neophyte Mac musician seeks recommendations

I just picked up an iMac and am completely in love with it, Garageband and Sibelius 6. (ps why the fuck does Sibelius cost a bazillion dollars) I'm looking to augment with:

- a microphone
- a MIDI/USB keyboard

Does anyone have the M-Audio 25 key keyboards? How do you like it? Is there another one you'd recommend?

Should I bother getting a full-on "professional" mic with a USB interface to plug into the computer if I don't even have a soundproof area to record in? (right now I'm thinking no) Any experience with the USB mics and any in particular you'd recommend?

Any point to getting Reason if I'm starting to get comfortable with Garageband?

(I asked some of these questions on I think the ILE Apple lust objects threads but a: I can't find where it was and b: loading more than 1K replies crashes my browser, so even if I found it, it would be a toss-up as to whether I could get to the replies.)

you don't want a usb mic, you want a usb preamp/interface and a normal xlr-output mic. i think you'd be fine with an inexpensive preamp/interface like one of those m-audio ones, and a shure sm58, honestly.

Audio fidelity is that different between the two (particularly in a non-soundproofed environment)? Or is this coming from the philosophy of "why buy twice what you could buy once"?

(cuz yeah, I totally see the point re: the latter)

mostly audio quality -- i've just never heard of a pro usb mic. and yeah, if you get a real mic and a preamp/interface then you'll be able to use them for other things.

btw i think you'll be able to record pretty decent vocals at home, ymmv but it's not like drums where the room sound is crucial.

You can always pick up Reason later, anyway, or Logic or that class of software after you've played with GB for a while. You'll know when/if you hit the limits of GB - I wouldn't worry about it for a while.

just picked up a Presonus FireBox (why use USB when you can go FireWire) for an interface and am very very happy with it.

The USB microphones out there are mostly cheaper condenser microphones built to let people do podcasts and such. Some of them are decent, actually -- I have a Samson one I kinda like -- but yeah, you're better off getting a preamp and interface. You'll have higher quality and more control, and if you ever want to try a different mic or run a line in from an instrument, you'll already have the interface.

I don't think room recording will be a problem for you, especially since you know how to use your voice properly already. One mic question you might have to think about, though, is whether you want a dynamic or a condenser mic. Either one works fine for vocals, but in different ways. Dynamics (like that SM58) are more all-purpose, and might suit you because you have a strong/powerful voice; they also work on amplifiers and louder instruments. Condensers tend to sound more bright and airy, and more sensitive, sometimes taking in more of the room -- you'd sing from a lot further back on them. (There are types that point straight ahead in a line, and types that pick up sound in a wide circle. Either type might require an interface with phantom power for the mic.)

^^ I mean, I wouldn't get all worried or obsessive about different choices when you're just trying to get something together -- but it might not hurt to find someplace you can try a few different types, because you'll probably notice right away which ones work with your voice.

As far as USB keyboards go: from what I can tell, the main thing that winds up mattering to people is how they feel -- if the keys are cheap or sticky, if the housing is fragile, if it's comfortable, etc. Beyond that there are just a bunch of choices in extra features or number of keys, but I feel like the majority of them do the basic job -- output MIDI to your program -- pretty much the same.

Sorry, I'm sure you know a lot of that stuff about mic types already

I guess I'm just saying finding a type that works for your voice is probably gonna make way more difference than how high-quality the actual mic is.

Totally makes sense, I was mostly just looking for direction on where I should be looking (there are like 5-6 different USB mics sold at the Apple store but, to my knowledge, I can't play with them before buying, so I should go to a music store and play with a few there (ahem jjjusten that might be a nod in yr direction for the next time I'm in MN)) plus trying to be Mr Cheapy McCheapface since omg I just bought a computer I really really really wanted but sort of didn't need and am now like "oh shit stop spending money, think of the economy (where by 'economy' I really mean 'joint savings account that my sometimes-not-understanding-of-geeky-tech-purchases wife can see')"

My wife is pushing for a full 88 key keyboard, which is kind of o_O to me although you won't see me complaining one little bit.

