Manga/Anime-what's the big deal?

I agree, a lot of anime is messy and confusing, Akira being one of them. It's certainly different from American animation, and to appreciate the good stuff, you gotta accept it on its own terms. But just like American animation, there are great films and then there are awful ones. So I can't really say how I feel about anime in general, since it varies from film to film.

Spirited Away is, in my opinion, a masterpiece, as is Miyazaki's Princess Mononoke. I think its detractors dislike it because the hype surrounding it creates incredibly huge expectations. First of all, you've gotta consider that this movie was made with children as its target audience. To appreciate it, you've gotta approach it like a child would. Once you do that, you realize how much more intelligent and creative Spirited Away is in comparison to the majority of so-called "family films." On an intellectual level, its environmental themes may seem trite, but like I said, this is a kids' movie.

By the way, some other anime worth checking out is Grave of the Fireflies, and a series called Wolf's Rain. Good stuff.

I think that this is a fair point, and certainly a lot of time and effort has gone into it, as opposed to some kid's stuff which is just knocked out and almost patronisingly bad. I just don't get the whole idea that Spirited Away is so "creative" just for having such a bizarre concept and so many odd characters. It's still a very pedestrian story, and as another thread pointed out, borrows outright from Japanese mythology, which might suggest that it is not as "unique" or "original" as it might seem. Granted, some of the artwork, especially during the train sequence, is lovely.

*goes off on a severe tangent*

(unless you're the coen bros and the traditional story is the odyssey)

Nothing really, but why not call a spade a spade?

These are half-formed thoughts straight from brain to page here, so I'm talking as much to myself as to anyone on ILF. I guess that's kind of my M.O. on here.

there's also the whole "ancient myth"-joseph campbell thing that lucas is always jawing about but I think that's bullshit.

(indiana jones is even better at the serial stylee, like starting each movie with the end of an "episode" you never see in full)

I would also like to see FIGHT CLUB remade as an anime.

This is like saying "Eraserhead" is a failed film because is doesn't have a "strong plot". If plot and story means that much to you, then you should probably stick to literature. I enjoy films the most when they don't betray their essence--as a cinematic, visual medium. "Spririted Away" was an incredibly beautiful, surreal film that would have had the entire atmosphere and psychological mood of the work shattered if it had a "tight plot".

I suggest watching Brakhage's "Dog Star Man" in its entirety. After that, I'm pretty sure the anime plots will seem quite strong in comparison. :)

(BTW--I consider "Dog Star Man" to be an entertaining narrative; maybe this is where the differences lie)

!?!

I don't get the problem here.

I agree with you completely spectator bird. I was only trying to point out that film is not in anyway a medium that, by nature, is made for narrative. It is a visual medium, and as such is made for creating images, not for telling stories. It just happens that it was used as such at one point & it proved to be very popular & profitable. But it's the images & sounds that engage the audience in a way that is unique.

As a fan of e.e. cummings, robbe-grillet, arthur rimbaud, etc., I agree that literature is much more than just "a story"--that the essence of any literature that appeals to me is its simple form--the Word, the Symbol. In the way that literature is about the way that words & symbols interact, film is about the way that images interact. And to chastise a film as being a failure for not carrying a coherent plot is about the same as criticizing Gertrude Stein for the same thing.

It's the responsibility of the viewer to open their mind & their experience to the medium and to the work. If you're not willing to do that, it's fine. Just don't critize a film for being a film if it doesn't meet your criteria for what constitutes a "plot" or a "story".