Your Relationship With Your Record Label

Friends of mine got a major screw by a major after everybody who liked the band left the company -- then found a lovely label that loved their music, and didn't pay them. Two lawsuits in three years. It's a balance, obviously -- although I think it's better to err on the side of professionality.

The bandmate pushing this is all "but they'll put a record out that we don't have to pay for!" and I just think "frankly, I'd rather pay to put it out and keep some modicum of control over it".

It's more on the level of... *every* time I have talked to the bloke who runs the label, I've ended up in some kind of argument about music with him. He claims to like my band, but he has no respect for any of the music that we are influenced by. Not even in a "oh, that music sucks" sort of way but that total little boy indie dude "OHMIGOD POP MUSIC IS EVIL AND SOUL SUCKING YOU ARE BEING MARKETED TO!!!!" sort of way.

Which I just don't want to have to deal with, in someone I'm going to have to have regular dealings with. I *like* pop music. I think what he refers to as "marketing" is an artform like any other. And I don't want to be trapped in an indie ghetto before we even start. (I mean, we have enough monetary constraints without aesthetic constraints enterting into it.)

Also, I kind of doubt the bandmate who is pushing it's motivations, but that's another story.

But then again, my experience is that all labels are shite, so I don't want to walk into a situation which I *know* to be shite in advance.

We are releasing our single (any day now!) on our own label, but distribution is still a problem. We're getting radio plays despite this though. It was looking good with Che**y R*d, but so far all we've signed with them is a ringtone deal.

But I don't feel like they have enough to offer us in terms of stuff they can do for us, to overcome my irritation at the attitudes.

xx-post!

"Singer-songwriter", it seems to me that you kinda want to do this yourself. There's no good reason not to.

I just re-read yr post about the guy's attitude - yes, I see what you mean. A hideous attitude, and SO not right for your band. On the other hand IF they can get you more/better exposure than you could have without them, it might still be worth doing a single with them as a stepping stone. You can reposition later if/when better opportunities come along. Lots of bands stick out a first single on a tiny/local/oddly suited label and move upwards and onwards without detrimental effects.

I mean, if I'm going to do a split single, it's going to be with a band I genuinely love and want to be associated with/help out. Not some random a label just paired us with.

It just seems to me to get dodgier and dodgier.

from merge & sub pop to the scrappy tape collective cranking out releases, this is the foundation from which they build their homes. labels/publicists/managers/etc *should* like the music they're behind, otherwise it becomes difficult to do their job correctly. no one wants to work a band they utterly despise, especially at the indie level where lots of personal money is being sunk into these projects.

Or do you see it purely as a business arrangement? Or do you expect them to understand or otherwise "get" other aspects of the band?

a good label will be able to sort out the personal from the professional aspects. i dont understand why indies cant get their act together and do both.

as for your situation, i dont think it sounds good for several reasons. first of all, they're just slapping you with another band for a split single. unless they gave you an elaborate presentation to explain why they're doing it, you should be able to pick who the other band is. this is a clear signal that your potential label is shitty at communication. avoid at all costs.

my other suggestion, and this goes for anyone in negotiations with labels: get a lawyer. if they throw a contract your way, tell him what YOU want as a band. i know lawyers can seem scary but theyre working for you. in the US there are many associations for arts-based lawyers, so do the research. more than likely, someone you know in your local music scene is a lawyer [personal theory: seems they like rock music a whole lot more than doctors.] if the contracts jive with your requests, go for it. if not, have him make those changes. talk with the label -- a good one will attempt to understand your perspective and reach a solution. if not, fuck 'em. you're better off putting out music on your own.

I would like to work with a label - just not *that* label. Sigh. It's even more compliated than it sounds, due to personal issues - and as soon as you start bringing those in, argh.

to put it in a dating context, imagine you got married to some chump out of exhaustion, convenience and because he was the only guy available. how sick would you feel when Mr Right hove into view after you were already committed?

Put out a record for free, suffer indie flakiness with a winning smile etc - but bear these frustrations with people who totally adore your music.

you're fighting with your prospective spouse on the second date - it doesn't look good from here.

It's really funny you say that, considering the label boss is the ex boyfriend of one of my bandmates.

Which adds a whole NOTHER layer of why I don't want to do it, but I'm trying to leave personal considerations out of this and just decide on aesthetic and business considerations.

the basic deal is we pay for recording, he pays for pressing and half of mastering. we get $4 per album sold for $10 at in-town shows, and $8 per album sold for $10 at out of town shows. seems fair.

