-=[THE SYNTH ZONE]=-

Synths, synths, synths, let us talk about all the synthesizers

They're great instruments.

SYNTH FACT OF THE DAY: Despite performing what is called "photosynthesis", plants are in fact NOT synthesizers.

do you a favorite synthesizer?

Are you an old school analog synth fetishist?

Fave synth, that's a hard question. I like synths where every function has a knob you can twist, so let's go with that. The Yamaha CS-80 is my dream machine, though. The recent Dave Smith synths like Prophet 12 are good contenders for My Fave Synth as well.

Analog synths do sound great (I own a Microbrute) but some of the analog-fetishism (or rather digital hatred) can seem ridiculous for some. After all, it's the player that makes an instrument sound good, not the other way around.

Speaking of analog and fav synths, if I owned this synth I would be happy for the rest of my life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuCQ3Do6lk

I am interested in what envelopes and VCAs sound like, usually the first thing I do when I check out a synth is how "snappy" the envelopes can get, how nicely the VCAs and filters respond to it, the percussive qualities. Buchlas sound like "pk" then "pup" then "plup". ARP 2600s sounds like "clk" then "cluck". Rolands and new DSIs do not have any percussive qualities that are as useful as those synths.

I love the sound of FM synth + analog filters these days and have been tooling around with a couple of Mutable Instruments objects that are very interesting. Switchable tuning! turn a knob and it's real, it's Pythagorean, pretty cool stuff.

FM synthesis definitely needs a comeback

My first encounter with FM synth (outside of pre-pubescent .cmf programming, and I didn't really get what was happening) (ditto a DX7 in high school) was with a Nord Wave, where it was suddenly like oh! I don't need to artificially create an overtone series? I really love the pairing of FM oscillators and analog filters, the Mutable stuff has been super fun. A friend of mine has a... Wave, PPG? what is it. Something like that. The big one. I played around with it but again the envelopes were mushy, it was all tone and no snap.

A studio I worked in had a CS-80 and it's not all that. When it came time for futuristic polysynth it was always the Jupiter 8-- which at this point has an equally ridiculous price tag

I know the CS-80 is mostly associated with Vangelis sounds although it is capable of more and may be not that great after all... but just look at that design! It seems like no other synth that came before and after the CS series has the same looks/design influences. As far as reliability goes.. at least it's not the PolyMoog.

Actually, now that I think about it, the Polymoog DOES share some design similarities with the CS-80

The CS-80 is surprisingly difficult to get into "dialling in" a sound, its interface isn't as intuitive later synths. Also tbrr I need MIDI or CV/gate connectivity, have the computer play the line while I work with the sound, and I don't know if that's a possibility for CS-80s (or if any owner would go for it if it was)

I don't have much use for MIDI to be honest, sitting at a computer and programming notes, I am unable to work like that (and I tried). It just doesn't give me the same kind of joy that touching a keyboard while twisting knobs does. But it's helpful when I need to synchronize several synthesizers.

You can also buy a MIDI kit for your CS-80 at a bargain price of 470 £!

Hmm, I get you. My process is this: typically I dial in a sound, record the take simultaneously as MIDI info and as audio, then save the patch (if applicable). When the song develops and suddenly I realize the synth is too glassy or too dark or whatever, or just wrong, I just feed the already-recorded MIDI info back into the synth and fix the patch in realtime. Not so fastidious, just an easy way to make changes.

A side note to this is that I've gotten so enamoured of my ARP 2600 that I rarely use any analog poly synths, I typically track each voice monophonically using MIDI-to-CV. The signal-to-noise on the ARP is so ridiculously low that you can track 10+ tracks of it and still have silence (provided you keep the spring muted). I love my ARP. I bought it with the money from a soul-destroying film gig several years ago, best decision ever-- though I'm told the Cwejman 2600alike is just as good/better (and cheaper and easier to service)

I usually dial in a sound, play along to the track and slightly change the settings until it fits in well, record (often with a metronome) and hope for a good take or two. Sounds risky and not as professional as your method, but personally I don't like having all these "safety nets" while working on creative stuff. Having this slight tenseness helps me concentrate and evaluate certain synth sounds, mixes and parts more. Like, every part you record could be the last one of your life.

