The ILF Top 100 American Films

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I was reading Jonathan Rosenbaums list the other day (which he wrote in response the the putrid AFI list), and it occurred to me that ILF ought to compile its own list. Now, I am in no way suggesting that we actually go through with that idea, or that such an endeavor would even be possible. I just thought it would be fun to toss around our own nominations and see which films show up more than once.

In my humble on, the only use these kinds of lists serve is for any avid film lover to find recommendations - that's it. So, in the interest of a more diverse list, I've decided that I personally will be following the "one film per director" rule. With that in mind, I will say that there are a couple of films on the AFI list that I love that will not make my list of suggestions so that I may offer a superior alternative by the same filmmaker.

So here's what I can salvage from the AFI list:
Citizen Kane, Sunset Boulevard, Chinatown, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, The Manchurian Candidate, City Lights, Duck Soup, The Searchers

And now my own personal nominations:

Marnie (Hitchcock)
Bigger Than Life (Ray)
Shadows (Cassavetes)
Eraserhead (Lynch)
Rio Bravo (Hawks)
Night of the Living Dead (Romero)
Anatomy of a Murder (Preminger)
Dead Man (Jarmusch)
Out of the Past (Tourneur)
Bride of Frankenstein (Whale)
The Man from Laramie (Mann)
Do the Right Thing (Lee)
The King of Comedy (Scorsese)
Broken Blossoms (Griffith)
Dog Day Afternoon (Lumet)
Nashville (Altman)
Matinee (Dante)
Stop Making Sense (Demme)
Reservoir Dogs (Tarantino)
The Night of the Hunter (Laughton)
Blow Out (De Palma)
Donnie Darko (Kelly)
Sunrise (Murnau)
The Conversation (Coppola)
God Told Me To (Cohen)
Titicut Follies (Wiseman)
Detour (Ulmer)
Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (Tashlin)
Blade Runner (Scott)
Crimes & Misdemeanors (Allen)
Badlands (Malick)
They Drive By Night (Walsh)
Easy Rider (Hopper)
Barton Fink (Coen)
House of Games (Mamet)
Sweet Smell of Success (MacKendrick)
Three Kings (Russell)
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Siegel)
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid (Peckinpah)
White Dog (Fuller)
My Own Private Idaho (Van Sant)
Hearts and Minds (Davis)

― Anthony (Anthony F), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Harmony Korine's "Gummo" and "Julien Donkey-Boy" deserve mention.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I like a lot of your choices, fwiw.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 December 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I second that.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 2 December 2004 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

the AFI list is shitty, but i'd probably salvage at least a few of these (besides some you mentioned):

"bringing up baby", "the apartment", "rebel without a cause", "rear window", "the godfather", "the godfather II", "some like it hot", "high noon"

i'm going to have to think some more about new additions. i liked your list.

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 2 December 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the best part of this exercise is plugging films into the "wait a fucking second, they included ________ and not ______?" equation. try it, it's fun!

"wait a fucking second, they included DANCES WITH WOLVES and not RIO BRAVO?"

"wait a fucking second, they included E.T. and not DO THE RIGHT THING?"

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 2 December 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"Do The Right Thing" isn't on the list? Wow, I just assumed it was. I haven't seen the AFI list, but I'm guessing one token black film that was easily digestible by whites is on there ("Look Who's Coming to Dinner", "The Color Purple") so there was no need to actually put a challenging film by a black director on the list.

I hate the AFI with a passion....

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, just checked out the "thread" (or should I call it sewing circle bicker-debate) over at the ILE version of this discussion. Makes me really glad I decided to boycott any film discussions over there. It all seems to degenerate to reverse-elitism "Ella Enchanted is the best movie of the year because I liked it & if you ask me to explain it you're just a rockist" bullshit.

But, hey, you gotta love anti-intellectualism--it keeps all those Southern states a nice shade of fire-engine red!

Personally, I'm less interested in 400 posts of people throwing down the names of movies they like, and more interested in 30 posts of well-defended debate & reasonings for a film's merit.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't imagine why none of Girolamo's "come to ILF" recruiting efforts ever work.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

for reference, here's rosenbaum's list. the AFI list is also included:

http://www.chireader.com/movies/100best.html

i'm kind of dismayed by how few of them i've seen.

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If you say you can eat glass, Tep, by all means do it and go back to ILE.

Also, watch Esther Kahn and be amazed.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I wasn't actually disagreeing, Eric -- just pointing out the mixed messages. Save the hostility for someone who's actually making an attack. I don't read ILE's film threads either.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

D'oh. I really ought to stop posting this afternoon. I really haven't been meaning to come off as abrasive as I apparently am lately... (well, aside from telling some people on ILE to fuck off, but even that was tongue in cheek).

