Dance music producing/recording problems

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This question has probably been asked in some form before, but I don't know how to best search for it and I'm getting pretty frustrated.

I DJ a lot and want to start making my own electro/house/punk music, in the vein of Daft Punk, Vitalic, Soulwax, Goose, lcd soundsystem, In Flagranti, The Presets, Gomma, etc.

Over the years I have collected a few tools for making and recording music, and while I have working knowledge of everything and years of music lessons under my belt, I really don't know how I should go about producing and recording.

I have:

MacBook Pro with Ableton Live, Reason, Garageband, Reaktor...
M-Audio Fast Track USB (for recording in/out)
microKorg with midi cables
vox guitar practice amp, large crate guitar amp
a bunch of other random little things

I start making myself dizzy with what to do and trying to think of what my favorite musicians might do. Should I record synths live? Do I need a bunch of new hardware like drum machines and stuff? Should I do everything with midi? Is it cheating to rely on Reason and Ableton? Which software should I use to record, and which should I use to actually create sounds? I really just need some direction or something. I'm ready to invest the time to learn more about all of these things. Any help appreciated.

Also this my first time posting on I Make Music, so sorry if I just made a hundred asinine mistakes in my post.

sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Monday, 5 February 2007 05:59 (eighteen years ago)

You have all the gear you need, so that shouldn't be a concern. You can make all the drum sounds with the Korg/Reaktor, and sequence to your liking in Ableton. Then lay down some synth tracks, which you can do as MIDI first, then run it back in as audio. If you'd like, you can play some live stuff over the top, then add effects. Done.

naus de lekkerste..! (Robert T), Monday, 5 February 2007 06:25 (eighteen years ago)

Drum sounds with the Korg? Um I need to go dig out that manual again...

Did you mean doing synths with MIDI just to get the feel for it, and then recording live for the final version? Any recommendations on which program to use for synth sounds?

sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Monday, 5 February 2007 06:37 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry, I thought the Fast Track had MIDI in/out. I was going to say to record the synth as MIDI data into the computer, then play the data out of the computer back into the synth, which is recorded as audio on a new track in Ableton.

naus de lekkerste..! (Robert T), Monday, 5 February 2007 06:41 (eighteen years ago)

But then again, you can just play a few loops live into Ableton, then arrange them as you like.

And as for drum sounds from the Korg, it's entirely doable. Unless you want super-real drum sounds, then you might want to go with store-bought samples.

First things first, however: if you want to make decent dance music, learning how to program your synthesizer should come first.

naus de lekkerste..! (Robert T), Monday, 5 February 2007 06:45 (eighteen years ago)

Our band isn't very well-versed in dance music, despite our many attempts--but having watched and worked with some pretty good dance music producers, you'd be amazed at how simple the tools are and how a good dance track doesn't take a gazillion production tricks (unless you're Basement Jaxx or something.) It's def not cheating to use Reason, Live, Cubase, or Reaktor. And while you may be a stud/ette for using Max/MSP, there's nothing that says you can't make great trax with Fruityloops either.


Here's what I'd do to get started:

1.) Lay down a drum track--you can do this two ways. Start with a Redrum in Reason (load a drum set) and plot down some notes in the virtual drum machine, start with Rexx in Reason (load a drum set) and play some beats live, or start with a loop in Ableton. You can either drop in your fav mp3 into Ableton or cobble one together.

2.) Lay down a bassline. Start with a preset sound if you like, either in Reason or in Live or Garageband, and just play one. Try to do like a 4 bar loop or whatever.

3.) Listen to your creation and smile. And start cutting and pasting and modifying it.

4.) Add some new synths on top if you want--you can start with the preset sounds and modify them, or you can drop in some samples too. Both Reason and Live have lots of samples built-in or you can find them on the Interweb.

5.) Start messing with effects and layering different synths.

We used to use Reason a lot with Reaktor because Reason is really low processing requirements and you can really abuse effects and synths in terms of piling them on. Now we use Ableton Live--it's fun to chop sounds in Ableton and reverse things and so forth, but you don't have to start that way. But either way, you'll have a great time!

