"Stage presence"

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I am in a rock band. We have been playing shows for a year and a half or so. Sometimes people see us and say that we sound good but that we need more "stage presence." I guess they mean we should move around more and be more exciting. But we worry about THINKING too much about what we are doing on stage, that it will come across as too fakey and thought-out.
So how do you approach "stage presence"? Can you develop it?

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

Maybe you should move around LESS.

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

Not really possible.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

Basically, we are a three-piece. I sometimes will shake my head or walk around on stage if I feel like it. The drummer obviously can't do much. Sarah doesn't really move around at all. I will talk to the audience sometimes between songs, but neither of the other band members ever talk. This is a problem if I break a string, because there will be an extended silence while I am changing it.
I don't really worry about it, but someone said something to Sarah the other day and she got all freaked out about how she needs to work on being more "exciting." I said she didn't really need to change, but if she wanted to, one thing she could do is think about us interacting more with each other on stage as a band, because I like it when other bands do that and it seems pretty low-pressure.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:36 (twenty years ago)

Sarah and I both sing, but we're also playing guitar or bass, so we can't really like jump into the audience and run around or anything.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

I've had this issue with a couple of my band members -- if I may say so, I think I have a fair amount of stage presence for a drummer, but our lead singer/guitarist doesn't always have enough.

I think the main two things are confidence and connection with the audience. Everything else should flow naturally from those two things -- whether it be coordinated stage moves or just intensity in your face.

You can improve it, I think. Some of it just comes with experience. Some of it is knowing your parts so well that you don't have to think over-hard about playing them right and you can have fun. Some of it is just remembering that you're there to play for an audience of people, not just yourself, and that the audience wants to have fun and watch you have fun (or be really emotional and serious, depending on the music).

But no, I don't think it's a good idea to force too much jumping around or movement if it doesn't feel natural. You might find that exercise helps you have more energy on stage.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

I think you can develop or learn stage presence. I think mostly it's about looking comfortable or "natural" onstage (ha ha) or more looking confident onstage.

I don't know; I used to think it was just about looking attractive or being charismatic, but then again, I've known quite a few people who were amazing when you met them, but it just didn't translate onstage.

I've been told that I have "stage presence" which is an odd compliment - someone actually said that after our last gig, which I thought, in terms of performance and technical problems was one of the worst one's I've ever done, and was having a miserable time onstage, someone said that I looked very "comfortable" and "natural" onstage which was the last thing I was feeling, but I guess I've learned to fake it.

Then again, I really *like* being onstage. It feels like a relief to go on and get it over with after the horror of standing around waiting with pre-gig jitters. So I'm just so happy to be onstage that it shows. It's helps that it's one of the few places where it's absolutely OK to be as attention seeking as you like.

I think some of the keys are - smile. Or not so much even smile, but have an expression on your face that shows "I'm having a better time than you are!" Whatever you do, try not to look self conscious. Just act like being onstage is the most natural thing in the world. It doesn't matter if you're standing stock still, so long as you don't look like you're standing still out of fear. If you dance or move, do it like you're feeling it, not like you're doing a routine that you've learned (even if it is a routine).

So I guess the art of "stage presence" is looking like you're Feelin' It!!! even when you're not feeling it.

x-post

Paranoid Spice (kate), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

It's specifically *not* about jumping and running about if that's not what you're feeling. You can just *tell* when someone's "Been To Rock School."

I've seen Kim Deal onstage, and she's someone who can just kind of *stand there* onstage, and yet still, you can't take your eyes off her because she's smirking in that way that you know she was born to do this.

I think the number one rule is, if you're having a good time, the audience will have a good time. (Though how you express that good time is up to you.)

I mean, it's pretty crucial to remember that the audience is there.

Paranoid Spice (kate), Monday, 3 October 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Ha. I always use Kim Deal as my defense against the need for stage presence. Someone said yesterday something we've heard from lots of other people - that we need some sort of look. I said, b-but look at the Pixies! They've always worn whatever they want and they're awesome! She said, yeah, but they have great songs.

