Vintage Ampeg Gemini I sudden rustling turns to feedback

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I think someone once said the pots might be dirty?

I can play it for a while very quietly and then this background rustling will start which kind of sounds like static. If I stop playing, hold the guitar far away and pray, it will often die down. If I don't, it will suddenly click in to a louder pitch and eventually it will squeak like hell.

This is a Gemini I G-12, which I believe was made by Ampeg since I've seen the exact same style with Ampeg Gemini II in the used section of Guitar World. The Ampeg tag probably came off or else this was some earlier prototype.

It's an odd amp. It has 2 sides: Guitar 1 and Guitar 2. Both sides have two inputs for a total of four.

On the left side:

tremelo speed knob
*intensity knob
volume 1 knob
*treble 1 knob
bass 1 knob
input
input

-- center = red light when powered on ---

On the right side:

Volume 2 knob
*Treble 2 knob
Bass 2 knob
Echo CH 1
input
input

far right: FUSE (twist to pop out)

Couple weird things that stand out are the *asterisks. Why are the trebles and intensity marked with a star? Is this how they controlled distortion back then?

Then, there's the Echo CH 1 on the Guitar 2 side of the amp.

Then, there's the 4 inputs.

There is a footswitch with about a 3' cord that controls tremelo and echo.

This used to work pretty well at one time, but would always eventually start squeaking and scare me to the point where I thought it would blow up or electrocute me or something. So, I just stopped trying to use it. Recently, I tried again with the volume very, very low and the static/feedback problem seems worse than ever. I can barely hear it, but that rustling starts up regardless of how loud it is.

It sounds like it could be something springy related to ancient reverb/tremelo, but I'm no expert.

Could it be "dirty pots"? How do you clean dirty pots?

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 01:50 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry for the dupe post but the other thread got half the title cut off and made no sense.

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 01:52 (nineteen years ago)

This is it (basically) . I just realized that each side has a guitar input and an accordian input, but some jackass scratched off "accordian" on both sides obviously intentionally.

http://www.ggjaguar.com/gem1.jpg

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 02:06 (nineteen years ago)

If it is feeding back at will, I'd guess it is more of a tube going bad than a pot.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 02:33 (nineteen years ago)

Almost certainly a microphonic tube. If you can access the tubes through the back, do this:

1) Turn on the amp, let it warm up, turn the volume up about 1/4 of the way on both channels
2) Take a NON-METAL object (my choice - bic pen) and tap each tube individually. One of them will make a signifigantly louder ping noise than the others. Replace this tube, and you are probably good to go. If it's a tube in the power amp rather than preamp section, you need to replace the pair of them.

If this doesn't work, bring it somewhere to have the tubes tested.

John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 05:18 (nineteen years ago)

Thank you very much. These tubes are supposedly hard to replace.

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

Is it likely that the tube would look dimmer (kind of burnt out) than the other ones?

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

Not neccessarily. If anything, it might have sort of a blue tint...what tubes are in the amp anyway?

John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

I'll let you know when I get home... I know two of them are those Sovtek 12AX7-somethings because I think I replaced those ones about 10 years ago. It worked alright and then I left it on my mom's porch for a long time. It did burst out into feedback back then, but usually after I worked it up for a while, not just randomly for no reason as it does now. I think there is a total of 5 tubes.

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

HOW DO I FIX DIRTY POTS?

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

Easy. Go to an electronics store and ask for tuner cleaner/electronics cleaner (explain what you're doing with it, so they don't sell you compressed air or some such bullshit). If you can, get to the back of the pot. There should be a notch in it. Insert nozzle straw, spray, and rotate the pot back and forth until you get bored. Repeat.

If you don't have a notch, spray the cleaner into the little gap by the contact points and do the same rotate thingy. If you can't get to the back of the pot at all, take the knob off and spray right where the center shaft meets the pot and do the same thing.

If this doesn't work, abandon all hope and replace the offending pot.

John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 20:45 (nineteen years ago)

I don't even know what a pot is.

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 22:47 (nineteen years ago)

pot is short for potentiometer, which is a variable resistor. it's what's behind those knobs that you turn.

AaronK (AaronK), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:00 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.positiveoffset.com/1MegPot.jpg

theres the pot, theres the knob :)

AaronK (AaronK), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:01 (nineteen years ago)

Wow, if one of THOSE things is dirty, it can make noise? That's crazy! It's not likely is it? I'm sure they're all dirty. I thought a pot was where the tubes plugged in or something.

There's 7 tubes. I have no fucking clue what they are. They don't seem to match all that well, though. There's two big ones, then three smaller ones, a slightly bigger one and a small one. They're all dim orange. No blue cast.

