuzzes- mind you, the perfect lead tone on a vintage 100 watt marshall head is going to be hella loud.

Ahh, I think it could have been the fact that my amp was near it's full volume already. I've got a Marshall 80 watt amp, which isn't nearly loud enough for playing with a full band (we're mostly practicing at this point, still)...does Marshall make anything louder than 100 watts without buying a huge stack? I doubt the difference between an 80 and 100 watt amp is worth spending another 500 bucks.

so, is this a solid state amp? i think you'd find a good tube amp to be alot louder, watt-for-watt.

and for the record there has been very few guitar amps, EVER, that are rated at over a hundred watts. a hundred tube watts will be loud enough, to say the least.

I used to use a D+ through a Marshall combo and actually encountered a possibly similar experience. But the deal wasn't so much a lack of volume, as the sound becomming thinner. Depndng on what the other guita player--a Strat guy going thorugh a tube Peavey--was playing, my sound could utterly dissapear. even if I cranked it.

J uses a Bradshaw switching system for pedals only.

All of his pedals go to all of the amps, no amp switching at all. He sets his amps on half volume, leaving plenty of headroom. He uses a Marshall preamp for most of his rhythm sounds.

He has an old Big Muff with everything turned up all the way, but the Bradshaw system has a switch that cuts the volume of the Big Muff in half so he can use that for rhythm work as well. Then he gets the huge boost by using the Bradshaw to bypass the Marshall preamp and the half power switch, which lets the Big Muff go straight into the Marshalls at full volume.

Hope this helps.

FUCK those amps are loud!

thanks for the info!

Yeah they are.

Marshall also made the Major, a 200w super lead. That's what Ritchie Blackmore used, it's the white amp on the inside of Green Mind. J even says they're too loud.

Since you probably can't afford a Bradshaw here's some ideas. First of all, J's old Big Muff is the key to his sound, the old ones have a HUGE boost. But the main thing is the headroom on the amps. Having no master volume helps pedals really stand out, the preamp distortion tends to even things out a lot. So if you can get an amp without a master and with high wattage do so. If not set your master volume all the way up and use the preamp control as a volume. You'll get a clean sound but now you'll have more headroom.

Then use your distorion pedal for you rhythm sound. After the distortion use a clean boost or an EQ pedal with all controls all the way up. This way you're boosting your distorted sound.

If your distortion pedal still cuts your sound a little that can be a good thing, because it will give you even more room to boost because your amp is still loud. Just experiment with a setup like this. The main thing is to have the amp up loud and clean, think headroom. And nothing is better than a 1000W superlead.

I use a fuzz- overdrive/distortion- clean boost setup to have even more flexability. My pedals are (at the moment): guitar- Fulltone Soul Bender- TC Distortion booster (set up for an overdrive "dirty clean" sound)- Z Vex Super Hard On- amp. After the Z Vex I use time based effects like Univibe and Echo, but this is the main sound. I use the fuzz for distorted rhythm, the TC for cleaner distortion, and the Z vex can boost either one. The TC can actually provide a big clean boost as well.

If you want to find a cheap method buy a reissue Big Muff, they're nothing like the old ones but still pretty loud. Run your MXR first and then switch it off while switching on the Big Muff turned up all the way. This is actually more like J's approach. He never uses the straight clean sound of his amp, he always has a pedal on. You can turn on your MXR and use your guitar's volume control to clean it up when you want, then hit the Muff for the boost.

I hope this helps and I hope I didn't say too much or make it confuing. This very thing has been a long quest of mine. "Quest!"

How much does a "vintage" (let's say mid-70s) Bigmuff go for these days?