The ARP 2600 is awesome and I wish I could own one. In fact, I wish I could own every classic monosynth. I'm more of a poly guy anyway, although in our multi-tracking DAW age monophonic synthesizers work just as well for me.

Speaking of awesome monosynths, Soviet synthesizers are rarely talked about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IMpElp0a_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rceP4hDkXi4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYEYzPW6mes

i was digital only for a few years but i'm getting into using analog synths more and more. it's baby steps, but i've been using a Microbrute (running straight audio) and i just got the Korg Volca Keys (controlled via MIDI).

i know a lot of dudes who are more into messing around with old gear and than they are into making records and i never want to be that, so i'm just getting hardware when i'm having a specific sound that i'm not satisfied with the digital version of.

speaking of, i really do think they both have their place...soft synths can sometimes cut through a mix much more easily.

haven't messed around with FM synthesis yet but i really want to, probably going to get NI FM8 to learn on.

"Always appreciate all kinds of synths and syntheses." - Synthfucius

Speaking of digital synths and new purchases - I'm about to get a Yamaha AN1x for 250 €. Way underrated VA synth in my opinion. And even if I don't need its sounds I can use it as a MIDI controller with velocity and aftertouch and whatnot.

Jordan, I agree with you re: creating music vs. farting around, but making bloopy shit can be fun and even cathartic sometimes.

Anyone get a Microbrute? Looks pretty sweet, especially for the price.

I use a Prodigy that someone in our practice space owns, and I love it, but the newer Moog stuff is $$.

I also just bought Korg Gadget for my iPad mini, which is pretty neat. I cannot find a software synth that comes close to sounding as good as the Prodigy, though.

Whoops just saw your post Jordan. What do you think of the Microbrute? Can you get big, squelchy sounds out of it?

i loooove it, and yes. mostly i've been using it for thick saw basslines and square-ish leads, and lfo chaos. it's very intuitive imo.

Awesome. I think I'm gonna get one. I wish it had another octave, and full-size keys, but other than that it looks sweet.

Unfortunately my main keyboard (Nord Electro) does not have pitch/mod wheels.

Also, I got to play a Jupiter 8 on our latest record, and DAMN that is fun to play.

Does anybody want to recommended sites or tutorials for gaining a practical understanding of synthesis? All I do is play with free VST synths at this point and I get the basics but I want to have a better handle on it.

Also own a Microbrute - it's brilliant. The minikeys aren't as shitty as on the MicroKorg, allowing you play quite smoothly. And it can do anything from exquisite to big and squelchy.

St3ve, check out the Synth Secrets series, should teach you a bit (start from the bottom): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Oh yeah, I had started in on those Synth Secrets articles but gotten sidetracked, thanks for reminding me.

i've had the most luck looking on youtube for either the VST i'm working with or general synthesis tutorials.

what are your favorite synths for bass sounds? that's the #1 thing I'm lacking right now. I've got an Oberheim Matrix 6 (I finally got it fixed!) which makes some really lovely & mellow sounds, and I also recently bought an MS-20 Mini but haven't done anything too ambitious with it yet.

the Matrix isn't very good for heavy tweaking on the fly though

read that as heavy twerking on the fly

uhm, I think your MS-20 mini should be able to produce some great bass sounds, although I personally don't like the KORG Sound, it's just too.. "crispy" and "defined" for my taste.

