whipping a new band into shape: how do you do it

in a new band with some lazy disorganized bums. we had one great jam but since then nothing has gotten accomplished and i'm thinking of quitting. the nature of the band requires a certain degree of sloppiness but this is kind of too much. it's pretty disheartening. you guys got any advice for whipping some goons who just want to 'jam and let it vibe, dude' learn to play actual songs? they're all old and dear friends, but not super receptive to criticism.

what do you want this band to be?

what do you mean? like, a serious band or a not serious band? hopefully a pretty serious band, there's a budding scene of cool likeminded local bands i'd love to play gigs with. the potential is there, we all feel it and hear it. it was exciting the first time we played, i would be down to get serious if we picked up some momentum

well, if the other guys just want to jam and don't want to play pre-written material, which requires more rehearsal time and negotiation, then maybe these are not the guys you want to be in a band with if that's what you want to do.

Maybe the first step is to record your rehearsals and circulate the recording to the other band members, so they can decide for themselves whether it's good or it sucks.

agree with sarahel, if people don't want to be serious there's no use in trying to persuade them

ambition>>>>>>>>>>>>taste>>talent

ok that is some good advice. also: i have recorded every jam we've done so far

xp

what do your bandmates think of them? If you don't have the same aesthetics, then you can either go along with the majority or take turns determining said aesthetic: "we'll do a 20 minute jam your way, then we'll do one my way." for example

it's not that they're not taking it seriously, well it is that but it's also something else. like, our lead guitarist isn't in school and just works a bum job and plays in a couple other bands. he's a serious musician, in that he's pretty much devoted his life to it, but he doesn't think the key to success for this band will be hard work and structured songs. he thinks a looser policy will work but it so obviously isn't working.

"we'll do a 20 minute jam your way, then we'll do one my way." for example

this is a really good suggestion. another issue is i'm kind of the creative dictator of this band, i put us all together and had a pretty fully form pre-conceived idea of what we would sound like and sort of instructed us all along the way. the cool thing is we sound pretty close to what i had envisioned, or atleast we have at certain points. i think now that we've jammed a few times i'm losing control, people have their own conflicting ideas about what it should sound like. this is all typical band stuff though not so central to my problem

do you have structured songs that you have written already?

yeah, and they're really simple and easy to play. pretty freeform, just chords and vocals, some harmonies/group vocals

and these dudes don't want to practice them/play them?

it's difficult, it just devolves into these corny jams pretty quickly.

kind of trying to keep myself from accepting the reality that i am in a band with three neanderthals

from my experience, unless the other band members have gone in knowing that you are the leader/composer and they are playing "your" music, taking turns works best, and trying to motivate through enthusiasm rather than browbeating is more effective, esp. since it doesn't seem like money is a major motivating factor. Like, "Hey, I'm really stoked about this song I wrote, could we work on it for a while?"

From experience, there is NO WAY to get people to take shit more seriously, and in the end you'll feel resentful doing all the fucking work. Don't waste your time trying, find others willing to put in as much as you.

there are ways to get people to take shit more seriously, but it is often more work than finding bandmates with interests/ambitions closer to your own.

get out now. it's a waste of time and will go nowhere

It sounds like you're in some ambiguous middle ground right now. You're the "creative dictator" who essentially put the band together with a goal - i.e. it's your band. On the other hand, you want the other people to take it more seriously - you're looking for their input. You have to decide which way you want to go: do you want to be in charge, in which case you have to take responsibility for telling everyone what you want them to do and cracking down on aimless jams, or do you want it to be more collaborative, in which case you have to be open to what the other dudes want to do.

