Are there any threads on I Love Film that aren't marked by endless self-congratulatory remarks on how smart "we" all are and how dumb and passive the "average moviegoer" is?

ILF largely suffers b/c people think it's an elitist place to talk about films - it only is because people choose to believe that and therefore not talk about whatever they want to film-related here that it seems like that.

And as far as the "elitism" thing goes, I don't think the previous statement is anymore elitist than someone saying "all film is art". It seems that folks taking the die-hard po-mo relativist perspective think they're being modest and all-embracing, but in fact they're doing the exact opposite, by calling anyone who doesn't take the viewpoint an "elitist". I'll take the Socratic approach--you're more free when you make a choice.

Just post what you want to discuss--you're bound to find someone who wants to discuss it. And ignore the stuff you're not interested in. If something seems "elitist" or stupid to you, ignore it & don't contribute. And if you can't handle some agressive debate in which someone may completely disagree with you, then why even come onto a forum like this? Debate is what makes art, life, discussion, etc. interesting. A viewpoint that is in opposition to your own challenges you to confront your ideas & to clarify and expand them to gain a more complete understanding. It's an incredibly rewarding thing when you can take the next step beyond calling someone with different ideas "elitist" or "ignorant" and actually listen to their views & gain an understanding of why they differ or relate to yours in certain ways.

This is a fantastic forum, and it's a shame that some people are becoming discouraged by it, but if you can't take the proverbial heat.....

Yes, definitely! I'm sure I'm top of the list of the "elitist" types being mentioned here, but "Billy Madison" and "Old School" are two of my favorite movies. I love the wide breadth of cinema discussed on this site, and I only become discouraged when discussions of underground/experimental/art-house works become seen as "elitist" when there's 200 posts on LOTR or "Police Academy". To each his own, live and let live, yadda yadda yadda....

KEEP ILF ALIVE!

And the average moviegoer is really, really dumb.

But still, there's room for all here. . .

NICE!

Yeah, it feels kind of strange to be labeled an elitist when I'm driving a '95 Sentra with squeaky brakes! I'm too damn poor to be an elitist!

Buddha, you're a good man for knowing thyself. There's no reason for anybody to be an apologist for their tastes, interests or opinions.

I think a lot of people are getting hung-up on the "average audience member" thing, thinking they are grouped in to that. I guess the assumption of everyone who posts negative things about the "average" moviegoer is that NO ONE who posts to this site is an average moviegoer. It takes someone who is passionate and highly interested in film to seek out a site like this and post your thoughts, and it makes you something more than just a casual theater-goer; it makes you a film lover, cineaste, afficienado, or whatever other euphemism you wish to apply.

It's your own fault--your unwillingness to explore the connections between the "real" McBain and the McBain from the Simpsons was your hubris!

Shame on you, downplaying the great and all-knowing Simpsons! :)

I think there is nothing but inclusivity on this site--no one has ever told anyone not to post a thought or opinion, said it was stupid, etc. But people are bound to disagree, and on a site for film-lovers, cineastes, whatever you want to call it, if someone throws out a comment like "that movie sucked", you have to expect that someone is going to ask you to explain your position. Otherwise, what's the point of voicing your opinion?

And unfortunately, I do feel that if folks who do have an advanced film education (by which I don't necessarily mean scholarly, just that some people have watched/studied/etc. more films than others) try to make their comments/theories "accesible", that enevitably necessitates a "dumbing down". There are not too many forums for serious film folks outside of the university, and this has become one of them. But that's not all there is--there is plenty of conversation about mainstream works, both casual and erudite, and just plain joking around. Which is great, and the variety is what makes it fun.

In short, if you're not interested in the more scholarly topics, ignore them. If there's a film you like that's being discussed in a scholarly manner & you want to add something to the discussion, don't feel a need to have all of the vocabulary down or a huge list of films you've seen to back up your opinion. Just be prepared to back up your opinion with something, and at least be able to explain specific aspects you didn't like, and more importantly, WHY you didn't like them.

And most importantly folks, don't take this so seriously! no one's getting paid to be here--we're just engaging in a bit of internet horseplay & mental masturbation; it's nothing to be up in arms about.

god, and we thought GenX was bad; now we're on to GenItDoesn'tMatterButLetsBlabAboutItEndlessly.

No wonder I don't associate with anyone under the age of thirty......

(Which, I suppose, is kind of the old Pitchfork/indie-kid stereotype in a different medium.)

What brings this up is that I just got an e-mail on a mailing list for a local indie-rock radio show, trying to get everyone to join the Napoleon Dynamite street team or something. And it's just such bland crap, something that none of these people would look twice at if a major studio did it.

bump

jay blanchard otm

even a broken clock...