Should I get one of the interfaces at the Apple store or should I go to a music store?

I get wanting an 88-key keyboard, since it's kind of annoying to actually play anything live on less, even the 48-key. For recording purposes less is generally fine though.

Don't go straight to the Apple store, you're bound to find better deals on other online stores, eBay, or even craigslist.

http://rapidshare.com/files/361340384/Test.m4a.html

lol, can I turn this into an actual song/track? ONLY TIME CAN TELL

haha. uh, btw... GB by default puts your user/real name in the song information, in case you're as paranoid about those things as I am

eh, I posted under my real name for 6 years so I am not very concerned about that

as long as my password isn't there, I'm cool

Oh if you need a MIDI->USB converter (for a midi keyboard, say) there are these very cheap ones on ebay that work fine. around $5-$7 or so. (I'm amazed they can ship them from HK and still make a profit)

Most MIDI keyboards now have both original style MIDI and USB outputs now, it's not much of a concern

Ha, I was just reminded of this thread by seeing this handy solution to the room-sound question:

http://www.hometracked.com/2006/12/17/portable-vocal-booth/

Honestly, as far as trying out different mics goes, it's really a situation in which I wouldn't feel bad about trying out items from a big store with a good return policy. (Even if that just means picking up two choices and returning the one you like less.) If you do just want to keep it really simple and grab a USB mic ... it's not like I have a bunch of comparative knowledge of them, but for a long time I was plenty happy with a $99 Samson condenser mic; it was crisp, airy, had a great strong signal, and suited my voice okay. But that dynamic-versus-condenser question seems like the first one to sort out.

I'm in sort of the same situation. I used to have an sm58 and an audio buddy preamp but I never managed to get a decent sound. My problem seemed to be the vox recording was incredibly sensitive to the loudness/distance from the microphone so when I needed to record a song in different takes they all sounded different, also kind of muted. Really annoying. Now I've got a Mac and it has no analog input so I have no choice but to go usb, but don't know if I should get a some audio interface and plug it to my original set up (preamp + dynamic mic) or just get a usb mic.

Also (unrelated problem) I've just started playing with Garageband, using the mac keyboard, but I'm getting really high latency when I try to record while other tracks are playing (and it's only like 5 tracks). How do I make this go away? Would it help if I use a usb controller instead?

Last thing. Has anyone tried the Garageband upgrade packages? Are they worth it? I was considering getting the "electronic" one, since all I really need is synths and beats.

^^^ That's the dynamic vs. condenser issue! You were using a dynamic mic. Dynamics are what you'd usually use for loud instruments, amplifiers, and to sing into on stage -- so yeah, it makes a big difference how you're placed in relation to it. (They're also less sensitive to quiet sounds, which is why you can put one two inches from a giant amplifier.) A condenser is the kind you might use to, say, record a conversation in a radio studio -- it's crisp and airy and "open" and gets small sounds from all around. (So you would usually not stick it close to a really loud sound.)

So you should absolutely try a condenser. I would say the same to HI DERE, except I know he has a powerful voice and really knows how to use it, which means a dynamic might wind up suiting him better. (Even if a condenser might be simpler/easier.)

(CAVEAT: I do not know a ton about mics, or anything; this is just an amateurish description of one big difference.)

nah, I would likely get a condenser mic (I know enough about them to know that but not much more; if I was going to be recording in a soundproof space, I would consider a dynamic mic)

I'd say I definitely do not have powerful voice so I guess it makes sense to go condenser. Thanks, nabisco.