Sounds like a headache. Find new bandmates, you'll be glad you did.

he doesn't think the key to success for this band will be hard work and structured songs. he thinks a looser policy will work but it so obviously isn't working.

gotta nip that shit in the bud. if you're creative dictator and you think hard work and structured songs is the way to go, then be clear about that. you don't have to be concerned about "winning", some good music comes out of the tension of cross-purposes, but you've got to advocate for your position. if your vision is worth anything it'll carry the day and make for a satisfying experience for everybody.

this might sound weird coming from a noise dude, but what separates good bands from great bands is hard work, we all can't be flipper. the first ppl who will recognize and appreciate the amount of time you've spent rehearsing yr shit is the audience.

you can always try the old "book a show and then everyone will have to get their shit together" method. and then record it so everyone can listen back, cringe, and then try to get their shit together. and if that doesn't work, maybe new band mates.

we're playing a house party monday

this probably won't help with your ambitions but if you're up for a goof sing a 15-second song over to
30 second song @ gmail.com (without spaces)
and I'll record some backing tracks and send it back approximating the style of your choice as best I can

i've spent a lotta time playing shows and jamming with different off the cuff sorts of bands like you're describing and the results have ranged from spectacular to complete disaster, and that's just sort of part of how bands like that work. but i will tell you the result of never, ever, ever getting your shit on the same page in any shape or form is not good. and i don't mean writing material > not writing material; i mean even if you're working w/ freeform dudes and they can not or refuse to get on the same page it's possible it'll never work and that's just kinda how it is. if you think this band is not working than that might be what you're stuck with. otoh you just might not have found the right way to work with these people and i don't think anyone here can really tell you exactly what to do about this, there's no one magic formula imo.

i dunno maybe you just need worse musicians who are actually willing to rehearse.

also q-ing this ft:
some good music comes out of the tension of cross-purposes

^^sorry for muddled lack of advice, i'm kinda totally exhausted + sick tbh

ah man not at all i really appreciate it & all other posts so far itt. this band is kind of forming at a pretty huge moment of existential musician angst where i'm not sure to what i extent i want to dedicate my life & creative energies to playing music. i'm feeling (probably unnecessarily) that the greater tides of life as a musician are hinging on the success of this band, i really need to get my head straight and it's awesome to have people to talk to about it.

i'm feeling (probably unnecessarily) that the greater tides of life as a musician are hinging on the success of this band,

this doesn't seem like a particularly healthy way to think about it. if this band doesn't work out, you can form another band. If no one shows up to a gig, you can always book another. also, don't dedicate your life and creative energies to playing music unless you absolutely have to. it's okay to be a hobbyist, a member of a weekend dad band, one of the jamming uncles.

well i don't mean dedicate my life as in like my entire life, come fall i'll start school again and that will take up pretty much all my free time. but i'm wondering about all the time i spend in bands, which i've taken pretty seriously for the past 2 ~ 3 years, and just doing some soul searching is all. this band has just conveniently been born on the eve of this crisis and i'm making a big deal out of it as a result.

oh dude i feel like that all the time. but then next thing i know i'll get some new record i'm in love with or i'll stumble on some progression or for no reason my guitar just feels right in my hands and it's like both fist in the air and i love music again. it's just up and down like that because i burn out, or let one letdown get to me, or maybe i'm at some transition point transforming the way i look at things, or any number of stuff. sometimes it's a weekend, sometimes it's for four months but i love music and i always come back to wanting it in my life again in some form. i hope it turns out the same for you, always sad to see someone just lay it all down. especially over one minor hurdle, or worse some malformed idea like 'well gotta have kids now need that job' or whatever.'

it'll all be cool, you're probably just in a rut.

need that job

I gave up making music for a few years on the basis of "concentrating on my career" - second or third most stupid decision I ever made.

haha i'm nineteen years old and work at a deli and attend university, no such job to speak of! i guess that probably will make some of you think this is a petty teenage worry, but it's an awkward transition from highschool dipshit in a bad brains cover band to young srs music dude and i've got to be sure i want to do it. anyways the new band is playing a house party tomorrow but our bassist might be moving to the country temporarily for a job, so the project might be put on ice/focus on writing material with the other two members and i think that's maybe exactly what it needs.