The MS-20 is a fabulous bass synth, probably the best currently-available combo going, in that regard? I always forget about it! So great.

yay for fixed matrix!

my fave bass machines are juno 60 & pro one

i'm in a snit with vintage machines at the moment though since my really fucking expensive prophet 5 hasn't worked at all since i got midi installed

Vintage synths can be so uncompromising, that's why I like them

Well, until they stop working of course.

ha. it wouldn't hurt so much if it didn't sound so incredible when it's working

Speaking of vintage synths, I just realized how much 70's and 80's library music has this sci-fi synth soundscape thing going on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di_HMqlO28E

So many broken synthesizers. ;_;

Green Day - Boulevard of Broken Synths

Actually I'm wondering: Has anyone here played a Synclavier?

no, but if i did i would make it say jammin on the one

I am fascinated/curious about what makes people say this or that synth is good for particular applications, or how to to understand the different character of different synths besides the dry technical details about oscillators and such. e.g. electricsound says he likes the Juno 60 for bass sounds but for whatever reason I associate Juno 60s more with string pads and like mini Moogs or Korg SH101s with bass sounds? Maybe those are just more obvious cliches?

Yeah, it's interesting since I always thought synths to be sonic all-rounders, even with their various configurations and designs. But maybe some people like the sonic capabilites of, let's say, an ARP Odyssey more than the capabilites of a Minimoog in terms of bass/lead/pad?/... sounds.

personally when i say the 60 is good for bass it is because it has nice snappy envelopes and very tight but not wooly low end. it can do string pads well too though, it it a p amazing machine tbh. i appreciate it even more now after five years than i did in my initial rushes of excitement when i first got it

also i have never played a minimoog or sh101

i need to step up my pad game

One day I'll type out my synth adventures but not today. I own a lot of synths. Maybe I will type it. Here we go.

Juno-106 - great entry level synth. Start here and end here if you plan to own house or children. Only issue is that the oscillators like to burn out, and replacing them involves ordering chips and soldering.

Juno-Alpha - teeny tiny, the B is velocity sensitive, super light, super durable, mine got the shit kicked out of it and it still works. There is a cool fifth- and sixth-stage on the envelopes, it's like an ADADSR, so you can make stuttery sounds. It is a pain to program. I bought a PG-300 (the programmer) from a guy who was looking at me like I was a sucker and then I sold it to somebody and understood what a sucker looks like. This takes a little effort to program properly but it's easier than a DX-7. It's good if you're somebody who needs to travel light.

Juno-60 - I think it's this one that has the miracle arpeggiator. Any time I want to do something arpeggiated I borrow one of these guys. I have never owned one but I use them a tonne. It receives clock in so you can send it pulses from Logic using beat mapper to live drum takes and have the arpeggiation stay in time. It also has CV-out so you can double it up with an ARP or a Minimoog. The "ensemble" function is famous and it sounds good, I never felt comfortable using it because any time I turn it on it's like "oh, that sound". This is a great synth and I'd own one except that I own a Jupiter 8.

Jupiter-8 - a weird synth. It's hella expensive, I bought it with a film score budget for a sci-fi movie. It is heavy (a two-person lift, really) and runs hot. The envelopes are too mushy to be really useful for percussion but they are good for bass and pads. I was working on a film where the director hated synthesizers, and he came by the house and kept asking for any noodles to be removed, he just wanted lame-ass indie piano/ukelele plunky-plunks. The Jupiter was the one exception, he loved the Jupiter. It does sound otherworldly, like The Best Synth Ever! But its arpeggiator sucks, it can't be controlled without MIDIfying it (and the kits are poorly reviewed so I haven't done it), it's not particularly routable, and it's too heavy and expensive to really be useful in any home studio. Mine is out on semi-permanent loan to a friend's studio until I get my own space for it, which will probably never happen. I don't know what to do with it, it's kind of like having a convertible in the garage.

Nords - they sound bad. There is something in that frequency spectrum that drives me crazy. Their pianos and organs sound "realistic" without sounding good, and they never sound good in a band. Nord synths are slightly better but still bad-sounding. All that said, I travel with and play a Nord Wave because it's light, it samples, the FM synths sound good, it's got built-in delay and reverb. You have to wrestle hard with these synths to make them sound good but the lightness, durability and usability makes it work it.

