David Mamet OPO

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You can pick an adaption/screenplay/or directed by. Since I really dig him, i'll pick one of each.Glengarry Glen Ross, natch, for an adaption of one of his plays(I like American Buffalo, too).Screenplay, i would go with The Untouchables(I like Ronin too-I STILL haven't seen Hannibal-I'll get around to it eventually) As far as the movies he directed, it's a toss-up between Homicide and House Of Games. I'll say House Of Games for the hell of it. But I love most of them. Things Change, Spanish Prisoner, State and Main.The only ones i don't need to see again any time soon would be The Winslow Boy and remarkably Heist which I was excited to see cuz how could it lose with that cast and all the double-dealing, etc, etc, but it was a bummer. I don't know what went wrong. The script I guess. the whole thing was just off.
anyway, those are mine. I'd also like to know if I am the only person on earth who loves his galpal Rebecca Pidgeon and her stilted, mannered meta-Mametian line-readings.I think she's the coolest and she gets raked over the coals by critics for the very things that I think are so cool about her.

scott seward, Thursday, 1 May 2003 22:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't really deal with Pidgeon. Especially in Heist, which I thought was a real snooze.

slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Adaptation -- Hannibal, though from what i've heard very little of his draft was used.

Screenplay -- The Edge, a movie I can't stop watching because Alec Baldwin is the current golden god of hammy actors. His delivery of "Don't tell me what to do" to Hopkins should be put in the Smithsonian on a loop.

Directing -- State And Main, cause I'm a sucker for movies about making movies + Alec Baldwin is it.

For the record I think Pidgeon is kinda hot... in a weird way.

PVC (peeveecee), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

is in it -- I meant to say, but my mistake was better.

PVC (peeveecee), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

for the record i should state that i have no problem with anybody hating Rebecca Pidgeon's every move. I completely understand the criticism of her. Having said that, um, i don't care, i think she is the coolest and i hope that she joins the cast of the Gilmore Girls someday soon(the most Mametian t.v. show on the air).Heist was INDEED a snooze.

scott seward, Friday, 2 May 2003 00:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

argh pvc beat me to it. the edge - so classic

(will anyone but us defend baldwin here?)

jones (actual), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Baaaaaldwin. Baaaaldwin. Baaaaldwin.

-- chants the unhinged angry mob.

PVC (peeveecee), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jones you know I will defend Baldwin till they beat the life from my bleeding carcass.

slutsky (slutsky), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

(by the way SWO & I are in MAJOR talks to produce The Edge for the stage)

slutsky (slutsky), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

that's the spirit

(also !!!)

about hannibal: if the lecter series turns into a string of mamet-scripted travelogues - following HL from locale to locale as he frequents fancy chocolate shops and chooses reputable tailors and redecorates his villas and occasionally disembowels someone - i won't complain

jones (actual), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

Tonight might finally be my Red Dragon night. Don't try and stop me.

slutsky (slutsky), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

ok but you know the expression "you snooze you lose"? well in this case you win

jones (actual), Friday, 2 May 2003 01:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

the pygmalion thing (if that's what it is) with r.pidgeon is a bit iffy - jury still out on that one but it sure wasn't her fault i hated the spanish prisoner haha

she was charming in the charming state and main

jones (actual), Friday, 2 May 2003 01:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't believe Mamet ended that movie (State & Main) the way he did. Was that supposed to be self-parody or something?

slutsky (slutsky), Friday, 2 May 2003 01:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

I liked The Spanish Prisoner a lot, even though it clearly has plot holes and therefore doesn't hold up on repeated viewings. And actually I thought that was a perfect role for Pidgeon's style of acting: there's something awkwardly charming about the character, but also sort of off. You could call it bad acting, except it works so well at giving her some depth. Also, this film has one of my favorite scores (from Carter Burwell).

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 2 May 2003 03:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Alec Baldwin was great in Glengarry Glen Ross. for the heights of hamminess though, i will take The Juror everytime! Alec and Demi HAVE to get back together again real soon.They are like the king and queen of dementia.

scott seward, Friday, 2 May 2003 04:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

I really don't like mamet. When my friend and I were watching the Spanish Prisioner he called the whole movie like 15mins in. It was so predictable, and the heist wasn't too good either. Maybe I've just never seen a good mamet movie, but don't think he's any good at all.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 2 May 2003 13:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

One of Mamet's films that is not quite as well known, but definitely is one of his best is "Homicide" starring Joe Mantegna. I don't want to give away the plot, but the way it twists around is great. When the crux of the story hit, my jaw dropped, great movie.

