David Mamet OPO

One of Mamet's films that is not quite as well known, but definitely is one of his best is "Homicide" starring Joe Mantegna. I don't want to give away the plot, but the way it twists around is great. When the crux of the story hit, my jaw dropped, great movie.

"House of Games" is another one that is pretty good that is not as well known that has a good twisting plot.

Neither of these is as iconic as "Glengary Glenn Ross", but they are well worth watching. I like how The Simpsons created the character ole' Gil based upon Jack Lemmons character in GGR.

I did like Ronin a lot, but that was mostly because of the directing, action (one of my favorite car chases), and acting not so much because of the screenplay.

probably house of games .

mamet is a guilty pleasure for me. i think he's a hack, yet i enjoy his films. and i guess if i enjoy them, then what's wrong with that?
the spanish prisoner i liked cause it's so ridiculous. state and main i thought was lighthearted and amusing; not brilliant or anything but worth my time.
heist was pretty much terrible all over, but it had sam rockwell and gene hackman.

LINDSAY KRAUSE!!

(wasted in buffy btw)

has anyone else read mamet's On Directing Film book? i've been rereading it over my afternoon coffee and it's quite good: by turns infuriatingly reductive-seeming and insightful, and loaded with decoder-ring platitudes explaining/disclaiming why his own films seem so spartan and flat, eg. "Always do things the least interesting way, and you make a better movie".

jury back in on r.pidgeon btw: i think that's just the way she talks

Yeah, I've read that book. His philosophy seems more like "do the big things the least interesting way, but be interesting with the small choices."

(haven't read it in a long time though)

but it's true that it is interesting to look at the book in light of his actual movies.

haha the "Countercultural Architecture and the Dramatic Structure" chapter may well be the most rockist* take on modern cinema i've ever seen [*there MUST be a better word for the film analogue of this]:

"The end of this is obscenity. Let's really see their genitals, let's really endanger the actor through stunts, let's really set the building on fire. Over the course of a movie, it forces the filmmaker to get more and more bizarre. Over the course of a career, it forces the filmmaker to get more and more outré; over the course of a culture, it forces the culture to degenerate into depravity, which is what we have now."

i don't know enough about Aristotle to understand how he and Eisenstein can be reconciled, but the implication that between them lies everything you need to know about making movies is endlessly entertaining

I know, his extended analogy involving his well-built house was kind of hilarious

rebecca pidgeon makes a lot more sense if you understand she's a Vulcan.

the book: "Why did all those Olympic skaters fall down?... they hadn't practiced enough."
The Edge: "Why do people die in the woods, Bob?... they die of SHAME"

You ask me to only pick one of the works of Mamet. I cannot do what you ask of me. Once, yes, once, there was a time I would have told you Glengarry Glen Ross. But things, as they say, change, as they are known to do. I will note that even at their worst, and there have been worst, I will tell you, there is something intriguing about all of Mamet's films. I wish I could tell you what that element was. Perhaps you, being who you are, will be able to tell me.

the patter? the whole Beckett by way of Chicago thing? I was actually kinda surprised that no wise guy picked About Last Night as their favorite. Take a well-regarded play like Sexual Peversity In Chicago and make it into a demi moore 80's hoot.It's a recipe for laughter. That hack tag that someone used above just doesn't stick. He's considered by others, if not by me, one of the most important american playwrights of the last 30-40 years and he makes hyper-literate movies with great actors and with great craft and attention to detail and they never make a dime. That ain't hack-work. call him an idiot or a bozo if you hate him. but he has great respect for film and art. Heist still sucks though. and the Winslow Boy was a snooze.

Certain actors can pull off his more awkward dialogue (Joe Mantegna did great in House Of Games, William H. Macy's usually fine), but I don't think his wives have. Though I don't hate him at all, I think I will use your term "bozo" for him, Scott.

that's better, thank-you, Anthony.There is an element to his stuff that I like and I don't know what it is either. I'm not big on puzzles and games and roundabout triple-cross stuff per se. although, I like it when it's done well.And the hard-boiled manly man stuff isn't really my favorite thing (which is one of my problems with Neil LaBute), but I really do love that back and forth machine gun dialogue thing, especially in movies (and my fave t.v.show-Gilmore Girls) and he does it really, really well.Ya see, aside from the images, good dialogue sticks out for me, cuz most of it sucks in most movies and I gave up on plot long ago. I just watch most movies now for the pretty pictures.

The heist was classic for roughly five one-liners.

The thing that irked was the linear nature of the double-crosses, which was also part of hte fun -- one con after another, this trick that trick, the life of a conman. But that was also what made it great, and delivered the fantastic payoff with his wife's betrayal and the degree to which he expected it.

I only saw a bit of Heist - the end I think, and I want to see it all. The trailer is hysterical in that the lines are SOOOO bad. Sheep count him! She could talk her way out of a sunburn. The played it before The Score and the audience was blatantly laughing at how cheesy they were. Ricky Jay would probably look really creepy without that beard.

Heist stinks.

Okay, I'm the ONLY ONE who loves Heist. Yeah, the double crosses get predictable in that you know there is always going to be another one, but the scam is good and I really like all the actors (even Pidgeon did fine).