Kittens Licking Cakes (coco), Monday, 3 October 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

Actually, you do kind of need A Look. You do need to all look like you're in the same band. And even those bands who deliberately don't have A Look, who make a big deal of "we go onstage in our street clothes" - well, that's A Look.

In my band, it's funny because we try to coordinate our outfits beforehand, and we never have any luck. But then, we turn up in our street clothes, and we're dressed pretty much the same anyway.

Presentation is important. You don't have to wear uniforms, or matching outfits or any of that crap. But it is important to look like you are A Band, not some random conglomeration of people that just shuffled onstage together.

Paranoid Spice (kate), Monday, 3 October 2005 14:14 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, you have to act a little bit differently on stage than you do in real life, you have to project something, whatever it is. The worst thing, although I'm sure that Nick and Sarah don't do this, is people who giggle or act silly like they've never seen a mic before.

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 3 October 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

Maybe jaymc can help you, what with his acting and improv training.

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 3 October 2005 14:25 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I think it's quite important to act like you know what you're doing. Even if you don't, still, act like you do.

Paranoid Spice (kate), Monday, 3 October 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

We tried to think of bands with good LOOKS that have both male and female members.

I couldn't pull off a Jenny from Rilo Kiley cutesy look. I think I need to go for something a little more sexy maybe? We all like the way Blonde Redhead looks on stage, with their fancy Italian suits and Kazu's well put together outfits. I just wouldn't want us to come off looking like we're ripping off the Hives or something.

Kittens Licking Cakes (coco), Monday, 3 October 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

Best band "look with male and female members"?

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/amg/music/bio/505473_velvetunderground_200x200.jpg

However, really, I do think that a band's "look" should grow out of/be an extension of their aesthetic, rather than something imposed on or forced.

The Lollies were a very bubblegum, power pop guitar band, which we expressed through bright, often primary (or dayglo pink and purple) colours, lots of stripes and bold prints for a cartoony look. Shimuras are more subtle, more eccentric, thrown together from samples, hence the "ballgowns and wellies" ecclectic look.

It's not even so much, what do you want to look like, but what do you want to get across? If the music is sophisticated, suits would be a good look, if it's more earthy, perhaps jeans and plain shirts with coordinated accessories?

Paranoid Spice (kate), Monday, 3 October 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

Nothing wrong with uniforms!

http://static.flickr.com/18/24023703_e0464de968.jpg?v=0

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 3 October 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

'Zat you in the wifebeater, Jordan C?

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 3 October 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

Nope, I'm the other drummer:

http://www.madolan.com/engagement/goodandevil.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/24/49079866_6b2d0f5a47.jpg?v=0

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 3 October 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

That certainly does look a lot more like you. Are you even visible in the first photo?

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 3 October 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

Nope, I'm there but hidden in back (as is usually the case).

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 3 October 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

Go for the glam. The stage is your altar; people are coming to worship at it.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 3 October 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

Nick, do you guys ever play your guitars with back pressed against back, whilst sticking your tongues out as far as they can go?

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 3 October 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Choreographed spin moves are the answer, for real.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 3 October 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

The problem with the back-to-back move is that Sarah's like three inches taller than me. So it would probably look more "silly" than "rockin'."

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 3 October 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

That's shortsighted thinking, Nick. What you've gotta do is glam it up even further and step into some PLATFORM SHOES!

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 3 October 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

When I saw Smog in Philly recently, Callahan didn't move a great deal, but he was totally mezmerizing - it was in his facial expression, the way he stood like he owned the stage, the occasional funny leg twitch. It's really not different than being an actor - you can say a lot with a lot or you can say a lot with a little, but you have to be confident, believe what you're doing, and sell it to the audience. You can't just get up there and play, even if that's the "style" you're going for. It's like the difference between people who look like they dress cool without trying (they usually do actually try), and people who just look like they don't try.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 3 October 2005 23:51 (twenty years ago)

In other words, wipe that silly grin off your face, Nick.

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 03:20 (twenty years ago)

The drummer obviously can't do much.

