This will be the thread wherein I bang on about donor insemination, gory details included where relevant

I'm keeping this in TMI, as I'm not sure people-making has the same audience, even though people-making is pretty much the point.

A bit of background: following the breakup of my marriage, in which my husband's reluctance to have kids played a complicated but definite role, I attempted to reinvent myself. I shacked up with a beautiful young man, dizzy with freedom and unsure whether growing up and settling down was quite what I wanted after all, and was surprised to find myself quietly delighted when he said he wanted a family.

So for a few years that was the plan, but the beautiful young man slowly turned into a curmudgeonly hat-hating goblin, and eventually the goblin decided it probably didn't want a family after all. I was sure he would recover, and make a wonderful dad, but he couldn't see it. A childless future with a goblin did not appeal much.

For six months, while he thought it over, I researched the possibility of going it alone. In March, that became the only path open to me, and, well, here I am shopping for spunk on the internet. There've been twists and turns along the way, but too much to tell right now.

as in, shopping for a cryobank, or shopping for a donor/donation?

can ILX come up with a suitable ILXor donor in <5000 posts???

Hat hating! My word.

Shopping for a donor/ donation.

Relationship having deteriorated for several reasons, not just the baby issue (his casual attitude to the truth, disinterest in sex, etc), I wanted to make sure goblin boy wasn't going to cost me my last chance at motherhood.

I started out by talking to my GP, who said that there were various things they could do to help me along if I had fertility issues, but at 38 and with no chap in tow, they boiled down essentially to testing for STDs. He even wrote to the local NHS fertility clinic, and they wrote back saying no way dude, we don't fund single chicks to get up the duff.

Goblin boy offered to pretend to be involved, until the GP told us that the first thing they'd want to do was a sperm count, which apparently was a bridge too far.

It felt like a real kick in the teeth to've been let down by two men AND the NHS, but on the other hand I've always thought spending public money on adding more people to our overcrowded world was bonkers, so I had to take that one on the chin.

After 35, the downward curve of average fertility rates goes rapidly from a gentle slope to the kind of thing you wouldn't ski down unless you're the sort of nutter who likes getting dropped onto the mountain out of a helicopter. I had to do something; I googled.

a friend of mine recently got herself a donor...on craigslist

Wow, I hadn't thought of that! Is it working out for her?

Googling was a bit depressing. There aren't many clinics in the UK that acknowledge the possibility that people looking for help might not be heterosexual couples.

One exception is the London Women's Clinic, who have offices in Cardiff as well as London, which seemed like a good idea for me as I was living 50/50 between London & Bristol. More importantly, their website shouts loud about single women and lesbian couples, and they run regular events called Inseminars (see what they did there) where you can find out more. There was one coming up at the Alternative Families show - this was last November - so I pootled along to see what was what.

Can ILX come up with a donor in less than 6 hours?! I'm determined to order some spermatozoa today, but a pi-reciting baby would be aces.

Up until very recently I seem to remember the NHS had some kind of guideline regarding IVF treatment that a "father figure" had to be involved or something.. ?!

(Which may be why many clinics have been slow to "acknowledge the possibility that people looking for help might not be heterosexual couples.")

i got a vasectomy a week ago so unfortunately i cannot help from a donor standpoint

christov vasjekotmi

... but seriously, I wish you best of luck with this zora :) x

Wikipedia entry on donor insemination (pretty thorough)

Conceivable Ideas - The Guardian

BBC article

Also a long article from the BBC Health web site, with links -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/fertility/fertility_treatments.shtml

This ought to be only slightly more logistically complex than compiling results of a top-20 ballot poll. OK, maybe it's a bit more complicated, but still readily possible. Here's what I would do:

1. Post a description of your predicament on the "Sex Droughts" thread. If you're comfortable doing so, include your general vacinity.
2. Request that any male UK ILXers interested in helping you try to conceive, and in doing so end said drought, contact you via webmail link, including their location, availability, and any other info you deem relevent.
3. Sort through your responses and determine which are within a half-hour drive or tube ride from you.
4. If there are several suitable candidates within range, do a search on their recent ILM posts. Choose the one with the best musical tastes.
5. Using an ovulation predictor kit if needed, determine which night in your cycle you are at peak fertility. This £50 conception kit will also increase your success rate.
6. Arrange to meet prospective donor for tea. If he seems reasonable and trustworthy, invite him over for the night and have at it. (if he doesn't, contact runner-up)
7. Repeat as necessary each <> 28 days.

