Lars von Trier's Dogville

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I've seen this movie yesterday and I was wondering if anyone here has seen it...

― francesco, Sunday, 9 November 2003 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought it was very good. very long. overall, fairly incredible acting. interesting to think about, given anti-american slant (which i wasn't tuned into necessarily during the film, but started thinking about more after reading some reviews and whatnot)

― ron (ron), Thursday, 13 November 2003 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Terrific acting et al but I had some problems with the "anti-americanism"

the anti-american message of the film was exactly about what? about amoral familism as displayed in a christian bigot little community? is that a quintessentially american thing? wasn't the last scene with poorly dressed kids plus david bowie's Young Americans so squallid? Do I make a relevent comment on Italian culture's political and cultural darksides showing the same images giving the name of some small town near Naples? And by doing that should I call it an "Anti-Italian" work?

― francesco, Thursday, 13 November 2003 10:33 (twenty-one years ago)

it won the Palme Dog. so it must be good.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 13 November 2003 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I really, really fear it.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

well i almost put some quotes around anti-american myself. ;-) some of what i was trying to figure out after the fact: if the town represents america, who exactly is kidman supposed to be, and what is her father's gang?

the most interesting part of the movie was the dialog between caan and kidman in the car, just before the big action. talking about how her actions were arrogant.

― ron (ron), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh i ws worried that dialogue ws going to be ruined by the weight of its own stuffy didacticism as it began but it got better and better then the killing. i'd need to sit down and *read* wht they said tho i thk.

― athos magnani (Cozen), Thursday, 13 November 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i had to rewind that part a couple of times, which was helpful - but i never really did decide exactly what i think of it. that scene is what really makes me want to figure out what's representing what. i mean it's there that the final judgment is being passed, so who's passing it and why, i guess

― ron (ron), Friday, 14 November 2003 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

someone told me that the last dialogue and the final shooting scene were originally conceived to be,like, twice as long. That would have been a far more interesting film to watch...

― francesco, Friday, 14 November 2003 11:13 (twenty-one years ago)

four months pass...

Reviving. Anyone have any opinions on the early Von Trier stuff? This retrospective is starting this week and a lot of his early and TV stuff is being shown.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The documentary/short film project he did with his old professor (arbitrary rules on how the shorts could be made) sounds interesting, but I don't know if it will ever be available in the US.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 05:49 (twenty-one years ago)

what's the deal with the version of the film that is being released in the US? Has von Trier disowned it or something? I thought I heard that the studio butchered it.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I am so f'n tempted to spend the 27th and 28th watching the Kingdom.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I am so f'n tempted to spend the 27th and 28th watching the Kingdom

I'm irritated because I'm already going to see The Church at House Of Blues on Saturday and Stereolab on Sunday. Otherwise I'd be there both nights.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 20 March 2004 05:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I may have to pass, unfortunately. I want to see the Coachwhips show at the Smell on Saturday. I have the Kingdom on tape but there's something about seeing people walk out in digust that appeals to me.

― dean! (deangulberry), Monday, 22 March 2004 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I just got the Korean 2 disc DVD of this (although apparently there are no english subtitles on the disc of bonuses) fairly cheap off ebay, just in case this US "editing" of the film actually happened.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I was interested in seeing this film because:

i) I love Lars

ii) I love Nicole

iii) I love dogs (it won the Palme Dog at Cannes).

but then I heard how long it was and I decided not to bother.

what is the dog who appears at the end like? is he a good dog?

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

no. he is not a good dog.

I hate dogs.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

it was pretty good i thought--makes more sense as a religious allegory than a political allegory, tho i guess the two aren't mutually exlusive. no need for it to be that long (and it is a LONG three hours)

― ryan (ryan), Monday, 19 April 2004 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

ALSO, BEST CREDITS EVER (!!!)

― lisafrank! (deangulberry), Monday, 19 April 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

It really didn't feel that long to me. Am I messed up?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i was hung over

― ryan (ryan), Monday, 19 April 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i checked my watch 40 minutes in!

― ryan (ryan), Monday, 19 April 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

if the town represents america, who exactly is kidman supposed to be, and what is her father's gang?

Ryan OTM that 'it makes more sense as a religious allegory'. But it's religious in a political way, because religion is always political. I think the two templates are the story of Sodom from the Old Testament, with the angels going to tell Lot to get out before God destroys the city, and Brecht's 'Good Person Of Szechuan', in which some angels come to a town on the understanding that it will be saved if they can find one good person. And of course the Christian story, with Kidman as Christ.

By the way, I thought it was a terrific film, best thing I've seen in a long time. Was it 'anti-American'? Well, is Hamlet anti-Danish?

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 17 June 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

never thought i'd say this, but momus OTM!

just watched this. incredible

― duke american, Thursday, 2 September 2004 05:51 (twenty-one years ago)

As Stuart Klawans wrote in his review in The Nation, "Lars von Trier despises you. Despise him back."

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

This movie just kicked my ass in a good way. Definitely my favorite Lars Von Trier film. The conclusion managed to be cathartic and add another layer to everything. Overall, very emotionally involving and thoughtful. Many people just dismissed this out right because of its apparent pessimism. Myself, I found it oddly empowering.

― herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Sunday, 12 September 2004 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Pessimism, fine. Hateful misanthropy combined with ugly visuals and sophomoric aping of Brecht and Thornton Wilder, stinkin'.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

There's no doubt he's "aping" Wilder and Brecht. He's very far from hiding that. I specifically like the fact that Von Trier had the apparent curiousity about what would happen if you combined the world views and formal devices of both writers. Unless your not criticizing him for only appropriating both of their approaches, the same way De Palma apes Hitchock, and suggesting that "Dogville" is far inferior to what Brecht and Wilder accomplish in their work. If so, that's an argument I'd be curious to hear.

I also thought the film was visually engaging, pretty much throughout, despite the ultra minimal set design. The image of Grace and Tim on the park bench prior to the fourth of july picnic, in particular has stuck with me.
Misanthropy is not an inherently flawed viewpoint in art and sometimes expressed rage can be bracing. Although I'd agree that hateful misanthropy in real life becomes problematic.

― herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Absolutely far inferior to Wilder ... I don't know Brecht well enough to say for sure. But it's certainly not an argument I'd want to spend much time on.

I'm with Jonathan Rosenbaum, the critic who refers to Breaking the Waves, Dancer in the Dark, and Dogville as Lars's "torturing women" trilogy. (And I like BTW.)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 September 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

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