Jubalique (Jubalique), Monday, 5 February 2007 18:34 (eighteen years ago)

Oops--I would recommend staying with one piece of software first. Try to stay with Reason/Live/Garageband through the entire track if you can when you start.

Jubalique (Jubalique), Monday, 5 February 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

Playing synths live? Sure - then quantize to polish them. Ableton is your most powerful tool right now, become totally familiar with this. Reason doesn't support VSTs. Using ReWire - you can route audio from Reason in to Live and tweak to perfection.

And considering your influences, you MUST learn side chain compression. http://youtube.com/watch?v=O5eep4inXYs

Valoss (valoss), Monday, 5 February 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

thanks for all the tips so far

to anyone - do you recommend using any of the built in synths/instruments in live? or should i stick to reason and my own synth for that?

sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Monday, 5 February 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

two other things:

-I neglected to mention that I own a Mexican Fender Strat, hence the guitar amps... I may experiment with putting it through my vocoder

-When recording live synth, does it need to be fed through an amp first, or should it be ok on it's own? I have mixed experiences either way

sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Monday, 5 February 2007 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

My advice: just try writing some whole tunes in Reason, once you've got that down you'll have more of an idea of what you want to get out of the other gear you've got.

Andrew (enneff), Monday, 5 February 2007 22:22 (eighteen years ago)

I'd also recommend using Reason as a starting point. It's the most intuitive and powerful when it comes to building stuff from the ground up: you can very quickly jump in to programming some drum loops, and then gradually start building up from there, module by module and loop by loop. Personally, if I sit down in front of some tracking software and try to make a song, I'm completely lost. If I just pull up the Reason Redrum and start building up a rhythm, everything flows along nicely.

HOWEVER: Since you have Ableton, one good way to do this is to run Reason through Ableton, with rewire. This way you can basically sit there and work in Reason, but output each line to different tracks in Ableton -- meaning you can put VST effects on them, or record bits onto the track to mess with later, etc. (That's basically the way I work these days -- programming everything in Reason, and then pushing the outputs into Ableton for processing and mixing.)

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 5 February 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

the first thing you need to do is sit down with Ableton and the manual and LEARN IT. Read a book into the built-in microphone on your macbook and then use Warp Markers to turn it into a rap. Use AudioHijack to snag a break from some track you have on iTunes, chop that break into pieces with Audacity, use the bits to build an Impulse drumkit, or a sample set for Reason, whichever. Back your rap with that. Make a synth bassline with Reason or Live. Snag some more samples from wherever you like, warp them, put them into Simpler, whatever. Turn the whole mess into a two minute arrangement, do not quit plugging away at it until you are FINISHED. Give yourself a deadline if you want but FINISH the exercise.

Reason and Ableton are great tools for creating forty billion 32-bar loops and sample scraps waiting for people to learn how to put them together into a song or at least a DJ tool. Getting over that hump and making a whole project from start to finish is the hardest thing, I think.

If you don't have a riff in mind already then you might as well start with programming a backbeat at 120. Building blocks.

TOMBO7 (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

Reason and Ableton are great tools for creating forty billion 32-bar loops

Hahaha. See: my hard drive.

Andrew (enneff), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 03:58 (eighteen years ago)

thanks a lot for the tips... now i just need to find time to get into this shit! hopefully this weekend

sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 06:44 (eighteen years ago)

Good luck and have fun! As everyone kinda said, it's getting started that's hard--and once you get over that initial hurdle, it's super easy!

In case it helps, I'll post a song in the "What do we sound like" that we made all in Live with a cheap USB "internet chat" mic, an acoustic guitar, a Peavey bass, and a little 5 watt Magnatone amp. We then chopped it up in Live, added a few beats from some samples we collected, and played with some of Live's el-cheapo sounds.

It's not great, but it sounds like you have a similar set of equipment, and you can hear what some others do with it.

Jubalique (Jubalique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)


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