Circle Of Fifths: C/D?

totally read this as Cradle of Filth

Dud-ish because it seems a complex way to remember something. All my stuff is in G, D, E, A, or C anyway.

totally read this as Cradle of Filth
Maybe it was this confusion from whence they got their name.

The way I think about it is in terms of chord shapes. ie to the left of an A shape I have an E shape and to the right, a D shape. All of the notes in those chords make up the notes in the key. So for instance, C barred on the third fret has F to the right and G to the left, giving the notes CEG, FAC and GBD, rearrange for CDEFGAB; E(EG#B) barred on the 7th has B (BFD#) to the left and A(AC#F#) to the right, giving E,F#,G#,A,B,C#,D#. Which is all circle of fifths really, but I wouldn't be able to think about it without visualising chord shapes on a guitar neck.

I know this probably makes little sense to anyone but me!

Classic. Knowing this shit is an immense help to sightreading

Yeah, classic. It's been helpful to me in learning to sightread (tho I'm no musician, by any stretch of imagination).

I think about fifths a lot but I don't read sheet music very well. circle of fifths is probably the only way I'd be able to figure out what key something's in by the key signature because I'd spend too long trying to figure out which bars have the flats drawn on them.

i can see how it could be useful, but i very rarely think about music in this way. perhaps this is why nobody likes the band i am in.

I just used the Circle of Fifths to figure out that a tune I was tinkering around with is in E Minor. So when the results come in, please mentally take one off "dud" and add it to "classic". Don't know how some of you memorise that diagram though.

Might use this thread to ask HI DERE questions about sightsinging.

I think about fifths a lot but I don't read sheet music very well. circle of fifths is probably the only way I'd be able to figure out what key something's in by the key signature because I'd spend too long trying to figure out which bars have the flats drawn on them.

I learned the treble and bass clefs so young that they are basically like reading English to me; if you really want to see me cry, show me music written with an alto or tenor clef. Given that, and knowing that for major keys you can figure out the sharp keys by going up a half step from the last sharp and figure out the flat keys by using the second-to-last flat, you basically only have to memorize C (no accidentals) and F (1 flat). (For the minor keys, figure out what the major key would be, then go to the sixth of that scale and there's your minor key.)

Thanks to exposure over time, I pretty much memorized the common key signatures (A-flat, E-flat, B-flat, F, C, G, D, A, E, B) but even there the circle of fifths thing kind of rears its ugly head.

Ha, I was going to say as long as it's not more than five sharps or four flats I'm okay.

lol

There's a reason no one ever uses those key signatures; no one can read them!

keep reading this as "cradle of fifths"

I learned the treble and bass clefs so young that they are basically like reading English to me; if you really want to see me cry, show me music written with an alto or tenor clef.
I took piano lessons for a short time as a kid and saw both but didn't learn to read properly until I started playing bass years later. In the past few months I have been trying to play the piano and it's kind of annoying because now I feel like I can read the treble clef better than the bass clef, which I seem to have forgotten.

Can't sight sing, but when in some church hymnal situation usually just figure out what key it is, whether it's major and minor look for big skips so I can get ready and then follow somebody else who already knows the song. I'd be interested to know what a semi-pro such as HI DERE actually does.

I feel like I can read the treble clef better than the bass clef, which I seem to have forgotten.

Me too.

My sightreading is heavily based in solfege (thank you, "Sound of Music"). Basically, as I'm singing I do the following:

1. Figure out what key I'm in and whether it's major or minor.
2. As I'm reading the notes, I figure out where in the major or minor scale my next note is and what octave/register it's in and sing everything based around that scale.
3. As the piece continues through its chord progressions I adjust my mental scale to whatever the current chord in the progression I'm singing is.
4. If I hit an accidental that doesn't really fit in with the progression, I think of it as a leading to to a note in the chord.

So, for example, as a bass in a mixed quartet, if I'm singing a song that follows a I - IV - V- I progression written in the key of C, I'm most likely singing the root of the chords (C - F - G - C) and therefore just have to remember the do - fa - sol - do bits of solfege as I'm going along. If the piece starts jumping around, like say it goes C - A - G - E, I mentally readjust to say "okay, I start out on the root of a C chord, then sing the third of the F chord, then the root of the G chord and end on the third of the C chord" which translates to do - la - sol - me. When things start getting more complicated, such as extended, drawn out chord sequences where the overarching pattern of the piece is C - F - G - C, but the first section based around C has its own internal progression that leads to F (like say I - vi - V - ii - IV or something similar), which has its own internal progression that leads to G etc etc, I reset my root note to whatever the main key of that section is and do solfege from there. This usually adds a lot of instances where you're singing accidentals not in the original key and, for bases, a lot of transitional tritone leaps where you pretty much know the interval due to exposure but it's almost always written leading to a note actually in the chord, so you can figure it out that way.

btw depending on the piece you end up having to do this at breakneck speed so sightreading is never not stressful, unless you're one of those perfect pitch bastards and even then that's not 100% reliable.

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;_; I thought someone was fascinated by my sightsinging infodump ;_;

I was fascinated by it; no joek. It was a well-written discussion of music theory, which isn't easy. I only sightread on, at best, an intermediate level, and only for guitar and piano pieces, but it was cool to see how the stuff I've learned applies to vocals.

I was fascinated, thanks. Sorry I didn't reply sooner.

I think Barry Harris teaches people to do something similar but using numbers instead of solfege.

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Re: the number thing, that is pretty much exactly the same as solfege in my book.

Fair enough. Were you thinking of this whilst singing in the Christmas Mass, Dan?

ha actually I didn't sing this Christmas due to holiday travelling; however, I was at my wif'e grandmother's place and sight-reading some music she'd brought home from church, which is why I poked my head back into this thread

What if you are on a minor scale- is it "mi" or "mi-flat"?