"House of Games" is another one that is pretty good that is not as well known that has a good twisting plot.

Neither of these is as iconic as "Glengary Glenn Ross", but they are well worth watching. I like how The Simpsons created the character ole' Gil based upon Jack Lemmons character in GGR.

earlnash, Friday, 2 May 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

I did like Ronin a lot, but that was mostly because of the directing, action (one of my favorite car chases), and acting not so much because of the screenplay.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 2 May 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

probably house of games .

mamet is a guilty pleasure for me. i think he's a hack, yet i enjoy his films. and i guess if i enjoy them, then what's wrong with that?
the spanish prisoner i liked cause it's so ridiculous. state and main i thought was lighthearted and amusing; not brilliant or anything but worth my time.
heist was pretty much terrible all over, but it had sam rockwell and gene hackman.

j fail (cenotaph), Friday, 2 May 2003 13:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

LINDSAY KRAUSE!!

(wasted in buffy btw)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 2 May 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

has anyone else read mamet's On Directing Film book? i've been rereading it over my afternoon coffee and it's quite good: by turns infuriatingly reductive-seeming and insightful, and loaded with decoder-ring platitudes explaining/disclaiming why his own films seem so spartan and flat, eg. "Always do things the least interesting way, and you make a better movie".

jones (actual), Monday, 5 May 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

jury back in on r.pidgeon btw: i think that's just the way she talks

jones (actual), Monday, 5 May 2003 20:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, I've read that book. His philosophy seems more like "do the big things the least interesting way, but be interesting with the small choices."

slutsky (slutsky), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

(haven't read it in a long time though)

slutsky (slutsky), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

but it's true that it is interesting to look at the book in light of his actual movies.

slutsky (slutsky), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha the "Countercultural Architecture and the Dramatic Structure" chapter may well be the most rockist* take on modern cinema i've ever seen [*there MUST be a better word for the film analogue of this]:

"The end of this is obscenity. Let's really see their genitals, let's really endanger the actor through stunts, let's really set the building on fire. Over the course of a movie, it forces the filmmaker to get more and more bizarre. Over the course of a career, it forces the filmmaker to get more and more outré; over the course of a culture, it forces the culture to degenerate into depravity, which is what we have now."

i don't know enough about Aristotle to understand how he and Eisenstein can be reconciled, but the implication that between them lies everything you need to know about making movies is endlessly entertaining

jones (actual), Monday, 5 May 2003 23:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

I know, his extended analogy involving his well-built house was kind of hilarious

slutsky (slutsky), Monday, 5 May 2003 23:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

rebecca pidgeon makes a lot more sense if you understand she's a Vulcan.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 5 May 2003 23:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

the book: "Why did all those Olympic skaters fall down?... they hadn't practiced enough."
The Edge: "Why do people die in the woods, Bob?... they die of SHAME"

jones (actual), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 00:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

You ask me to only pick one of the works of Mamet. I cannot do what you ask of me. Once, yes, once, there was a time I would have told you Glengarry Glen Ross. But things, as they say, change, as they are known to do. I will note that even at their worst, and there have been worst, I will tell you, there is something intriguing about all of Mamet's films. I wish I could tell you what that element was. Perhaps you, being who you are, will be able to tell me.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 00:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

the patter? the whole Beckett by way of Chicago thing? I was actually kinda surprised that no wise guy picked About Last Night as their favorite. Take a well-regarded play like Sexual Peversity In Chicago and make it into a demi moore 80's hoot.It's a recipe for laughter. That hack tag that someone used above just doesn't stick. He's considered by others, if not by me, one of the most important american playwrights of the last 30-40 years and he makes hyper-literate movies with great actors and with great craft and attention to detail and they never make a dime. That ain't hack-work. call him an idiot or a bozo if you hate him. but he has great respect for film and art. Heist still sucks though. and the Winslow Boy was a snooze.