Sure he can. Haven't you ever seen a band where the drummer was exciting to watch?

I will talk to the audience sometimes between songs, but neither of the other band members ever talk. This is a problem if I break a string, because there will be an extended silence while I am changing it.

This is a situation where you just need a back-up plan in place, like asking Sarah to have a story ready to tell or a list of gigs to announce at least.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

Jonathan Richman is the most at-ease performer I've ever seen on stage. And he doesn't layer it on all that thick -- he's just very friendly and has good anecdotes to tell. (Not to mention great narratives in the songs...)

Confounded (Confounded), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 13:43 (twenty years ago)

This is one of those questions which is difficult to answer without actually seeing you onstage. But stage presence is totally not the same as moving around a lot. Although you can run around a lot and have presence, but it often comes off as a desparate ploy.

Have you considered skin-tight lycra?

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, there are a million bands here in Jersey that have learned to jump and headbang to their music but look like idiots doing it because they have no presence, no flair, no confidence.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

I've been told by one of the dudes in my band that I need to move around more and do stuff? Unfortunately, every bass player in the history of the world that I love stands stock still smoking fags and looking cool. I think a more important thing for me to focus on is looking badass rather than "cute" (someone asked me if I was conscious that I "cuddled the bass"!!!!). HOW TO??

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

I think the key is to just look like you are having a better time than anyone in the audience. That "I'd rather be painting my toenails" sneer of disdain of Joel BJM is a good starting point.

Paranoid Spice (kate), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

xpost Yeah, there's plenty of precedent for the bass player being the more low-key band member. But you should still own your instrument and own your place on the stage. It's largely an internal thing -- standing your ground and being confident instead of shrinking into yourself and pretending you're in your bedroom.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

Oh, Joel is my hero.

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

Do you think a wide stance is important?

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

I think the most important thing is to think to yourself, over and over again, "Yeah! I'm playing the motherfucking BASS up here!"

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

No, but seriously, some musicians look good on stage because of sheer bravado, some look cool because they look pissed or annoyed, some look cool because they look sly, it depends on your personality. But just "being yourself" doesn't quite get you there. It's like "be yourself, but a more awesome version of yourself."

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

I should use Peter Hook as more of a role model, maybe. I already wear my bass as low as he.

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, it's more like "be an exaggerated, larger than life, cartoon version of yourself".

Paranoid Spice (kate), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Hm.

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Yosemite Sam?

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

people sometimes say the same thing about the fake accents, n/a! there really needs to be a FF's/FA's showcase...

i think the thing for us is that we're all always concentrating fairly hard. its not that songs are so complicated, and we also pay lots of attention to one another, but i can definitely believe that some people would want more panache, etc. i figure it becomes easier the longer you play together, and the more comfortable you become onstage.

petesmith (plsmith), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

I think I need to play more at home stanfing up and get more comfortable with that. For some reason when I'm playing I feel like I can't move my feet, like they are bolted to the floor. This can't be good. Anyone else ever feel like this?

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:28 (twenty years ago)

It's like "be yourself, but a more awesome version of yourself."
Exactly. Just like if you were on a date.

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

So is that what I've been doing wrong all these years?

(And why I have better luck with groupies than dates?)

Paranoid Spice (kate), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

We get bigger whoops and hollers when I jump around. I'm worried that this is going to make me do it as an act to play to the audience, rather than when I feel like it.

Ben Dot (1977), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

The reason you need to be a bigger version of yourself is that the audience isn't as close to you as they would be if you were chatting with them at a party, and so they can't see your normal-sized coolness.

Of course when this translates back to a close-up version, such as in a music video, then it looks poseur and ridiculous. So don't forget how to be normal-sized cool, in case you make a video or somesuch.

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 6 October 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, film versus stage acting and such.

I'm worried that this is going to make me do it as an act to play to the audience, rather than when I feel like it.

This is a fine line to walk -- it's still performing and performing by nature involves doing things you don't necessarily feel like doing every time.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 6 October 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)


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