Nord Modular - especially these ones. Capable of sounding unbearably good. This is a DSP-run synth where you built a virtual modular on your PC and upload it into the hardware. Like, you drag and drop your modules on to an environment and connect them with patch cords. Super steep learning curve and, like other Nords, sounds terrible 99% of the time, but it worth it for that 1%. I am a thief, not a programmer, I download other people's architectures and tweak them. I have a Memorymoog clone on mine that is so precise in its emulation that it's uncanny. My Nord Modular is my DX-7 and my drum machine, what a great synth. Any time I need to do a shitty film score real quick I turn it on and the score is done.

ARP 2600 - my favourite synth ever, and the only one I use on recordings that I want to be proud of. It never sounds bad. The envelopes are enormously flexible, the CV modulation is amazing, you can build anything and get absolutely lost in creating self-generating patches. Sometimes if I have a houseguest I make a seagull + seashore patch and put it in their room. The spring is noisy but is fun to route sound through it and then back into other things. I am sending mine in to a synth spa in Savannah to get the ring modulator repaired and the connections tricked out. There is no HPF so you have to figure that out if you want to make hi-hats. There is no MIDI, but I use a lightpipe-to-CV converter; the added control of the Silent Way plug-ins is miraculous. I wish I was at home playing with this synth right now. Todd Terje says that the Cwejman S1 is just as good, better in other ways, and less expensive and that he's been using that these days instead of his ARP.

Mutable Instruments - I have a Shruthi and an Ambika. They are both totally awesome but I haven't found a use for either of them just yet.

I have a modular, too. I've lost a week of my life into creating beautiful, useless music with it, but haven't cracked it yet, made it feel like an instrument. I'll type about it another time.

the 106 is weird, i can't stand the results i get from playing one, but other people seem to be able to coax really nice things out of it

fun to use

ultimately this is what did the opsix in for me...just always found it somewhat irritating to interact with.

Stylophone Theremin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eupwp-EPMmo

Yall crazy. The Opsix rules. I get wild ass tones out of it everytime I go in for programming. The firmware update added some nice features like more sequencer program controls. I will never sell it.

They really nailed it with the Reface DX. Super fun and immediate, small and cute. That whole series is awesome. I sold mine when the Waldorf Quantum got 6-op FM. Not like FM plugs are anything new, buttttt...the Opsix plugin is only $99.

Has anyone tried the Opal synth plug-in from Fors FM? Seems to be a max-for-live device that does Elektron style sequencing. Would love to know if it's any good.

I bought it and never used it and forgot I had it until now. Thanks. Sorry I'm not more helpful.

Give it a try and report back!

have an ms-20 mini on the way for our 9 year old's birthday (shared present with my birth/fathers day). Same son has a cheap laptop, so I grabbed dexed and pedalboard/mido to work on some scripted midi/generative/transcription projects I'm hoping will be fun. FM synthesis is indeed crazy, but dexed has some decent patches built in. I'm hoping use python to set those eno patches upthread bc mouse+gui ain't the way. We will probably need a midi keyboard in case somebody wants to play chords.

this seems like it will be awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPNNkyiakns

Love the Fred's Lab Tooro lofi wavetable synth but it's a bit of a chore to program, the screen on this looks like it will be a big help

SG, I like the idea of "scripted midi/generative/transcription" stuff, but haven't been able to brew up anything really satisfying... what's your workflow like?