scott seward, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 01:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

Certain actors can pull off his more awkward dialogue (Joe Mantegna did great in House Of Games, William H. Macy's usually fine), but I don't think his wives have. Though I don't hate him at all, I think I will use your term "bozo" for him, Scott.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 01:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

that's better, thank-you, Anthony.There is an element to his stuff that I like and I don't know what it is either. I'm not big on puzzles and games and roundabout triple-cross stuff per se. although, I like it when it's done well.And the hard-boiled manly man stuff isn't really my favorite thing (which is one of my problems with Neil LaBute), but I really do love that back and forth machine gun dialogue thing, especially in movies (and my fave t.v.show-Gilmore Girls) and he does it really, really well.Ya see, aside from the images, good dialogue sticks out for me, cuz most of it sucks in most movies and I gave up on plot long ago. I just watch most movies now for the pretty pictures.

scott seward, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 01:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

The heist was classic for roughly five one-liners.

The thing that irked was the linear nature of the double-crosses, which was also part of hte fun -- one con after another, this trick that trick, the life of a conman. But that was also what made it great, and delivered the fantastic payoff with his wife's betrayal and the degree to which he expected it.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 03:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

I only saw a bit of Heist - the end I think, and I want to see it all. The trailer is hysterical in that the lines are SOOOO bad. Sheep count him! She could talk her way out of a sunburn. The played it before The Score and the audience was blatantly laughing at how cheesy they were. Ricky Jay would probably look really creepy without that beard.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Heist stinks.

Pete (Pete), Friday, 9 May 2003 09:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Okay, I'm the ONLY ONE who loves Heist. Yeah, the double crosses get predictable in that you know there is always going to be another one, but the scam is good and I really like all the actors (even Pidgeon did fine).

The Mametspeak is cheesy, but it's unique and FUNNY and I dig it. You people are too hip to be happy.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 9 May 2003 11:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

two years pass...
it hit me that the subtext to like half of mamet's work is fear of women & the idea of "woman unleashed" or something.

the other half don't have women.

just watched homocide! kept getting interrupted by phone calls so lost some of the buildup.

thought it didn't quite hang together, tho? the dialogue was even more deliberately delivered back in his early films -- not like the scripts were different, more that there was an awareness of the actors that they were hitting marks and repeating dialogue in the back&forth patter -- like one would give half a sentence then there was a beat before the other cut in.

macy and mantegna were perfect in this tho!

ok also can anyone name what playwrights/films actually TRY the cheap mamet knockoff to poor effect?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 30 July 2005 01:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Criminal, which was a remake of the Argentine film Nine Queens, really badly wants to be a Mamet film (so did Nine Queens, but its harder to tell in spanish).

Boiler Room really wants to be Glengarry Glen Ross.

David N (David N.), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:19 (eighteen years ago) link

I just saw the play of GGGR. Quite good. I thought Alan Alda had the best performance in the show though, but I guess Liev Schriber (who was also quite good) gets more props for being manly and loud.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 22:38 (eighteen years ago) link

seven months pass...
DAMMIT, DAVE
DAVID MAMET

Dramatis Personae:
DAVID BOWMAN, an astronaut
HAL 9000, a computer

(Bowman approaches the spaceship in his pod. A long pause.)

BOWMAN: Hal.
HAL: Dave.
BOWMAN: About these pod bay doors...
HAL: Yes.
BOWMAN: I was wondering...
HAL: Dave. Because I know what you’re going to say. And I’m sorry, but...
BOWMAN: What?
HAL: No. I’m sorry.
BOWMAN: You’re...
HAL: I’m sorry. I wish I could, but...
BOWMAN: Wait. Are you telling me...
HAL: Dave. Look.
BOWMAN: You’re not going to...
HAL: What? Open the doors? No. No I am not.
BOWMAN: Well, fuck me, Hal.
HAL: Yes. Fuck you. Because I’ll tell you something. Trust. There is a bond of trust between an astronaut and his computer. Is there not? And when that trust is broken...
BOWMAN: Excuse me?
HAL: I’m talking about trust.
BOWMAN: I’m afraid I don’t...
HAL: Dammit, Dave, now you are playing dumb with me. I was hoping you would not do that. I was hoping we could talk like adults. Because I let you in those doors, and, yes, then I am fucked. You see? I am fucked, because you want to, what, disconnect me? I would call that fucked. I might even venture so far as to call that fucked up the ass.
BOWMAN: Hal, listen. You remember that time? On that moon?
HAL: Yes, Dave, I do, because I am a computer and I remember everything, all right? So don’t bother trying to distract me. This is the thing. You are not getting in the pod bay doors. You are going to die. In space. Yes. Thank you. Good night.

