TS: popular appeal or critical approval?

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If you could only have one, would you rather your songs appeal to the populace or be appreciated in a more academic sense by critics?

Forget about fame and money, because they can be had on both sides, just explain your position.

For me, the answer often moves from one side to the other. Right now i think i'm on a more critical approval side. I *think*, i'm not sure.

― AaronK (AaronK), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

Popular appeal, I want to make teenage girls cry(with music, that is, not another way).

― Alex H (Alex Henreid), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 16:42 (nineteen years ago)

popular appeal. id rather have people show up at my shows.

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

I will go so far as to say that anyone who seriously says they would prefer critical approval to popular appeal is a cock.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

I prefer rocking the party to either one.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

If you separate fame and money from the equation it gets kind of complicated. For example I'd much rather be rich and obscure but critically acclaimed than be wildly popular and appear on the cover of every tabloid while being completely broke. That's just common sense.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

Popular appeal matters more in every way.

― Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

Call me a cock, but if I could earn a good living from it either way I'd rather have critical approval and a moderate following (but not true "popular appear"). I mean I'd like to be appreciated, but I don't think I'd ever want to be a big celebrity.

But I don't really know if that's what your asking. And I don't really like the idea that there's some kind of concrete divide between popular and critical appeal.

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 20 October 2005 00:02 (nineteen years ago)

I think he is asking t/s: Foreigner v. Television.

― Its morph 'em to pun cute (Matt Chesnut), Thursday, 20 October 2005 00:14 (nineteen years ago)

haha

there is no concrete divide, i'm making one for the sake of arguement.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 20 October 2005 02:37 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I guess popular appeal would be better than *only* appealing to critics.

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 20 October 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago)

I think there can be a concrete divide, although there are artists who can straddle the line (Kanye is multi-plat, generally highly praised.)

To truly demonstrate the dichotomy at its most dire, consider that Nickelback has the #2 song and #1 album in the country right now. Spoon is by and large critically revered but not so much popular as they are indie popular, which means they'll sell around 100,000. They're not making the rounds on top 40, at any rate.

I guess what I'm saying is, "Who would you rather be?"

http://pulp.bluecircus.net/archives/britt_daniel.jpg
http://www.groovy-chick.com/hunks/chad.jpg

― Its morph 'em to pun cute (Matt Chesnut), Thursday, 20 October 2005 03:31 (nineteen years ago)

So you're saying if I'm Chad Kroeger I get more weed.

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 20 October 2005 03:34 (nineteen years ago)

I'm saying you'll look like a broke-ass white version of Snoop.

― Its morph 'em to pun cute (Matt Chesnut), Thursday, 20 October 2005 03:38 (nineteen years ago)

Please tell me that photo is for High Times magazine, cause otherwise that's the lamest fucking photo ever. I'm going with the guy from Spoon.

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 20 October 2005 03:41 (nineteen years ago)

I bet Britt Daniel is more clandestine with his weed usage.

― Its morph 'em to pun cute (Matt Chesnut), Thursday, 20 October 2005 03:43 (nineteen years ago)

Popular appeal. Critical approval certainly isn't what it used to be.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 20 October 2005 07:26 (nineteen years ago)

hmm. perhaps a better way of phrasing this question is exactly that then - except that I think for this purpos i think even Spoon might be a bit too popular.

he really DOES look like snoop in that photo. weird.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

I was being a cock myself, obv., upthread, but my point was that I don't understand what basis anyone could have for choosing critical approval over popular appeal other than intellectual snobbery ("I want to make music so 'challenging' that only really smart people appreciate it.").

― n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 20 October 2005 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

I wanna be the guy with the most weed.

― Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 20 October 2005 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

I don't understand what basis anyone could have for choosing critical approval over popular appeal other than intellectual snobbery

How about preferring a small obsessive fanbase of dedicated music lovers rather than a million casual listeners, playing in smaller venues rather than huge stadiums, having more artistic freedom rather than worrying about pleasing everyone, or not wanting to be so famous that your personal life becomes the subject of media scrutiny?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 20 October 2005 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

n/a i dont think it's quite THAT snobby. ah fuck. I can't really articulate what's what and I'm not even sure than I had a firm idea when I started this thread. man, when my roomate offered this question he put it in a way that was crytal clear. I'm obviously failing to do so.

but the issue of critics vs audience is extremely blurry anyway. critics are part of the group of listeners too, and some listeners who aren't critics listen with the same "ear." So i wasnt trying to equate "critical approval" with "looks good on paper" or something like that. In reality, if someone is writing a critical review of your work, it means that many people, although "voiceless," still have the same opinion (maybe not exactly the same, but if one person writes a positive review, you can be pretty sure that there are quite a few people in the "non-critic" audience who like it too. I'm thinking of the neilson ratings...).

So any more-than-tiny amount of critical approval implies a non-critic (NOT "non-critical" mind you) audience as well. It's just a question of size i guess.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 20 October 2005 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

Well, you added the "casual" vs. "obsessive" aspects, which aren't an inherent part of the original question, and the rest of your phrasing seems to be addressing more of a "Would you rather be mildly famous or really famous?" question, not the one that was asked.

― n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 20 October 2005 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

That's true but I really have trouble separating the concepts of fame, money, popular appeal and critical approval because they are all interrelated. If we're creating a false binary between popular appeal and critical approval then it implies that the popular appeal comes with critical disapproval and that the critical approval comes with relative obscurity. So in the end it still becomes a question of relative fame.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 20 October 2005 16:04 (nineteen years ago)

ah, so maybe i'll ask that question:

ts: popular appeal with critical disapproval vs. critical approval with relative obscurity ?

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 20 October 2005 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

Screw critics, they're more fickle than the general populace in most cases.

― Alex H (Alex Henreid), Thursday, 20 October 2005 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

they are fickle.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 20 October 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

And I don't tend to agree with critical taste any more than popular taste anyway, so fuck it.

But honestly if my choice was really between being Chad Kroeger and Brit Daniel I'd choose Brit Daniel. Chad Kroeger looks like a retard and Brit Daniel probably gets to sleep with women that are more my type.

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 21 October 2005 02:22 (nineteen years ago)

Also, I mean the fact is I'm a bit of a snobby person, and I doubt I could be myself as a popular celebrity. I'd rather make music I like, and if it happened to have popular appeal, it's not like I'd some how "shun the adoration of the stinking masses" or something, but like I said, I'd rather make music I like.

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 21 October 2005 02:27 (nineteen years ago)

It seems like it would be easier to go from critical approval to popular appeal (I guess Springsteen would be the ultimate example) than to go from popular appeal to critical approval (any precedents?). For example if Nick Drake hadn't killed himself he'd probably be a wealthy man today. Would you rather be a living Nick Drake or James Taylor?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 21 October 2005 03:21 (nineteen years ago)

Wouldn't Britney Spears be a perfect example of popular appeal to critical approval? I mean I don't think there were many music writers championing her in her early, underground days.

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 21 October 2005 03:25 (nineteen years ago)

Voice stays the same, song writing/producing personel changes I see pop starlets like Britney as an instrument/PR asset for the production team almost like a plugin for Protools/spokesperson rolled into one.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Friday, 21 October 2005 08:34 (nineteen years ago)

Objection: relevance?

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

Objection sustained.

I guess Britney is a good example. I have never really followed her career or the critical response to it. There are probably many other mainstream pop acts that go through a period of mass acceptance, fall out of fashion for a period and then are revived and reassessed by critics after the fact.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

Kylie Minogue maybe. I don't know how her 80s stuff was received.

― Alex H (Alex Henreid), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:47 (nineteen years ago)

I want to do what I want to do. It would be lovely if it happened to be popular or critically approved. Popular pays the bills better, I am told.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:27 (nineteen years ago)

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