I've only spent a handful of hours on the scripting so far. It's a fun learning and (within family) teaching tool. I'm using pedalboard, an open source spotify project, to get multiple VST instrument objects with different patches from Dexed.vst3. There's probably better python DAW stuff for this. I wrote some defs for generating 88 piano key scales from an input song key and chords from a root note. I wrote a def with numpy.random that takes a starting index to the array of notes in a scale and a number of requested notes. It builds 8-note phrases, randomly walking away from the start, and then resets to the start note for each phrase. I put the randomness in 'EchoEcho 3' over a progression in 'Chroma 5 Y'. It sounds like preset windchimes, which I'm guessing is a common landing zone for fast versions of this sort of thing. here's example output.

you get arrays out of passing midi to the vst objects, so you can mix, fade, and sum tracks by multiplying with envelope functions and then adding the arrays together before saving or playing.

for transcription, I'm hoping there are python models that can take a recorded clip and spit out reasonable midi that I can display on the dexed gui to quickly give the kids melodies from songs they know to play. a shazam music teacher, which is simpler if the student only has a monophonic synthesizer and wants to play a melody from stardew valley or the lead from calvin harris' "bounce".

are there other awesome and free vst instruments that, like dexed, don't require making an account or jumping through other hoops? it was so refreshing to just grab it from GitHub.

U-he's Zebralette 3 is in public beta (and will be free when actually released) - spectral, additive, wavetable, kind of a steep learning curve

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607153

TAL Noisemaker is a good basic subtractive synth, sort of like a Roland Juno

https://tal-software.com/products/tal-noisemaker

thanks, these are great examples of what I'm looking for. grabbed both installers to hopefully check out this weekend.

Full bucket music has TONS, primarily virtual Korgs, including a lot of the weird ones:

https://www.fullbucket.de/music/vst.html

oh wow. that is a great resource - thanks!

attracted to the PS-3300 simulator and as luck would have it -- the real thing's on sale!

the introductions in the manuals of these FBM synths are themselves wonderful

Korg announced a reissue of the 3300 or 3100 for only a cool $12k IIRC

pedalboard doesn't seem to wrap the FB-3300 plugin properly. looking around, it seems python VST loader instrument compatibility may be an issue

is anyone else checking out the Digitakt II? I've had my eye on the Syntakt for a while because I'm more drawn to synths vs samples, but this new Digitakt is a massive upgrade. I assume there will eventually be a Syntakt II, but that probably won't be for a few years.

Thanks for the rundown SG, that seems well over my head, but also sounds like you could get some very cool results that way... (or at least have fun messing around with it...)

I'm definitely not selling my Digitakt I at the reduced prices they're going for now (though mine is old enough I'm pretty sure I bought it for $550 during a sale) but if I'm ever not broke I wouldn't be mad at getting the II for 16 channels of samples and the option of stereo samples (though I don't really miss stereo, I like subtle panning better most of the time) and the other improvements seem nice. The new filter modes with single cycle waveforms should make it even more useful than the I for a lot of synthesis tasks.

For another good free synth, forgot the DSP56300 project - Virus A/B/C and now Ti, Waldorf MicroQ emulations
https://dsp56300.wordpress.com/

You have to get firmware (widely available for the pre-TI Viruses but I had to go to a shady warez site for the Ti firmware, Waldorf has the MicroQ firmware on their site) but no account creation/etc. required

I really miss my Machine Drum, original one with the sample loading. I can't remember what I paid for it 10-12 years ago but remember it was like an impulse buy price. Staggering what they're going for now! I wouldn't want to pay that much for something that old (well not old, but aging) that might be tough to repair.

i have the SPS-1 without the sample loading. Got it the week they announced they were cancelling it and they cut the prices in half. It was like 600$ new. They blew them out. Then the prices started rising.

yeah! I think I paid like 500. Honestly I could maybe almost imagine paying 2k if I was positive it wouldn't crap out and be unfixable someday.

does anyone have any advice on _EXTREMELY CHEAP_ MIDI foot controllers? under $100 but actually works? doesn't need to have a million features, just needs to be able to trigger/send MIDI to my 404A. my use case is that one group i play in uses the 404A for drum machine and occasional samples, and it would be really handy to be able to trigger those with my foot instead of reaching over for a tiny pad. also, i'm often doing weird stuff on multiple instruments, drums, etc, and being able to start and stop a sampler pad would be very useful and open up some possibilities, i think.

has anyone here done something like that, and do you have any recommendations or other ways to go about it?

damn, u/65TwinReverbRI has me covered in their answer here
https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/uif6f0/foot_midi_controller_for_triggering_sampler_pads/

Guitar Center took in a used Melbourne Nina - the magnetic/motorized knobs are a gimmick but it's a great gimmick. Watching them turn when you move the morph knob is cool, always know where knob settings are with presets. Fine detail (trying to dial in 100 cents of fine tuning or something) was tough but I assume there's a shift modifier I didn't know about to make that easier.