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all right, I take it the thread is pretty argumentative, and if you were in that headspace then I'd look like I was arguing too. It was more of an amused comment -- maybe Girolamo's not still recruiting, even, I don't know. It always seemed best to me for the interest-boards to develop their own thing instead of just being a meta-category growing out of ILE -- and jay certainly sounds like he'd agree with that.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"I liked it & if you ask me to explain it you're just a rockist"

I prefer the follow up punch, the KO blow of the "find the piece of straw poking out of Ray Bolger's argument and set fire to it" ad strawmanem attack.

Also, watch Esther Kahn and be amazed
Eric H, that's the only one of your top four (if I read it right) I haven't seen. And I did like Ma vie sexuelle..., that's the same guy, isn't it?

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Jay: the ILE thread has nothing to do with this thread. The ILE thread is a POLL of the Top 100 Films of the 1990s. And right now it's just in the nominating phase. So of course there's not much discussion.

But I do think it's a gross mischaracterization to say that anti-rockism (or at least anti-rockist attitudes applied to film) is by nature anti-intellectual. I've said it before, but the reason why I like a lot of the pop-music discussion on ILM is precisely because it is so intellectual. If it wasn't, I'd probably still be as dismissive of pop as I was in college.

Also, there's a difference between saying that taste is subjective and saying that because of that fact, it can't be explained or defended. If all someone is doing is saying, "This is great because I like it, and if you don't like it, fuck you," then I'm not really interested in reasoning with that person, either. But I do want to read impassioned defenses and critiques of films that aren't often critically appreciated: they can be fun, informative, and eye-opening.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i just got done reading the ILE thread and it seems like there's a lot knee-jerk overcompensation happening on both sides of the fence. so, staying out of that argument, i'd just like to openly wonder: how does "rockism" fit for film? it seems a lot trickier - i can see analogues between studio undertakings:pop :: auteur:rockist, but the nature of film production makes analogues very complicated. and so much "middlebrow" film is considered "pop" by some audiences and "elite" by others that the comparison becomes obscured. i'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 2 December 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Desplechin. I haven't actually seen any of his other films (that sure strips me of my pretenses, don't it?). I have heard mixed from all but Desplechin fans about Kings and Queen, so naturally I'm intrigued.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 December 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

(sigh)

― Remy Snush (x Jeremy), Thursday, 2 December 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Guys, I apologize for bringing undue and unwanted attention to this board, honestly. If you start getting trolls on my account, I will be deeply ashamed of myself.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 December 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

ILE, rockism/anti-rockist
Uh oh, here it comes.

Favorite films:
The Blob
Beware! The Blob
Journey of the Blob
The Blob (1988 remake)
The Blob (2005 remake)

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 2 December 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Eric -- I've been posting here (admittedly sporadically) since the beginning!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 December 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

And for spectator bird: Film Rockism-friend or foe? (still a really good thread, I think)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 December 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, that thread is like the smart older sister to the current mess's bratty kid brother with a pillowcase loaded with jagged quartz. (Probably in part because I never "contributed" to that thread.)

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 December 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Guess I opened a nice can of worms.....

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah, and here's a request for ILF--

CAN WE NEVER USE THE FUCKING TERM "ROCKIST" ON HERE EVER AGAIN????

If you need to use a nonsense phrase to prove a point, then get the hell out.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Nonsense?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yup.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a perhaps misleading term, but it's also a useful one.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Did you read the Kelefa Sanneh article?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i didn't realize there was a whole other thread on "film rockism", so i apologize for bringing the specifics of that up. and while i don't agree with jay's shrillness, it does seem weird to be slinging the term around on ILF because it's so reductive in the context of film. it's nuanced enough in its proper realm (music) but here it just seems like a stand-in for "elitist". i don't think the terms as it applies to film are clear enough to use it in a meaningful and non-reductive way?

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"Did you read the Kelefa Sanneh article?"

Unfortunately.

Look, I don't mean to sound like a jerk here, but I'm just getting tired of this phrase getting thrown into every conversation like some kind of po-mo catch-all term. This is the last I'm going to post about this, and from now on, I'm simply ignoring any thread on this forum that regurgitates "rockism" arguments, and I urge others to do the same. It's just a roadblock to meaningful debate.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I do agree with you, Jay, that it often gets slung around too recklessly, and too often as a simple pejorative -- but I think when used correctly, it does limn a particular, often problematic approach to criticism in a single word.

Unfortunately.

I respect your wish to leave the subject alone, but can I assume you disagree with Sanneh, then?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 December 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

oh my goodness i had forgotten about that thread. i am always embarassed when old threads pop up and i see what i wrote. then i promise to never post again.

also calling something "po-mo" is just as much a roadbloack as "rockist"--i think we are all uncomfortable with the inability to find fixed and stable methods for evaluating art (or anything for that matter)--this anxiety is fine and i admit to feeling it all the time but i think we shouldn't let it get the best of us.

you always need to be willing to back up your claims with attention the specific film and moment at hand--there is no magic word that will save you from constant re-evaluation, neither "po-mo" nor "rockist."

― ryan (ryan), Friday, 3 December 2004 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

I enjoyed our mini-discussion of Preston Sturges here doing the missing 17-days.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

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