silent film types - need some help

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I've been watching a lot of silents lately, mostly silent comedies, and I'd like to move on to other areas. Anyway, here's a list of titles that looked interesting to me -- I'd like some advice as to whether they're the best starting points for their respective directors/actors/actresses. Or, for that matter, if they are even worth watching and some other film should be substituted. Any suggestions/advice not related to the list would be appreciated, too.

Oh, if you do have any film suggestions, run them through this - http://www.lib.unc.edu/house/mrc/films/film_search.php - because it might not be available.

Sadie Thompson, Queen Kelly, Greed - Swanson/Von Stroheim
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - Valentino
The King of Kings - DeMille
Sunrise - Murnau
The Crowd, Show People, The Big Parade - King Vidor
Strike, October, Potemkin - Eisenstein
Dr. Mabuse - Lang
Ben-Hur - Niblo
Intolerance, Birth - Griffith
The Strong Man - Harry Langdon/Capra
Hell's Angels - Hughes
Man With A Movie Camera - Vertov

And to avoid unnecessary recommendations, the ones I've seen and/or liked:

Most of Keaton's 20's work, including MGM stuff. Most Chaplin (including Mutual-era shorts). All the Lloyd I could find. Metropolis (loved it). Passion of Joan of Arc, Nosferatu, and Faust (I liked Passion, the other two were OK).

And..I've leave it at that.

― mj (robert blake), Thursday, 3 February 2005 01:41 (twenty years ago)

of the ones you listed, i've only seen sunrise, which i recommendx8million.

um, do you mind more avant-garde film? 'cuz rene clair's entr'acte is a lot of fun. ditto bunuel/dali's early shorts. (i'd also recommend the smiling madame beudet by germaine dulac and leger's ballet mecanique but your library ain't got em :( )

― joseph (joseph), Thursday, 3 February 2005 04:28 (twenty years ago)

Bunuel! Egads..I forgot to mention that I've seen "Un Chein Andalou"..needless to say was good. Need to see the other one with Dali.

The clair looks interesting, thanks.

Oh, how are you italicizing things?

― mj (robert blake), Thursday, 3 February 2005 04:46 (twenty years ago)

all of the soviet montage directors are fantastic... especially Eisenstein and Dovzhenko. (battleship potemkin and earth respectively are their masterpieces... with their other silents coming in close behind)

early russian silents by bauer and protazanov are pretty great in a dramatic vein.

any louise brooks silents are great, especially pandora's box and diary of a lost girl.

the two bunuel/dali shorts are fantastic.

the ozu and mizoguchi silents are really nice but nearly impossible to find with english intertitles.

― t0dd swiss, Thursday, 3 February 2005 07:25 (twenty years ago)

Potemkin is overrated, in my opinion. Sure, it's pretty to watch, but it's too propagandaist to be actually enjoyed.

An Andalusian Dog by Buñuel and Dali is fun to watch, but Age of Gold is overlong. 60 minutes of surreal imagery is a bit too much.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 3 February 2005 11:29 (twenty years ago)

>Man With A Movie Camera - Vertov

yes, this is a must-see - pure movie magic. the only other vertov film (actually a collection of 3 films) that i know to be readily available is kino eye: three songs about lenin, but man with a movie camera is "the one".

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 3 February 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

I'll second "Man With A Movie Camera"--I'd rather see this over Potemkin or Birth of a Nation any day (which are the other "must see in Film Studies 101" films)

If you're including avant-garde, a vast majority of Stan Brakhage's films were silent works.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 3 February 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

sunrise is great, intolerance i really enjoyed although i could have done without one of the stories (the french one). anyone seen 'the lodger - a story of the london fog'?

― zappi (joni), Thursday, 3 February 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, The Lodger is great- the first full-blown Hitchcock. Love those feet walking on the glass ceiling.

Some more Fritz Lang: Spione, Die Nibelungen, Der müde Tod
My very favorite is Spione (=Spies). The summation of the paranoid systems world-view of FL. See the Geoffrey O'Brien article on it.

More Murnau: Der letzte Mann - Corny but essential.
More Pabst: Die freudlose Gasse - great restoration a few years back!

A personal favorite:
Victor Sjöstrom: The Outlaw And His Wife

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

Ditto the Langs, and man w/ Movie Camera. Langdon, "the fourth genius" of silent comedy, never better than The Strong Man.

You haftabecareful with silent drama tho -- aside from the champs, a lot is slow going, esp the spectacles (DeMille). Some of those Eisensteins, even moreso Pudovkin, can really crrrreeeakkk.
That trio of King Vidor holds up.

Saw "Hell's Angels" again recently, which is fine in the flying and near-silent sequences and atrociously acted in the dialogue scenes. (Jean Harlow does seem ready to go down on someone at any moment, however.)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Um, where the heck is Melies' "Voyage to the Moon" on this list?