I fell for the instagram ads (a first for me?) for Slate + Ash's Cycles plugin (for Kontakt) and started messing around with it over the weekend. It's certainly interesting, but it's a lot harder to get decent results with the sequencer than I expected. Seems very dependent on the material you're putting in - their sample presets work very well, but sometimes it doesn't seem to know what to do with drum loops that I put into it. But on the other hand it's been great as a sound processor/resampler for one-shots, its pitch shifting algorithm plus the crazy formant shifter (you can put it up to 400%, whatever that means) alone can get some really gritty, souped up tones.

I wanted something where I can feed in samples and get back unpredictable results, and it's certainly that, I just wish it could be unpredictable in the way I want it to, lol. Maybe I just need to watch some more tutorials (or like, read the documentation?).

I'm also curious about this Visco plugin, which bills itself as a sample-morphing drum machine. Mostly it seems like you can do all of that by automating other plugins, and I'm pretty over all of these new "all-in-one" combo plugins. On the other hand, the sample-based sequencer looks really sick.

Ok I'm liking Cycles more as I'm using it with harmonic material, and 'cycling' through the presets (not the sample presets, just the different loop and granular modes) rather than trying to construct from scratch, although that's worth doing too.

Also I got Visco and it is for real, it rules. Mostly for sound design that morphs between two different samples, and for the sequencer (very easy to use, and I like the random timing and swing options). It seems built around the internal sequencer rather than midi - quite weird to have a track with nothing on it (ie it doesn't even require any midi input) playing all this crazy shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5fWPBOdrY8

this experimental/still in alpha DAW is interesting - the workflow of manipulating sounds directly on the timeline is what I expected DAWs to be before I knew how anything worked. $3/mo subscription on Patreon to get in on the alpha downloads but it seems like a total "I wish I was Burial" playground.

Blockhead looks very cool! Thanks for the tip.

I found this thing while looking for Blockhead info...

https://www.cantorlooper.com

...not crazy about the interface, but looks fun to play, and it's free!

The new Moog poly sounds great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmYrB4Cg4Sw

https://surge-synthesizer.github.io

...this one looks like a beast...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohoQeAuSopM

I think this is hilarious, honestly more humor than I would have expected from TE

It's a paint job and some medieval samples. Could be funny if TE don't charge a premium for it on top of the standard unit. But I'm not TE's target audience anyway. I'm much more looking forward to AudioPilz' review video (presumably dropping this Friday).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvCxIeZqQ40

I’m honestly tempted but I know I could just sample a bunch of early music into my Digitakt with almost zero effort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgYEuJ5u1K0

I bet if TE released a Monty Python version it would sell like hot cakes.

https://github.com/iftah-og/Synthesizers-1896-2024

This repository contains an analysis of hardware synthesizers, samplers, and drum machines. The project focuses on exploring trends in electronic music devices, highlighting the evolution of these instruments and the various features they offer. It aims to provide insights into the development of these devices over time, using attributes such as synthesis types, polyphony, and production duration to name a few.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mehCDLtvRuk

love my Nymphes despite elements of the UI being awful (have to use the knob switch menu system to put a LFO on PWM), $350 for a USB powered Korg Polysix is crazy, this looks like it could be the Super Nymphes

teenage engineering KOII on sale for $219 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1763136-REG/teenage_engineering_te032as001_ep_133_ko_ii.html

that's a good deal, now I'm kind of wondering what else might be out there post-holidays