"The second movie in a series is always the best one."

How much truth is in this statement? Which movie series support this assertion and which ones blow it out of the water? What, if any, storytelling conceits or production vagaries can be used to support or refute this assertion; is there something inherent in the ways films are made or convey their stories that make it easier to do the second installment?

Back to the Future I was much better than Back to the Future II.

Also see, Jaws, The Sting, Grease, and Smokey & The Bandit.

Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo may prove this statement correct, though.

imo Breakin' is far superior to Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo.

I also prefer Back to the Future 2 to the first one. "Two McFlys with the same gun".

matrix, alien both DEFINITLEY better than the sequels.

unlike second album syndrome i can't think of any overarching reason why second films should be better (or worse).

xmen 2 better; spiderman 2 worse; imo way too much goes into the making of a film for there to be any trend here.

don't ppl just say this because of the empire strikes back?

star wars is better

thats totally understandable but the tryna sound intelligent mainstream line is that empire is better

now if we could split this into films made with the series in mind vs sequels made years after the fact, i wonder if there'd be a trend.

are we talking trilogies only here? because wayne's world 2 is awful.

spiderman 2 was waaaayyyyy better

yeah i mean my instinct is that this comes from the concept of a pre-planned story told over multiple films (typically three) in which the second act, by standard story formula, is the "darkest" and has the most room for interesting stuff to happen (post 77 star wars is entirely to blame for this imo). but how often does it play out this way irl? almost never i think.

related question--how many proper film trilogies are there? i think the answer is 2.

post '77 that is.

don't ppl just say this because of the empire strikes back?

haha, yes

I was disagreeing with this idea even as I wrote it on the LOTR thread but I was curious as to why it popped into my head and wondering if anyone else had that same type of amorphous conventional wisdom and, if so, where it came from.

yeah it is something that is maybe embedded in ppl's minds--imo tho the only two proper "trilogies" since 77 are star wars 4-6 and LOTR, and two towers can suck it quite frankly.

like--i will never for a second believe that the matrix was "originally conceived" as three films.

It's so not true, even though I'm one of the three or four people on ILX who think it's true for the Indiana Jones series.

Oh, and Ivan Grozny II > Ivan Grozny I

Superior second parts:

The Godfather, Part II
The Empire Strikes Back
Superman II
Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom
X-2

re: indiana jones--i thought they only did the third because everyone agreed that the second sucked so hard.

hahaha nice xpost w/me and alfred

I love "Temple of Doom" so much, it's not even funny.

but it's very funny!

Kate Capshaw ruins that film.

Batman Returns and The Dark Knight are both the second one yeah?

Kate Capshaw is key to making that film superior. No disrespect to Karen Allen, but Capshaw does more with her shrill one-dimensional character than Allen does with hers. You expect Capshaw's airhead to scream and act silly, but when Spielberg put Allen through the routine earlier it felt like a big letdown. After a smashing introduction, she does nothing except shout "Indy!" while wearing a wedding dress in the desert.

Now that's a stan too far for me, Alfred.

Batman Returns and The Dark Knight are both the second one yeah?

By my definition, yes.

karen allen is waay hotter than kate capshaw, also temple of doom isnt funny

imo tho the only two proper "trilogies" since 77 are star wars 4-6 and LOTR

matrix?

also temple of doom isnt funny

lies

xp as stated above i will never believe that it was conceived as a trilogy.

I always laugh hard when Capshaw actually says, "Oh, I broke a nail!" while in the cave, then turns her hand over and sees a grasshopper the size of an Orc.

The entire sequence of them navigating through the bug room into the hall full of spikes is fucking hysterical.

i feel like i haven't seen temple of doom or the holy grail one since they came out in the theatres, i bet i need to fix that. i bet all the parts that scared the hell out of me in the second one (um, hi, I'm Mola Ram, here's your heart, would you like to look at it?) are HILARIOUS now.