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 3 February 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

It's right there with the Lumieres's L'entrée d'un train en gare de La Ciotat- it goes without saying.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

>Victor Sjöstrom: The Outlaw And His Wife

i've been meaning to watch some of his stuff - i haven't seen any. what else do you recommend? i am seeing he who gets slapped, phantom chariot, secret of the monastery, under the red robe, and the wind as available rentals.

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 3 February 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

If you're including modern "silents" (well, at least no dialogue):

Begotten
Guy Maddin's films

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 3 February 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

And of course there's always Wiene's "Cabinet of Dr. Caligari"

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 3 February 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

Thanks for all the recommendations! Most of these are available too, so this will be a good resource. Definitely will go see "Man with the Movie Camera" next.

<I> Um, where the heck is Melies' "Voyage to the Moon" on this list? </I>

What's with the goddamn tone of that post? Jay, I've never heard of that film before you posted. That's why I asked in the first place..! As it turns out, they don't have it here anyway, along with the Maddin films and Begotten. I know you don't like being called out about being elitist on a forum called "I love film", but you must take into account that I don't have an "official" film studies background. In fact, my taste is fairly pedestrian compared to most of the people who frequent this board. Hell, I shouldn't even be having to apologize for that.

Same goes to you Ken.

All that aside, I appreciate both of you suggesting stuff.

Keep em' coming, if you've got anymore.

― mj (robert blake), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

I'll get the italicizing thing down next post.

Oh, and Jay, I've seen "Dog Star Man", and it's quite good. If you've got any other specific Brakhage that you'd think I'd like, then I'm all ears.

― mj (robert blake), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:15 (twenty years ago)

Same goes to me? What'd I do? I was trying to defuse his post, not make it worse, although maybe that was the effect.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:16 (twenty years ago)

My bad. That's how I read it, but I misinterpreted. Disregard that, then...

― mj (robert blake), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

No harm done. But now that I think about it, the Melies and the Lumiere sutff surely is available on some kind of compilation- Kino history of film or something.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

mj: your school does have a trip to the moon, and it has the lumieres short that ken was referring to also. do a title search for: landmarks of early film. it's a compilation DVD with a ton of "vital" early cinema.

i think you will find a trip to the moon to be a treat - it's one of the earliest manifestations of trick photography, combined with surreal costumes and sets.

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

i totally swore i had written about the cabinet of dr. caligari when i first posted to this thread. wtf?

the html code for italics: wordswordswords (remove asterisks)

― joseph (joseph), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

urgh, wait:

(i)wordswordswords(/i) (replace parentheses with l/r brackets)

― joseph (joseph), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

>Victor Sjöstrom: The Outlaw And His Wife
i've been meaning to watch some of his stuff - i haven't seen any. what else do you recommend?
spectator bird, you busted me- I've meant to watch some more for years, but so far that's the only one I've seen! Maybe I will use this thread as an impetus to catch up.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:58 (twenty years ago)

Good find spectator bird! Never would have known to look at a compilation. This is definitely now on the "must-see" list.

Aha!

― michael j aull (robert blake), Thursday, 3 February 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

Um, where the heck is Melies' "Voyage to the Moon" on this list?

What's with the goddamn tone of that post? Jay, I've never heard of that film before you posted. That's why I asked in the first place..!

uhhhh...whanow?? there was no "tone" intended by that--it was meant more as a surprise that I myself didn't think of it further up the thread & why some of the other regulars hadn't either. All I meant was the movie is a classic & I'm surprised we hadn't all thought of it sooner.

you might want to ask people to clarify their statements before going off on a tirade.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 3 February 2005 23:29 (twenty years ago)

BTW--if you haven't seen Melies, check it out: it's an incredible film, the first "fantasy/sci-fi" film if you will & introduced many key elements of cinematic form that would follow, especially in the field of special FX.

As for Brakhage, I'd highly recommend the "By Brakhage" Criterion set. Other than that, the only Brakhage films I know of on video are "Anticipation of the Night" and some of his paint films. The rest are available for sale/rental on 16mm or Super8mm prints. The documentary on Brakhage by Jim Shedden is also fantastic & has clips from many of Brakhage's works.

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 3 February 2005 23:33 (twenty years ago)

Fair enough. Another apology in order. Will ask in the future. I'm usually not this argumentative, but today is weird.

Best to leave it at that.

― mj (robert blake), Friday, 4 February 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

Well, I finally saw The Wind, which was indeed great- even the musical score by Macca collabo Carl Davis was perfect. Looks like my schedule for watching Victor Sjöstrom films is about the same as the Dreyer/Erice schedule for making them.

― Sons Of The Redd Desert (Ken L), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

Try tracking down some Vorkapich montage sequences. There's a nice sampling on the Unseen Cinema box set that came out last year (the "Light Rhythms" disc). That is some insane visual storytelling.

― En I See Kay. (EstrangedNative), Monday, 19 June 2006 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

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