But first, be very careful about the legal situation concerning liability of biological fathers in your jurisdiction. (In the US, it varies tremendously by state; I know little of UK law in this area). Also would test for STDs/STIs.

And BTW I'm glad you dumped Goblin Boy - anyone with a "casual attitude toward the truth" isn't someone you want to raise a child with.

Oh. This thread is interesting.

I'm a regular ILXor posting, I hope, anonymously. If it turns out that I've messed this up, could a mod edit it?

About a year ago I signed up for sperm donation. It was something I'd wanted to do for most of my life - it felt strange to be sitting in Harley Street, reading about the shortage of donors, and marveling how something so unlikely and wonderful could possibly be short of volunteers. I talked about it with my wife, a lot. I went through blood tests and sperm assessments.

I wrote a letter that the kid would see at eighteen. It made me sound like a minor villain in a novel of swashbuckling romance. I wrote another one.

I remember the feeling that the thing was done.

One week later, I got a call saying that a mistake had been made, that I wasn't eligible after all. They hadn't thought to look for it, as it's extremely rare in people of my ethnic background, but I have sickle cell trait - it's benign, but if I were to be matched with someone else with the same trait, a child could have sickle cell disease, so that was essentially that. I asked if they could screen, and they said they couldn't.

It changed the way I saw things, a little bit. I went from seeing myself as having some sort of wonder-DNA into seeing myself as just another person. That was probably a good thing, all in all, but it was a hard pill to swallow.

Anyway. Temporary address pi✧✧✧@mailina✧✧✧.c✧✧, if you'd like to talk about this sort of thing.

I considered it too - thought it would be an easy way to make $1,000 or so. I drove out to the place - an utterly anonymous little place that looked like a doctor or dentist office. This was in about 1995. They told me only about 5% of applicants prove eligible - the costs of assisted reproduction treatments are too high to chance using anything but near-perfect specimens.

I decided against it because I had serious ethical qualms with the clinic - they only allowed married women to receive their AI services, and I wasn't going to do business with anyone who discriminated against single women (or lesbians, who weren't allowed to marry each other in any US state at the time). Years later, I learned that they hated that restriction too but had to do it for legal reasons - if a single woman in that state had a child and I was the biological father, I could be found liable for child support payments and such, whereas a married woman's husband was the default legal parent no matter who the biological father was. That law was ancient, predating DNA tests to establish paternity or modern assisted reproduction technologies. The law has since been changed, and the clinic now offers their services to singles.

(Oh, that address posted blocked - try piato at gmx dot com)

Hat-hating!

does that describe actual behavior or is it just an epithet?

Uh, ok not hats per se, but me in hats. I've related this story elsewhere on ILX, but essentially at a certain emotionally charged and critical moment I asked him if he still found
me attractive and he said he thought I looked ugly in hats. And he wasn't joking. Bless his tactless little heart.

I don't know if this is considered inappropriate to ask and if I'm gonna get ripped apart for bringing it up, but.... have you considered adoption?

no harm intended obviously

Not inappropriate or harmful IMO, but for the next year or two I'd think it would be far less expensive and troublesome to conceive herself (given that only advancing age seems to be an issue as opposed to reproductive system issues) wouldn't it. Adoption can get troublesome and expensive, unless (kind of the same thing) you have someone you know who has a baby they can't raise themselves that you can adopt.

There's something really wrong with the world that adoption is an expensive exercise :(

Hi guys,

Yes I've given it some thought. For now I'm gunning for donor insemination partly because I (selfishly) want to experience pregnancy for myself and partly because the barriers to adoption are high. As a single woman, no permanent job, not a homeowner... I can't see it being easy.

As for ILX donor polling, that's cute. But I wouldn't dare! What if nobody volunteered?

Also, in the UK the natural father always has parental responsibility unless the insemination is AI and is performed in a registered clinic, and even then, a case can be made. I have considered asking friends, and shied away from it for this reason. More on that when I'm not confined to iPhone.

To present another outside option, it's totally possible to just have sex with someone and get pregnant and just not tell him. I personally know one great little kid who came into the world this way. : )

Obviously that could put you into a tricky predicament if your mom and dad want to meet the father or whatever, but if you don't feel stigmatized about it, then great!

There's a bunch of reasons why I didn't want to do that! Though I may yet have to try it; first IUI today and deal is getting expensive.

> As for ILX donor polling, that's cute. But I wouldn't dare! What if nobody volunteered?