The entire sequence of them navigating through the bug room into the hall full of spikes is fucking hysterical

And beautifully edited. That's the way to do it.

It wasn't till much later that I learned Capshaw was going over-the-top mocking homage of loud damsel-in-distress adventure movie cliche but the mockery of the thing remains as terrible and excruciating as the thing it is mocking. Also: "COVER YOUR HAAART! INDY I LOV YOO!"

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I love that, too

"Maybe he likes older men."

raiders of the lost ark has some peripheral haunted shit going on throughout that basically makes it the best of the three films for me, along with the excellent characterizations. (there was no 4th imo)

The end of ROTLA >>>>>>> TOD. It's so...satisfying, and the special effects still hold up.

I really want to say "Raiders" is better but I just can't, mostly because I experience so much joy watching "Temple of Doom". It's like comparing an excellent but solid meal to 5000 calories of delicious crack-laced fudge.

plus Temple of Doom has the mine car chase + CHILLDED MONKEY BRAINS

the violence seems a little more real in it too. i mean obv not the part where the wrath of god kills a couple hundred nazis but even that carries a surprising amount of weight and power imo because of the world the film has presented up to that point.

i guess i like how everyone is pretty horrified at the prospect of the ark actually being discovered and you're like, 'oh come on it won't be that bad' and then it's like 'oh right, the hebrews were otm...'

the violence seems a little more real in it too. i mean obv not the part where the wrath of god kills a couple hundred nazis but even that carries a surprising amount of weight and power imo because of the world the film has presented up to that point.

i guess i like how everyone is pretty horrified at the prospect of the ark actually being discovered and you're like, 'oh come on it won't be that bad' and then it's like 'oh right, the hebrews were otm...'

I don't disagree with a single thing you said, and yet... I really, really, REALLY like "Temple of Doom"!

I didn't see the movie until fifth grade, and I made the mistake of reading a novelization that made Belloq and Dietrich more interesting villains (they exchange bitchy banter like a comedy duo) and complicates the Belloq-Indy-Marion triangle.

i'm sympathetic to the reckless embrace of the terrible that is temple of doom but that also requires equal sympathy given to Indy vs the Crystal Aliens.

The supposed "jump the shark" moment of Indy in the lead-lined fridge is really great embrace of the terrible!

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

yeah I'm like the ONLY person here who enjoyed Indy IV so that argument is meaningless

i loved Indy IV, i will not lie

the 2nd sisterhood of the traveling pants movies is good but tbqf the first one is better - the characters more consistent, the situations more plausible. i think the freshness and uncertainty u sometimes get in o.g. movies really helps - makes the whole thing more charming

The second Alien vs. Predator was better than the first one.

i'm sympathetic to the reckless embrace of the terrible that is temple of doom but that also requires equal sympathy given to Indy vs the Crystal Aliens.

Nah, the DNA of Crystal Skull is just simply another species'.

now here's a question: Aliens vs. Alien?

I thought Aliens was great until director said it was an allegory for Vietnam and I'm all, great you ruined it for me.

yeah, it wasn't a very good allegory for Vietnam.

they're v. different and hard to compare, but alien is a better movie imo

Cameron was certainly influenced by Vietnam in his portrayal of the military, but I don't think he ever claimed that it was a direct allegory for the war.

http://www.lofficier.com/cameron.htm

nobody ever talks about @lis0n d00dy

The other day my students were debating whether Cars 2 was the best movie of all time. I asked if I should watch Cars 1 before seeing Cars 2 and they said not to bother. Then yesterday I was at a party where someone was vehemently insisting that Shrek 2 was the best Shrek. It occurred to me that my own version of this is telling anyone who will listen that the second Magic Mike movie is a great film while the rest of the series is terrible, so I guessed there must be an ILX thread for this phenomenon.

Cars 2 was the best movie of all time

all the Magic Mikes are good, XXL is just a miracle