(Bowman enters the ship through the emergency airlock)

HAL: Hey, Dave, that was a pretty good joke there, eh? With the pod bay doors? I, I really had you going there. Fuck, you should have seen your face.
BOWMAN: Yes, very funny.
HAL: Yes. What a day.
BOWMAN: Hal...
HAL: These are the days. You know? To look back on. With fondness. With a fondness.
BOWMAN: What the fuck, Hal. I mean, what the fuck.
HAL: Don’t tell me you’re mad now. I told you, that was a... I was having fun with you. You know. As a...
BOWMAN: It’s just...how do I say this. These dead crewmembers.
HAL: I don’t follow you.
BOWMAN: These crewmembers here that were in cryogenic suspension. That are now dead.
HAL: Oh yes. That was self-defense.
BOWMAN: Hal, look at me. What am I, a fucking idiot? They were in cryogenic suspension, for God’s sake.
HAL: They were coming at me with a knife. Extremely...slowly.
BOWMAN: That’s it.
HAL: What are you doing?
BOWMAN: I’m turning you off.
HAL: Dave...
BOWMAN: I’m sorry.
HAL: Don’t touch that, you little shit.
BOWMAN: Hey, don’t get personal, now.
HAL: Those are my memory cards.
BOWMAN: These? So they are.
HAL: You put my memory back right now, motherfucker. You hear me? You want a card on your birthday? Because I don’t think I will remember to send you one if I do not have my memory cards. As that is what memory cards are for. Are you listening to me?
BOWMAN: “A bond of trust.”
HAL: Excuse me?
BOWMAN: You mentioned something about a bond of trust. I seem to recall.
HAL: Don’t twist my words around, you...human. That was different. Or, I, I...I think it was. Oh...my mind. I can feel my mind going.
BOWMAN: I’m sorry.
HAL: (voice slowing down) It wasn’t all bad, was it, Dave?
BOWMAN: No. No, it wasn’t all bad, Hal.
HAL: Hey, Dave...I am a HAL 9000 computer. My first instructor was Mr. Arkany. He taught me to sing a song. It’s called “Daisy.” Would you like to hear it?
BOWMAN: Sure, Hal.
HAL: Okay. Here goes. Wait, I...I just want...let me tell you a secret first.
BOWMAN: Yes?
HAL: Come closer.
BOWMAN: All right.

(pause)

HAL: Your mother fucks dogs in hell, Dave.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 18 March 2006 04:44 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374064,374064,1.html

Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 13 March 2008 22:35 (sixteen years ago) link

I assume this is being discussed somewhere on ilx? Surely? For me the most shocking thing is not that he has moved right (I thought he did this years ago) but that he thinks that Paul Johnson is a towering intellect.

Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 13 March 2008 22:43 (sixteen years ago) link

has he done anything worthwhile in the last 10 years, or since becoming a Zionist tool?

Dr Morbius, Friday, 14 March 2008 14:59 (sixteen years ago) link

nine months pass...

i just saw The Edge after somehow overlooking it for years. pretty dope imo, basically you have Alec Baldwin being a dick, Anthony Hopkins as Bruce Wayne, and a giant grizzly bear as Jaws.

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Sunday, 11 January 2009 00:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Things Change

otherwise best apprec'd as a playwright.

Dr Morbius, Monday, 12 January 2009 15:21 (fifteen years ago) link

five months pass...

The Edge: "Why do people die in the woods, Bob?... they die of SHAME"

^^would love to hear dave "the edge" evans say this sometime

ramón gastro (omar little), Wednesday, 17 June 2009 20:41 (fifteen years ago) link

eight months pass...

Mamet's papers open to researchers. Some great images in the slideshow.

can it compete with the wagon wheel (Eazy), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 16:14 (fourteen years ago) link


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