There is also one dial/switch on the back, but I have no idea what it does. It's not an on/off switch, it has a smooth turn like a volume knob or something. But since there are two of those on the front, I doubt it's a volume knob.

Experiment: turn on with nothing plugged in, all knobs turned down and wait for static...
I just turned on the amp with nothing plugged in and let it just sit there... it sat there for a while and then there's a little click (sounds similar to when you drop a needle on a record)... then another click... and finally static. And eventually that static became loud and I turned it off.

As soon as I turn it off, if I turn it back on, there is NO STATIC. No matter how loudly it was getting before. The static comes after electricity goes through it for a few seconds.

I turned that knob on the back all the way opposite where it was before and, while it is still popping and crackling occasionally, so far it has not erupted into persistent static and I have not had to shut it off yet.

Any idea what this mystery knob might be?

Also, the fuse on the front that pops out—how do I know if that fuse is still good? Otherwise the amp would be dead?

I'm afraid to tap these tubes to test for "ping" as someone suggestd for fear they will burst and I will be electrified and/or burned.

Going on 10 minutes... still crackling like an old record, but no static eruptions yet.

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

Aha! I just found this page which says:

Powering and controlling the amp are seven tubes as follows:

two 7591,
one 6CO7,
three 12AX7,
one 7199.

The reverb tank location is not like Fender's later designs with the unit at the bottom of the cabinet. This reverb tank is located on the underside of a panel below the ends of the amp's tubes. A switch-able foot-pedal for Trem and Echo is standard equipment and held in place inside of the amp cabinet by a rectangular metal rod.

Is it possible that the wrong tubes are in here or in the wrong order but the thing still works? I remember when I brought it to the shop the guy wasn't really sure if he had anything that would work. I have no idea if he just stuck tubes in randomly or what. But, I can pull them out and compare to what's listed above, right? It should be written on the side of the tube, I'm guessing.

Any tips on how to pull out the tubes? Do I just yank it down while holding onto the glass? Or do I have to pull it from the base or something?

The Vintage Tuber, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

WAIT UNTIL THEY COOL DOWN, FOR GODS SAKE!

Sorry to shout, but you will blister the bejesus out of your hand if you don't give them time to cool down.

Don't be worried about tapping the tubes. I'm mean and nasty, but not mean and nasty enough to lead you into peril. Also, if you are going to pull out the tubes, number them first to avoid putting them back in in the wrong order...

Seriously, try tapping the tubes. Don't be frightened. It'll all be OK.

John Justen (johnjusten), Thursday, 13 October 2005 00:16 (nineteen years ago)

Weird. I let it warm up for a really long time and then I plugged a guitar in. I clicked the footswitch to make sure the vibrato and reverb were OFF first. And I began to play ever so quietly and slowly. Eventually I turned on both the vibrato and echo to achieve a very spacemen 3 / surf effect.

And with no problems. I played for almost an hour.

Do I seriously have to let the tubes warm up for 45 minutes before I can play the thing?

Sadly, this amp is way too loud for my apartment and way too tricky for playing live. Sucks, too, because it sounds amazing. What's weird about it compared to most amps I'm used to is how varied the volume is. If I hit the strings loud, there's a big response compared to most modern amps which tend to keep things within a certain range.

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 00:59 (nineteen years ago)

And thanks for all your help, everyone!

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

What do I do if the pots are worn?

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Thursday, 13 October 2005 02:24 (nineteen years ago)

if the pots are truly worn and not just dirty, they need to be replaced. easy enough to do, and I'd do it for free if I was in NYC. still, it shouldnt be *too* much to get em replaced. but that's only if they continue to crackle as you're turning them after youve cleaned them. that is, if they're *worn* they're not *dirty* so cleaning wont fix the problem.

still, but intuition is that it's tubes, not pots that are causing the microphonic feedback.

correct, a bad fuse means the amp wouldnt turn on.

"Experiment: turn on with nothing plugged in, all knobs turned down and wait for static..."

try this again, but keep a close watch on those tubes. see if they change color. do the tap test. what you DO NOT want is the big grey metal plates in the tubes (the most visible part) to start turning red. Dim the lights a bit so you can see any color changes. The very inside of each tube should be glowing nicely, but the outer metal plates shouldnt. If any of these plates are glowing red (it'll start like a spot in the middle, like it's blushin), turn the amp off. If you have a replacement tube, try it, but if not I would strongly suggest getting a tech to look at it. It's more likely than not something inside the circuitry causing it to do that, and the tube can overheat and blow very quickly, causing a short and be very dangerous.

