Playing your friend's gigs - what do you expect in return?

However, with those friendship/joining the band scenarios, it's slightly more complicated.

Does the band leader pay for rehearsal space? How about recording? Transport, etc?

Because, generally, I've found, if you have actually "joined the band" so to speak, you can only really ask to have a share of *net* profits. (Though it is perfectly fair to ask for gas money if you are providing your own transport - this is part of operational costs, and nothing to do with profit.)

Well, we're a quartet, and so I usually give my drummer around 1/4 of the money. Sometimes a little less, though, because I write the songs and book the shows and do most of the promotion, and he just plays the drums. Masonicboom's point is a good one though; if there are expenses that you're not contributing to, you have to take that into account.

No, and I pay myself extra if I drink more before the show.

I mean, my band hardly makes any money, so it's rarely an issue - if I offer my bassist $10 he tells me to keep it. The nights that we do get something significant, I split it evenly.

Anyway, Chrisasuistry OTM.

This is *kinda* different when you're a guitarist and/or singer, and when you're a drummer or bass player, just due to the laws of supply and demand.

There are way more people who *need* rhythm sections than there are rhythm sections to go round.

Money may not be a big motivator for some, but the idea that you have to *spend* money to support someone else (which you do, if you're dragging a drum kit or a bass cab across town) is kind of a dis-motivator.

Money to cover transport costs is absolutely, 100% within the remit of Hurting's up front monetary demands.

I'm a songwriter, not an editor.

There's nothing unreasonable about asking for toll money.

Yes, I do think saying this is humourous...

So what about when you record with a friend and then you suddenly start to think he might make some money on the recording eventually and he has never agreed to give you anything?

Was it a one-time session player type deal, or are you currently in this guy's band? If the former, I wouldn't expect to get anything if it was never agreed upon. But I'm coming from the other side of that one.

I think you're probably out of luck, unless it's big money and he's a really nice dude.

It wasn't a one-time thing - I play with him regularly. I'm currently *in his band* but he writes all the songs and he's the only one on the record contract.

I realize I probably should have sorted this out before agreeing to record, and I may no longer have a chance of getting. What would have been a standard arrangement if I had actually had the proper forethought to do something?

Wait, did you get paid for the session at the time it was recorded?

w/ a little further research, you probably have no recourse if you were paid for the session (although technically that should have been contractually stated, but as I recall u r lawyer, so you know how that goes.) Things don't get much better if you were unpaid (unless you recorded in the UK or Australia, which still have musicians unions with some teeth, unlike the AFM (American Federation of Musicians afm.org), which still might be worth contacting.

The best thing to do is to directly hit the guy up for some cash, and try to get some sort of tiny percentage of revenue contracted out if he can't do it at the moment. (This would require more research about the legality of that, and he also would be opening a can of worms for future claims from other players but shhhhhh.)

If that doesn't work, you still have the leverage of refusing to play live with him until he pays up.

I'll try to check w/some entertainment law pals the next time I see them, but it could be one of those oops situations that you "learn from" ;_;

too tired to close parentheses or be completely coherent, but you get the idea.

Didn't get paid for the session.

Yeah ultimately this is a case of me being too slow-at-the-draw and afraid of confrontation.

OTOH, I could probably just still use the leverage I have (assuming he wants me to keep playing his shows) and see if he'll do it to keep me in the band. We're probably not talking megabucks, so in part it's just about not wanting to feel used.

u r lawyer, hurting? when did u shot bar?

Huh? I'm only just applying to law schools now.

Oh yeah. I was just referring to the part where John said
but as I recall u r lawyer, so you know how that goes

You don't have to be confrontational just to ask whether you deserve points. Decide going in how much of an asshole you want to be, and be up to but not more than that much, and decide beforehand whether a bad result == you quit. The easiest tactic is just to ask and accept whatever answer you get, but you really have to be prepared to live with the answer. You might be surprised how many people are not total dicks when it comes to this kinda thing.

Don't sue, though. From that comes only pain.

I guess what I'm saying with that last bit is that you should figure out how to handle this as reasonable human beings, not guys who poke red-hot lawyers at each other.

Yeah, that's my feeling too.

I'm also wondering whether I'm better off getting the other band members on the same page with me first (I don't THINK any of them got paid either, although now I'm wondering), or if I should just advocate for myself.

Your position would certainly be stronger as N-against-1 than 1-against-1. Not that "class-action lawsuit" is relevant here, but a similar notion applies.

I've been recording an album the past few months: in fact I'm ILXing from the studio right now while our engineer works on some of the basics. I wrote and sang all the songs, but we split the recording costs (about $5K) 4 ways. Any money that we make on the record I plan to split equally among us, and honestly, I never even thought of doing it any other way. Now, if I had paid for the recording out of my own pocket, I'd view the situation differently: I'd still share any profits, but only after recouping my initial outlay, and I might think it fair to give 50% of anything after that to me and the other 50% they could split.

Come to think of it, if I were gonna pay for the whole thing up-front, I'd probably play all the instruments myself, making the issue kinda moot. That's not how a band should work, however, at least as far as I'm concerned.

sorry hurting, thought you were already in law school (my jaymc is broken).

I agree w/libcrypt's approach, but srsly, contract the agreement, even if it's an incredibly simple agreement. You shouldn't need a lawyer to do that, there are standard forms out there. I'll find one if I can.

If a verbal agreement would be sufficient due to your personal relationship with this dude (which it kind of never is, but you know what I'm saying), the situation wouldn't have gotten to the point where he doesn't address any compensation and you feel potentially cheated.

my jaymc is broken
kick out the jaymc's, mofos!

by the jaymc5

I've been recording an album the past few months: in fact I'm ILXing from the studio right now while our engineer works on some of the basics. I wrote and sang all the songs, but we split the recording costs (about $5K) 4 ways. Any money that we make on the record I plan to split equally among us, and honestly, I never even thought of doing it any other way.

Yeah, this is the way I've generally done things, but the current situation is different - it's one guy's project, he's the one with the record deal, he writes all the songs, determines the general direction, etc.

I'm not so sure that the situation is materially different, but either way, if I were in his shoes, I would feel a personal obligation to cut my guys a few points, at the very least.

Did you ever get money out of this fool?

I called my drummer from the venue about 20 minutes before stage time for our gig tonight, and he told me that he wasn't coming and that he quit the band. And I always gave him an equal cut of the money. So I don't know what the moral of that story is.
― Steve Go1dberg (Steve Schneeberg), Friday, 13 October 2006 05:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

Wow I never realized this night was memorialized in an ILX comment, still a very vivid memory