Really, the only context in which I would really consider a dynamic mic is like a recital setting, where you're more likely to try to capture room ambiance as well as the music; like maybe if I use this setup in a space where I'm recording audition material for my wife, I'd use a dynamic mic to pick up her and the piano in the hall, but for me singing nonsense over whatever random bad electro beat I make up I would be condenser all the way.

i just like the sound of condensors better, i could use an overhead mic (like these rhodes nt-5s i just got, after borrowing a pair from a friend and testing them out) for just about everything.

incidentally, the only thing i've found i really like a 57 on is a hi-hat.

dan are you looking to just record vocals, or are there other potential inputs you are going to need?

also i kind of hate 57's, the audix i5 is a much better mic with similar characteristics for the same price

vocals vocals vocals! Maybe at some point I'll need a mic to record J at a recital but that's not the primary goal.

i have a used maudio 25 key controller at work, i might bring it home and fiddle with it and see what i think. note: i will be glad to take all of your money when you start buying lavish gear dan, i am just a swell guy that way

xpost: OK, the reason i asked is that samson makes something called a gtrack that i highly recommend if you go the USB condenser mic route, it also has some additional inputs built into it. actually i would still put that at the top of my list if you dont need them, because it has a built in headphone/monitor out, which means tadah no latency problems!

btw you are aware of the whole latency issue right? because it is ultra key for overdubs and such, and lots of people go insane trying to make it not work against them.

not aware of the latency issue but I am sure I would have discovered it on my own (using the built-in mic with headphones magically seems to avoid it completely)

yeah as long as you are monitoring via the interface device you should be fine, so if you go the usb interface route and use the headphone jack on that you should be fine as well

aha, good to know

btw please help me craft a convincing argument that talks my wife out of making me buy an 88 key MIDI controller so that I can afford to pay for Sibelius, thx in advance

It's very big and takes up a lot of space. If you don't actually play keyboards and are just using it to enter notes into a sequencer, then a four or five octave keyboard will do fine.

Also specifically re: space, an 88 key controller will dominate a desk, leaving nowhere to put the mouse and keyboard, while a four octave can go underneath it on a shelf (mine does).

her argument: I want something I can use to play
my counter-argument: but you DON'T PLAY PIANO/KEYS
her counter-counter-argument: fuck you, I'm learning

DON'T PLAY PIANO/KEYS / I'm learning

Five octaves is fine then.

wait, GarageBand has a upgrade packages ? ?

(xpost) Also one with a bazillion knobs and sliders isn't necessary.

tell her that you are just buying a small one until the bosendorfer model comes out so she has enough keys to play all those tori amos songs she loves so much

OMG, I had no idea anyone made a USB mic with direct monitoring: that is pretty awesome

That mic is $114 on Amazon; is that a good price?

oh btw J capitulated on the controller, yay

this is the only thread i can find dealing w/ usb microphones. have these gotten any better or are they still useless for anything other than podcasting (lol), specifically wondering about blue yeti (the pro has usb and xlr output o_O) and others like it

i have never used a usb mic, but if the mic itself is ok, and blue stuff tends to be alright, then it would probably be fine.

the converters inside yr average usb mic are nothing special but they'll do the job

I used a Blue Yeti to record this: http://soundcloud.com/djperry1973/god-rest-ye-merry-gentlemen

obv you can hear my desk chair creaking from time to time (and also at times my falsetto and bass are terrible) but just on pure sound quality, I am pleased with it

oh lol btw thread, I ended up getting the aforementioned Yeti Blue USB mic under the following logic:

- it was cheap, all things considered
- I saw it, it looked cool, and the reviews I read on my phone when I saw it were positive
- I really, really wanted it

ha, thats pretty sick multi-tracking, sounds good. the yeti gets great reviews, like on bhphoto which i find pretty trustworthy

i went the cheap-o route and got the samson q2u cuz its dynamic (don't want to pick up background noise) and has xlr / usb. just did a quick test and its nice & quiet, pretty decent for the price. the best buy here is closing for good so they're doing the blowout sale thing. audio-technica makes almost exactly like it for the same price but this one came with some xtra bullshit like headphones and a lil mic stand