Now I don't know if it's the label jumping the gun or my bandmate, but that irritates me.

One of my other paranoias is that this bloke is just frottaging us for our media contacts, and I'll probably get shouted at by bandmates/manager for even saying this in public, but this just fuels this. :-(

So maybe this thread should be killed. Argh.

I mean, I raised as many objections as I could, but our manager rang the label guy and he agreed to all of them.

I don't like the fact that we didn't get to pick the song, the flipside, the photographer/artwork (though we will be getting right of refusal on whichever photo of us they use), not to mention the fact that I feel quite strong-armed into it - but I suppose it's good that the record company are so keen.

It's just the bad feeling in my gut about it. Which is weird, because all my bandmates and manager are just OVER THE MOON about the whole thing.

Like, WTF?

And that's forever tempered my view of indier than thou label types. That they will penalise you for being "too successful" or for having dreams that are bigger than them.

But whatever. One single deal. We shall see. They promised us UK radio play which is, like the Holy Grail my last band were never able to crack.

Massive blow-up with the label again yesterday. To the point where our manager told both me and the label boss NOT to contact each other directly. :-(

This is just becoming a nightmare on every level. I'm so fucked off and need to vent. Label Boss is just failing to ask us or even notify us about the most basic of things. To the point where we're finding out stuff about our own band from his press releases BEFORE WE'VE CONSENTED TO ANYTHING. (Yes, AGAIN - as I see from up there.) He's nicked our own gig (that we booked, going over our heads to the promoter) for a "label showcase" and demoted us to the opening band - without any contact. He's persisted in using press shots we've specifically vetoed.

Any of these things, it's like... if he had just ASKED, we would have either consented or worked out a deal. But it's not even being ASKED that is really winding me up.

Esentially, he's behaving in every crap, stereotypical, don't-give-you-any-input way that everyone accuses Major Labels of doing, without even paying us so much as a mechanical.

I've actually drawn up a list of things that require written consent - covering everything from approval of artwork/photos, to "branding" (i.e. nicking) our gigs, press releases, bootlegging live videos on YouTube (yeah, it's one thing when it's a random fan doing it, but quite another when it's your record company - who do have the ability to contact you/obtain consent - doing it) and all kinds of stuff. If he doesn't agree to it, as a legally binding contract, then I'm pulling out of the record.

I didn't want to work with this company. I have not wanted to work with them from the beginning, and it's weird to read all of my trepidations up there on this thead.

Argh. Anyway. Just blowing off steam. I think our manager fears we're going to end up unsignable if I shoot my mouth off any more, but I'm just so frustrated that this guy is such an arse.

There are two approaches a) pull the record, pull the gig and start again. or b) your manager needs to meet with the guy, outline all your grievances and see if there is a way to move forward with him on your terms. Is your manager capable of doing this in a hard-headed but reasonable way?

But, whats in it for the band to work with him? What does he have have that you could use - distribution, press contacts etc etc If you choose route b) the discussion needs to be about 'this is what we're giving you' and 'this is what we're getting in return'. It sounds right now, as if he's trying to leverage you into promoting his label for him (the gig, specifically), so what do you get out of that?

Myself, I'd kick him into touch and finance a recd yourselves. The recd company look like losers from their website.

TBH, I really don't know why we went with him. I think it was because he was the first one who asked, and my bandmate was really pushing for it. (And I was confirmed on the "still has a clit-on for him" thing as well.) The reasons were

1) that we didn't have to pay for it. Next time I'll remortgage my house and put it out myself.

2) that he was promising us radio play. Which he may still deliver.

In terms of promotion and stuff, well, yeah, I have to admit that we have got a professional photo shoot out of it, at a grand total cost of £10 per band member. Though we still haven't actually HAD any of the photos that resulted from it.

He is TOTALLY trying to lever us into promoting his label for us. Another friend pointed out - why is the record company logo SO MUCH BIGGER than the band logos on the record? He's totally trying to build up his Brand. Fair enough, but not on our dime, as it were. (I think future gigs - including festivals - are going to be a nightmare of him trying to blag off us.)

Everyone else seems to be all "shut up, play along, we're getting a record out of it". And we're so deep into it that I'm being pressured not to pull out for convenience sake. But I guess we're going for option B.