Then you still wouldn't be any worse off than if you didn't try it at all.... it's the legal issues you mentioned that are more bothersome for me.

These things are highly subjective but I feel like I would be worse off, emotionally! And in terms of elapsed time, which is u&k.

Anyways, this cycle is done, it was uncomfortable and weird but it's done. Now I wait 14 days to find out if it worked. The stats on success rates are frustratingly vague, putting the chance per cycle at somewhere between 6 and 26%. The clinic's own figures are not encouraging for single women, who have a lower hit rate than women in couples, be they gay or straight. Nobody knows why. Still, you never know.

Interesting.

Anyway - good luck! I hope it . . . sticks!

:D

Here's hoping you'll be posting in the Knocked Up Roll-Call sometime soon-ish.

^^ indeed! Hope it works out Zora!

(giggling still over ENBB's pun hehe)

woah wait am i not following this thread correctly? youve already got a donor?

good luck!

gl zora

good luck for real

Thank you, all! Gr80, I ordered sperms from a bank in Denmark on Thursday. I do want to go back and mull over the experience (everything from the beginning) but I'm stupidly busy so I don't know when.

woah so they just mail it to you and you're on your own?

can i order this danish to go pls

> woah so they just mail it to you and you're on your own?

Evidently not, as in the UK the biological father would be liable as the legal father if a woman do DIY inseminations, and apparently this can not be overruled by the donor and recipient signing a legal document. And as previously mentioned, the NHS discriminates against singles and lesbian couples. There was a case a few years back where the Child Support Agency ruled that a donor had to pay child support maintenance when a a lesbian civil partnership who was raising his biological child subsequently broke down. No, they want every hopeful mother-to-be (well, at least those with male partners willing to assume legal fatherhood) to visit a registered clinic for every donor recipient, and wants the medical establishment to make money off of infertile women - despite a severe shortage of donors with all the new recent restrictions. Mind you, there are some advantages that go along with the costs - screening for genetic disorders and such, but it shouldn't be the only option. It stinks. I thought it was bad enough in the US, but the UK regulations are ridiculous and cruel. Does the UK gov't plan to start subjecting ordinary blokes looking to conceive a child with their wife, make them go through a battery of tests to make sure their DNA is worthy, motility checks, etc., etc., first or something, before they're allowed to start a family, the way they do with private donors?

I have a friend who had a baby after years of trying using this conception cap, a low-cost, low-tech DIY kit that succeeded after several rounds of expensive treatments failed. This one is geared toward AI, whereas the one I linked to in my earlier 17 aug post is for NI. Also, I'm not sure about UK availability of this cap kit, but they do ship internationally. I have another friend, the one I referred to in another thread, currently using the conception cap along with about 3 quick-frozen, quick-thawed specimens from her donor (who's also a close friend and my main source for this information). They actually started with NI once a month during predicted ovulation, but are now trying to boost their chances by using AI as well via the conception cap (note: men need about 5 days to produce a high-sperm-count sample, thus thawing 3 or 4 samples collected every 5 days in the prior month for her to use over 2 days). They're going on 4 months with no pregnancy yet - she's a few years younger than you, her husband is nearly infertile though so they turned to a donor after years of trying expensive treatments themselves - but are hopeful.

Do you know anything about your donor, or have assurance it's from who you think it is, if it is shipped to you? (from what I've heard/read, this is sometimes not the case, occasionally even with registered.

Ah, nothing I can do really. Except wish you luck along with everyone else here. Don't worry about the statistics you cited earlier, about lower pregnancy rates in coupled vs. single women. Common sense dictates it shouldn't matter much in and of itself; it's important to understand that a statistical correlation between A and B doesn't mean A causes B. Couplehood correlates with so many other things, and one or more of those is probably the real factor increasing their fertility, not that they are coupled. One thing is for sure - your chances will be higher afterward than before. Here's hoping for the best!

(p.s. please excuse my ineloquence and inept writing it's 4:30am EDT...)

No worries.

As Lee surmises, they UPS the sperm to the UK fertility clinic, who then defrost it, wash or re-wash it and perform the IUI. At great expense, natch.

how much do you know about your donor?

pretty sure the UPS driver is the biological father in most of these cases

hey frogbs is on this thread now

http://www.jonco48.com/blog/Froggy.jpg

> pretty sure the UPS driver is the biological father in most of these cases

There was a much-publicized case in the US about 10 years ago where a highly-credentialed guy at a fertility clinic secretly decided to use his own sperm rather than the donor sperm patients thought they were receiving. He wound up having about 75 biological kids. Don't remember his name, but do remember a Saturday Night Live skit about the incident.

