Slate Movie Club annual roundtable

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Zacharek, Edelstein, AO Scott, Armond White:

http://slate.com/id/2111473/entry/2111743/


OTM Dogville slams (and Sideways to a degree).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

yeah i just noticed that after posting about zacharek. i agree wholeheartedly that the Dogville slams were OTM, and it pained me to agree to a limited extent with the Sideways commentary, though i loved the film (and am not (yet?) a fat, middle-aged schlub).

a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

i am happy to see them slam the almost completely idiotic smartass comments in the Village Voice poll.

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

Man, I just started reading that thing. Pretty good! [Watches accelerated movie-cliche-clockhands spin around] Damn you for posting it!

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

Dogville consists of swipes from Brecht, '30s experimental drama, Our Town, Durrenmatt's The Visit, the Theater of Cruelty. He sure must have gone to the theater a lot because Dogville looks like he's never seen a movie before. As with every von Trier it's grainy, washed-out, and, to borrow a line from the late, great Moms Mabley, so ugly it hurt my feelings. The people who praised it remind me of nothing so much as the liberal, urban theatergoers in Brian DePalma's Hi, Mom! who attend a night of radical black theater, are mugged and raped by the actors, and then leave talking about what a rewarding, eye-opening experience it was for them.

PAHAHA

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

Christopher Kelly of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Oof, this guy is horrible.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)


I just saw "Hi, Mom!" and that's easily the best sequence.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 22:34 (twenty years ago)

"More from this smart cookie in a minute."

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

Oh man, Edelstein is so my favorite critic now. We're in sync on Vera Drake! "(I loved the first half but felt that Mike Leigh was a victim of his own rigorous naturalism in the second. I wanted the drama to do more than just play itself out.)"

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)

I mean, he's a very good critic for more reasons than the fact that I agree with him there. But I love when a critic totally nails your exact thought. I wanted to highlight A.O. Scott's Big Fish review for that same reason.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 22:56 (twenty years ago)

This is the first group of people I've seen have even one iota of tolerance for this abusive joke passing itself off as film criticism.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 6 January 2005 11:42 (twenty years ago)

I mean, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to ignore the fact that Armond holds almost everyone who loves movies in great contempt and, in essence, blames them for everything that's "wrong" with film culture.

Ah, fuck it. I'm not even in the right state of mind to be getting into this argument. He's still an essential read, et al, but how long will he continue to run on the same old fumes? And don't even get me started on his copycats.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 6 January 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

Armond holds almost everyone who loves movies in great contempt

I mean this very literally. He would accuse everyone here of being the cultural magpies perverting the purity of cinema that he and only he seems to hold the key to unlocking. He hates you (and yes I'm talking to you). Rosenbaum (sort-of-)famously suggested that film culture would be improved if there were no film critics (though he meant "reviewers," essentially). Armond seems to believe this.

God I hate getting mad at the fucker, because to get riled by him is to play right into his talons.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 6 January 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

>Armond holds almost everyone who loves movies in great contempt

Don't get me wrong, AW can be ridiculously dismissive -- The Sweet Hereafter was "a masterpiece for idiots" -- but I think he mostly holds people who love what he considers to be flattering, self-regarding movies in contempt. He's the only critic I've read so far who's pointed out that "Tarnation" is a vainglorious exploitation film, and that most of the "Before Sunset" dialogue is Bourgeois Nitwit ("as if Kevin Smith had read a book," one of the better jokes of the year).

otoh, he's unconvincing when he claims Todd Haynes and Guy Maddin hate old movies.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

He's the only critic I've read so far who's pointed out that "Tarnation" is a vainglorious exploitation film.

Hardly.

he mostly holds people who love what he considers to be flattering, self-regarding movies in contempt

I presume this is because he is offended by movies that ask him to regard something other than himself for a couple hours.

OK, I don't really hate on Armond all that hard. (In fact, he's the only critic of all those in this year's Movie Club I think is worth reading on a regular basis.) But, really, sometimes the lines must be drawn.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

otoh, he's unconvincing when he claims Todd Haynes and Guy Maddin hate old movies.
OTM here and in rest of post. AW is often wide of the mark but he is interesting, original and independent enough that when he gets it right, it's beautiful.

Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

He would accuse everyone here of being the cultural magpies perverting the purity of cinema

i like Armond most of the time but this is certainly true. there is something very adolescent about the implicit sense in his criticism that everyone around him is a drone blinded by fashion and "smug" attitudes about film. this is what makes his criticism interesting and absolutely obnoxious as hell. it just depends on the film almost. i love his defenses of Spielberg because in that case I believe that everyone is being a drone! it's hard for him to believe, on the other hand, that someone can have sincere reasons for liking a film he didn't.

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 6 January 2005 16:25 (twenty years ago)

Man, I was going to say the same thing about AW and Spielberg! FWIW there was a hilarious typographic mistake in his writeup of AI that I'm sure must have made him furious.

Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

Substitute Spielberg with De Palma and I hear that. (It seems that Spielberg, these days, is getting far more of that well-considered critical appraisal these days.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 6 January 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)


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