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:53 (nineteen years ago)

Ok, thanks AaronK, I will try this tonight.

I did play for about an hour last night with no incident, as I said, after having let the thing warm up for about 45 minutes before I started playing it. The only time it squealed was when I turned up the Echo with my guitar right in front of it, which is normal feedback. I immediately turned it off and then a few seconds later turned it right back on to see if it would still squeal, but it didn't. I'm thinking it just needs to warm up a long time, but I will double check to make sure the plates in the tubes don't turn reddish tonight.

I wonder what a distortion pedal would do to this thing.

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

not sure, what is this ECHO you speak of? the reverb in the amp? a chorus or delay pedal? something else?

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

It's called Echo, but it's almost like Reverb. Actually, it sounds cooler than any reverb I've heard, but it also has a tendency to create a big near-overdrive sound at high levels, so usually just a tiny bit of Echo is necessary to give it a really drippy wet Pink Floydian sound. Add some slight vibrato with low intensity and you can get some unbelievable dimension to your sound. It's too bad that the volume becomes such a different level if you click the vibrato back off.

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

is it a pedal, what?

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

It's a dial. On the amplifier. It's part of the amp. It's called Echo.

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know if there's any real difference between vintage echo and vintage reverb. I don't really understand how it works (something to do with a spring?)... but Ampeg made another amp later called the Echo Jet, so they were clearly into calling it "echo" for a while. shrug.

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:48 (nineteen years ago)

it's probably the tube that controls the reverb/echo. it's either the 6cg7 or the 12ax7 for reverb. not sure which that is there. but i'm pretty sure it's one of those that's bad.

that extra pot looks like a hum balance pot on the schematic. probably best to keep it right around the middle.

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

that extra pot looks like a hum balance pot on the schematic. probably best to keep it right around the middle.

You mean the dial on the back of the amp? Just looked it up... you're right!

What does a hum balance even do?!

it's probably the tube that controls the reverb/echo. it's either the 6cg7 or the 12ax7 for reverb. not sure which that is there. but i'm pretty sure it's one of those that's bad.

So that warm-up time is too long? It worked fine after I let it warm up for 45 minutes. I think it only squealed because I was standing right in front of the thing with my guitar facing it as I turned up the Echo. I mean, people put their guitars in this position for the sole purpose of obtaining feedback.

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:23 (nineteen years ago)

Ah... I get the idea of a hum balance. Weird ancient technology.

I'm going to hook up a big muff and a crybaby to it tonight. See if I die.

The Vintage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, the hum balance is a bit odd. never seen an adjustment there, although it's probably a good idea.

you will not die regardless of how high you turn the gain up on the big muff. It might sound awful, but you wont die, believe me.

also, im nto sure why it worked ok after you let it warm up a while. once it's warm enough to work ok, it should be fine.

also, microphonic feedback is worst when you're right near the amp. reverb helps feedback of all kinds, and it would surely make this worse.

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

Ok, my amp works great. Seems it was all about the hum balance in da back. And making sure it warms up. And not turning it up loud whilest close.

Something else I discovered:

1. Big Muff really controls the amp better for some reason.

2. Unfortunately, Big Muff is a sucky useless pedal for anything but power chords.

The VIntage Tuber, Thursday, 13 October 2005 23:01 (nineteen years ago)

shiiiiiit

i'll trade you that crummy big muff for a really spectacular tuna melt tremolo!

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 14 October 2005 00:44 (nineteen years ago)

Turn Ye Down Ye Olde Sustain Knob!

It will clean up yer Big Muff tremendously, and make single notes purr like kittens. Admittedly, angry kittens, but still...

John Justen (johnjusten), Friday, 14 October 2005 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

I just don't get the Big Muff sound, I guess. It seems quite impossible to get a nice even distortion that makes everything sound equally decent. But, then again it's been a long time since I played anything but an acoustic.

The Vintage Tuber, Friday, 14 October 2005 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

a friend of mine had a similar problem while still claiming to really like the big muff. i convinced him that what he really wanted was a Rat.

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 14 October 2005 10:27 (nineteen years ago)

Rat— I've always heard good things about that and the Tube Screamer. Have no idea what they sound like, though.

I prefer the distortion channel from almost any amp over this Big Muff. I've never been good with pedals, though, which is sad because whenever I see a cover band with really amazing guitar tones that sound very much like the original sounds, they inevitably have a pedal board full of shit with half the lights on at any given time.

The Vintage Tuber, Friday, 14 October 2005 10:37 (nineteen years ago)


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