> they UPS the sperm to the UK fertility clinic, who then defrost it, wash or re-wash it and perform the IUI. At great expense, natch.

That's what annoys me, the "great expense" bit, when there are inexpensive/free ways to accomplish the same thing. The washing and careful selection etc. are worthwhile services. But they should be optional.

It's like the UK gov't (and some states in the US) believe fertile women have the right to become pregnant for free, but those who have trouble conceiving should have to pay thousands for same (or to adopt as well). Insane.

http://www.timescolonist.com/health/fresh+semen+online+warns+Health+Canada/5324386/story.html

Gbx they have all - GP, my aunt the midwife, hospital just now, counted from last period. Don't ask me why!

good luck and hugs, z.

yes, all best wishes to you, zora.

Thank you. The bleeding has stopped but I'm now getting terribly painful cramping, this seems to me like it's backwards for a miscarriage but what do I know, nuffin. Monday seems a dreadful long way off.

Seems like bleeding first and cramping afterwards is usual, ho hum. I've been (mostly) distracting myself with Skyrim and a spot of aspirational house-hunting, it's three in the morning, and I'm feeling more... zen. Thanks again everyone for the support. (hugs)

Damn, just seen this. Everyone has said it all, so I will just think it. <3

Another day, another a&e department. This one has 7 signs up saying Switch off all Mobile Phones, but one saying ok, we understand you need to use your mobile phone. I'm going with that one.

The pain has coalesced on the right hand side, so there's a chance it's ectopic. Even if not the pain is so bad now I'll be gobsmacked if I'm not miscarrying.

My dad, who is trying to stand in for my late mother as well as my lacking partner, has come with me, seems more scared than I am. That's cool; it gives me someone to be strong for.

Are they seeing you soon?

Stay strong Zora, sending a shedload of good vibes over to you

Keeping my fnigres corssed for (wtf? had no idea this even existed)

I've been taken to a room of my own, they've relieved me of some bodily fluids and palpated my tummy, and gone away leaving me to snooze and pa to read and eat grapes. So far the only feedback I've had is that my blood sugar's low, so I've had some grapes too. Waiting...

I had a pear in solidarity. :( <3 <3

Mmm, pear.

Finally got seen by a gynae, cervix still closed, no sign of blood now, mucho tenderness. They want me to stay overnight so they can scan me ASAP. Boring but it's also quite a relief just to be in their hands with no decisions to make. Sad my sister won't be with me for the scan like we planned.

I've sent pa off to his pop concert, wish I'd brought a decent book to read! The one I've got could provide 1000 posts worth of fodder for the Grammar Fiends.

Whatcha reading?

It's space opera, I picked it up at a con after chatting to the author, so I won't embarrass him by naming the book! Writers are terrible vanity surfers.

So. Consultant decided to send me home and have me back in 1st thing Monday for the scan. My blood hcg is only 347 where it should be at least 1100, which is consistent with miscarriage OR an ectopic pregnancy. She said there is a slim chance it could be viable but we just have to corss our fnigres.

Hopefully just a dramatic baby looking for attention! I'm rooting for ya, lady. xoxo

Have the most relaxing Sunday you can possibly muster. People are to bring you all manner of fruits and your reading matter is to be grammatically impeccable.

Also, wear a hat at all times because everyone on ILX thinks you look great wearing them. (take that, hat hating man!)

Most folks know from sandbox, but just in case anyone stumbles across this thread and is of a disposition that can't tolerate cliffhangers-

The scan showed zip, nada, nothing at all. As if I'd never been pregnant. I had already lost almost all hope of there being a viable fetus so it was actually a relief because it meant no ectopic (5 women a year still die from ectopic pregnancies o.O) and also no D&C. D&C, as I said on sandbox, stands for Dilation and Curettage and is basically a good old scrape to make sure there's no fetal material left in the uterus, as this can cause serious infections.

The day of the scan was wierdly great. I felt the best I'd felt in ages and I had the whole day to hang out in London with my sister and no kids, which never happens. We shopped, met my dad at the V&A and had tea, and had supper at the Queen's Arms (great little pub in South Ken, check it out if you haven't been).