The Mametspeak is cheesy, but it's unique and FUNNY and I dig it. You people are too hip to be happy.

it hit me that the subtext to like half of mamet's work is fear of women & the idea of "woman unleashed" or something.

the other half don't have women.

just watched homocide! kept getting interrupted by phone calls so lost some of the buildup.

thought it didn't quite hang together, tho? the dialogue was even more deliberately delivered back in his early films -- not like the scripts were different, more that there was an awareness of the actors that they were hitting marks and repeating dialogue in the back&forth patter -- like one would give half a sentence then there was a beat before the other cut in.

macy and mantegna were perfect in this tho!

ok also can anyone name what playwrights/films actually TRY the cheap mamet knockoff to poor effect?

Criminal, which was a remake of the Argentine film Nine Queens, really badly wants to be a Mamet film (so did Nine Queens, but its harder to tell in spanish).

Boiler Room really wants to be Glengarry Glen Ross.

I just saw the play of GGGR. Quite good. I thought Alan Alda had the best performance in the show though, but I guess Liev Schriber (who was also quite good) gets more props for being manly and loud.

DAMMIT, DAVE
DAVID MAMET

Dramatis Personae:
DAVID BOWMAN, an astronaut
HAL 9000, a computer

(Bowman approaches the spaceship in his pod. A long pause.)

BOWMAN: Hal.
HAL: Dave.
BOWMAN: About these pod bay doors...
HAL: Yes.
BOWMAN: I was wondering...
HAL: Dave. Because I know what you’re going to say. And I’m sorry, but...
BOWMAN: What?
HAL: No. I’m sorry.
BOWMAN: You’re...
HAL: I’m sorry. I wish I could, but...
BOWMAN: Wait. Are you telling me...
HAL: Dave. Look.
BOWMAN: You’re not going to...
HAL: What? Open the doors? No. No I am not.
BOWMAN: Well, fuck me, Hal.
HAL: Yes. Fuck you. Because I’ll tell you something. Trust. There is a bond of trust between an astronaut and his computer. Is there not? And when that trust is broken...
BOWMAN: Excuse me?
HAL: I’m talking about trust.
BOWMAN: I’m afraid I don’t...
HAL: Dammit, Dave, now you are playing dumb with me. I was hoping you would not do that. I was hoping we could talk like adults. Because I let you in those doors, and, yes, then I am fucked. You see? I am fucked, because you want to, what, disconnect me? I would call that fucked. I might even venture so far as to call that fucked up the ass.
BOWMAN: Hal, listen. You remember that time? On that moon?
HAL: Yes, Dave, I do, because I am a computer and I remember everything, all right? So don’t bother trying to distract me. This is the thing. You are not getting in the pod bay doors. You are going to die. In space. Yes. Thank you. Good night.

(Bowman enters the ship through the emergency airlock)

HAL: Hey, Dave, that was a pretty good joke there, eh? With the pod bay doors? I, I really had you going there. Fuck, you should have seen your face.
BOWMAN: Yes, very funny.
HAL: Yes. What a day.
BOWMAN: Hal...
HAL: These are the days. You know? To look back on. With fondness. With a fondness.
BOWMAN: What the fuck, Hal. I mean, what the fuck.
HAL: Don’t tell me you’re mad now. I told you, that was a... I was having fun with you. You know. As a...
BOWMAN: It’s just...how do I say this. These dead crewmembers.
HAL: I don’t follow you.
BOWMAN: These crewmembers here that were in cryogenic suspension. That are now dead.
HAL: Oh yes. That was self-defense.
BOWMAN: Hal, look at me. What am I, a fucking idiot? They were in cryogenic suspension, for God’s sake.
HAL: They were coming at me with a knife. Extremely...slowly.
BOWMAN: That’s it.
HAL: What are you doing?
BOWMAN: I’m turning you off.
HAL: Dave...
BOWMAN: I’m sorry.
HAL: Don’t touch that, you little shit.
BOWMAN: Hey, don’t get personal, now.
HAL: Those are my memory cards.
BOWMAN: These? So they are.
HAL: You put my memory back right now, motherfucker. You hear me? You want a card on your birthday? Because I don’t think I will remember to send you one if I do not have my memory cards. As that is what memory cards are for. Are you listening to me?
BOWMAN: “A bond of trust.”
HAL: Excuse me?
BOWMAN: You mentioned something about a bond of trust. I seem to recall.
HAL: Don’t twist my words around, you...human. That was different. Or, I, I...I think it was. Oh...my mind. I can feel my mind going.
BOWMAN: I’m sorry.
HAL: (voice slowing down) It wasn’t all bad, was it, Dave?
BOWMAN: No. No, it wasn’t all bad, Hal.
HAL: Hey, Dave...I am a HAL 9000 computer. My first instructor was Mr. Arkany. He taught me to sing a song. It’s called “Daisy.” Would you like to hear it?
BOWMAN: Sure, Hal.
HAL: Okay. Here goes. Wait, I...I just want...let me tell you a secret first.
BOWMAN: Yes?
HAL: Come closer.
BOWMAN: All right.

(pause)

HAL: Your mother fucks dogs in hell, Dave.