I just really need to blow off steam about how uncomfortable I feel with this whole thing, because right now I feel trapped.

If someone pulled that gig stunt on me, particularly the demotion to support bit, which is, as Dr C says, unforgivable, in all seriousness, I'd smack the fucker in the mouth for it. That is so unbelievably out of order that I'm getting angry thinking about it even though it's happening to someone else!

The clincher, obv is the radio play. Can he deliver? Do you want to deal w/this, even if he can.

I hope _something_ works out well for you.

Also GET A FREAKING SOLICITOR YESTERDAY!!!!!!

Good luck.

Right now, things are coming close to total meltdown because we aren't even allowed to approve, let alone even choose the FONT used for our logo on the record sleeve.

WTF? The day that YOU form a band and WRITE AND RECORD A SONG, then you get to design your own logo. You don't get to impose yours on us.

Yes, it has got this bad. I just want to cry. As far as I'm concerned, I am disowning this record and anything more to do with it.

It really is down to a battle of wills at this point. This is a guy who thinks letting the band have any say whatsoever in their own artwork = "design by committee" = bad.

WTF? Is this our single, or is it just another exercise in narcissism whereby he gets to inflict his "taste" on his "audience"? As far as I'm concerned, this is no longer even our single, it's just us contributing another track to a compliation album that happens to be spread over several different discs.

And you know what? I'm going to burn a sampler CD for the ::Lorry Festival:: which includes this song, do the artwork myself, number them as collectors items and sell it for cheaper than his is. THAT will be our first single. Not this abomination.

One slight problem - did you say that they paid for the recording? Does that mean that they have permission to use the track anyway? But regardless, your sabotage plan sounds good.

Paid for the recording? BWAH HAH AH HAHAH HAHAH HAHAH!

They didn't pay for jack shit. Oh, except pressing the record itself. Which, if we had done something WACKY like, oh, give up drinking for a month and put the money in a kitty, we could easily have done ourselves. But noooooooo, not having to pay for the pressing was SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than anything else, like, oh artistic control, or anything.

Learning experience, learning experience. TISSP, I'm so jealous of how great your CD came out. We must have talk about where you got that done coz it's lovely and next time, I'd prefer to do it that way.

At this point, songwriter, the only way out is out, and I think you know that.

Do not fear for other record companies, Jubalique. I have worked with a few of them in the past, and NEVER have I dealt with such a simultaneously control freak and cackhanded approach. I have had some very positive experiences working with independent labels. This is just not one of them.

There IS no contract. It was a handshake deal. Hence why I have no recourse when I say things like "You PROMISED us that we would have approval on artwork!" - but by the same token, he has no recourse when I decide to put the same version of the same song on a sampler to be sold at gigs.

i enjoyed what i heard.

unfortunately right now there is not any room for new musical acts on the
---------- (and related labels) roster but i am definately interested in
hearing new Fügügüffü as it is created.

this is code for "come back with something a little more polished/relevant to our label" right?

eh.. they may truly like it but not feel it sufficiently "commercial" or may not like it to the extent that they would be prepared to put marketing effort into it

i knew our relationship with our 'label' was permanently damaged when they removed all mentions of our (really quite recent) album from their label website for no apparent reason.

― electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Thursday, 20 April 2006 19:28 (3 years ago)

in retrospect this is not a bad thing, the fewer people who heard that wretched album the better

tbh i think your stuff has some commercial appeal, cruts!
i think that it may be the latter of what jim says, or that they are just not financially in a position to bring in new acts.

yeah that's what I thought (what jim said) - though this wasn't like a big label or anything and I don't think it was a matter of it being too non-commercial, just non-marketable

Is it common for labels to respond at all if they're in no way interested?

I have never dealt with labels, obv

xxp - i don't know if it's even that - i'd take it literally - that they're not in a financial position to take on new acts/expand their roster

Whatever they mean, persist anyway.

ha ha ha, this thread. god, that was a nightmare.

I think it means, "well, not right now, but stay on our radar"

it looks like a pretty positive response imo. i wouldn't give up on them.

im finally at a point where i'm making fairly polished sounding songs (at least for bedroom recording) and have no idea what to do with them

what was the label being spoken about above by anon? i'd like to read how it all ended up and where anon is right now, in terms of record label

If you mean the one I think you do, Google "Brainlove"..