Tuesday the kid sister had to go back to her brood and ofc that's when the REAL pain started, and I spent another 4 days in bed, bleeding and sulking. Sometimes, when there was nobody around, I bellowed in pain like a dying animal. Whitman had his barbaric yawp, I my direful, barbaric moo.

Now it's like it was a night terror or something. It happened, but not quite in *this* world. Occasionally I cry, but I cry at Christmas anyway (it's not that long since my mum turned up her toes.)

I'm not sure whether I'll go back to the clinic or not. I'm over that birthday hurdle now and it feels like it would be very reasonable to stop. I've been told to let 2 periods happen before trying again anyhow, and it took 8 weeks for the first to come so I've got a while yet before there's a decision to make.

oh zora, i'm so sorry this isn't going the way you had hoped. keep yr chin up and all that <3

Some time to not-think sounds a good idea. I can imagine your possible states of mind during those four days, and massive kudos for getting through them.

Hiya, Zo! Grief is a thing that can eat you. I'm glad you survived it! I'm sorry the fertility treatments didn't turn out the way you wanted so much and that the struggle has been long.

Thank you, all. I'm doing OK, keeping busy, trying to come up with positive plans for the future and so on. The not-thinking is lovely, cause I haven't got to say 'never' just yet, I can just have a rest.

*revive*

I'm shopping for spermz again. Feels 90% like flogging a dead horse, but if it stops me from randomly bursting into tears, I'm doing it.

Wishing you all the luck Zora

Thank you!

This time I'm only telling ILX. I can't face putting my family and friends through any more angst on my behalf when the chances of success are - what was that maths word - epsilon?

Of course success would screw up my creative retreat plans royally, and I'm genuinely distressed at that, so as a silver lining it seems to be working.

(In my head I'm picturing a kind of silvery safety net, with images of daisy-studded lawns and book-lined rooms with high ceilings.)

All the best Zora. I admire your persistence in this, I really do.

It's not persistence
it's the path of least resistance

Good luck, Z. I understand what you mean about not telling anyone. Friends of mine recently adopted a baby and after two adoptions that fell through last minute they didn't tell anyone this time until they got the call that the mom was in labor and they were on their way to the airport.

Well, I won't pretend to know better, but imho it takes a lot of strength to go and try it again.

If anyone is super-bored or feeling curious about donor catalogues these are on my shortlist:

http://www.londonspermbankdonors.com/product_p/db14.htm
http://www.londonspermbankdonors.com/product_p/lsb%2049.htm
http://www.londonspermbankdonors.com/product_p/lsb-87.htm
http://www.londonspermbankdonors.com/product_p/lsb%2040.htm

The Nigerian man the staff were raving about is sold out again. /sigh

...this is so wierd.

i like donor 14!

I like them all! But that's why they're on my shortlist.

It must be obvious I've never seen a website like that, but I o_O and chuckled at the quantity field being exactly like, say, amazon.

xp I like the first and second one. If you would express your interest, will they send you photographs? Or is that a big no-no?

They won't. It's odd - the Danish one has baby pictures you can see online, the American ones charge you an outrageous sum to see pictures, these guys will show you a pencil sketch but only - I think, this is a new thing - after you buy.

Wait, a pencil sketch of... himself? You would be in for a pretty bad shock if I was the donor because you'd be getting a stick figure or possibly a smiley face

This is due to my artistic skills, btw, not any need for anonymity :)

Lies, it is because you are a stick man with a smiley face! Confess it!

I've been found out!

Mwaahahhaha.

I think they have a professional artist; they make a fuss about how donor 70 is doing his own.

Yikes I'd be afraid to donate to this place, lest they write mean stuff about me in the "staff impressions"

I like 70. - anyone whose interests and hobbies are "people" wins me over. Plus he's a musician!

Best of luck this time, Z

Oh, they never say anything mean, they are sales professionals! Don't forget this fizz comes in at £850 a straw.

!

Good luck, Zora!

Blimey! Pencil sketches? Good luck, Zora, I hope this works out, and wish you the strength to deal with the bumpy emotional ride again.

emphasis on "bump"

Very best of luck Zora. When I was in the UK in January I kept seeing the cheery and upfront logo of the LSB on the tube and though of you!

Thanks gang.

Those cheery adverts really get up my nose. They make it look so safe! So easy! As if you are just popping in and buying a smily new baby. Grrr.

I like this guy!

http://www.londonspermbankdonors.com/product_p/lsb%2029.htm

xp - the ads I saw were targeting donors. Yeah, I can imagine that the ads for the service itself to women might smooth over an awful lot.