MANNY RAMIREZ: BEST PLAYER

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MANNY HAVE YOU CONSIDERED PRODUCING FOR ONCE?!?! Because you should do that.

Andy K, Tuesday, 29 July 2008 22:17 (fifteen years ago) link

nah,i think his beats would suck.

carne asada, Tuesday, 29 July 2008 22:33 (fifteen years ago) link

Manny: Omar-S

Varitek: Bob Clearmountain

Andy K, Tuesday, 29 July 2008 22:49 (fifteen years ago) link

"You can not copy Manny-R style. You can only copy a song that has already been produced by Manny-R."

Andy K, Tuesday, 29 July 2008 22:54 (fifteen years ago) link

Pedroia: Brendan O'Brien?

David R., Wednesday, 30 July 2008 03:12 (fifteen years ago) link

how many of manny's teammates have come forward to stick up for him again, after this recent debacle? how many of his coaches? who in the front office? ownership? beat writers?

at some point, don't you have to say, shit, we appreciate your production & what you've done for us, but you've totally alienated yourself here, no one around you wants you here anymore, you haven't wanted to be here for several years & have in fact specifically asked our for several years, so we're going to trade you/let you go?

the (internet) fan reaction to the backlash against manny seems pretty preposterous & narrow-minded to me

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 04:24 (fifteen years ago) link

Yes, I'm sure that Manny would rather be playing anywhere other than a hitter's park in front of the most devoted fan base in the country. And I'm sure that he'd rather have been playing elsewhere and relieved himself of the burden of winning two world championships. And I'm sure that everyone on the Red Sox would have much happier lives now if they'd been golfing in October 2007 and 2004, which is quite possibly what they'd have been doing if Manny hadn't been there.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 08:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Who was it who wrote in a recent BP chat that basketcase players (Milton Bradley, Manny, Bonds, etc.) are the newest undervalued quantities in baseball? Whoever it was, they were OTM.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 08:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Rapozer, the mail linked to yr ILX account doesn't work. email me about Shea outing.

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 14:41 (fifteen years ago) link

dunno if any of his teammates have come forward but even if they had do you think any of the beat writers are going to print it? manny doesn't talk to them and they have delighted in taking shots at him for the past five years.

they were more appreciative of a "dirt dog" like trot nixon who would get a (juice assisted) homer every third series and hit .260 but gosh darn it, his uniform was dirty and he was always good for a quote when you're on deadline.

chicago kevin, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 15:05 (fifteen years ago) link

fwiw if i had to live in boston and spend my time around boston assholes, youd be lucky if i only shoved one person to the ground

max, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 15:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Morbz, I ILX-mailed you w/ my "real" e-mail.

David R., Wednesday, 30 July 2008 15:23 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh sorry that was off-topic.

Boston please don't trade Manny unless you get something like Juan Rivera++ in return

David R., Wednesday, 30 July 2008 15:23 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.artcyclopedia.com/images/durer-rhinoceros.jpg

these seem to be proliferating.

collardio gelatinous, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 15:57 (fifteen years ago) link

dunno if any of his teammates have come forward but even if they had do you think any of the beat writers are going to print it? manny doesn't talk to them and they have delighted in taking shots at him for the past five years.

OTM. Clearly Pedroia was too busy crushing brews with Manny at TC's Lounge to defend him to the Herald.

govern yourself accordingly, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 16:10 (fifteen years ago) link

OK, clearly I parsed that sentence wrong, but the sentiment stands. Yes, Manny's an asshole and most of his teammates hate him. Do we need Gammons telling us that? Does it matter?

Also like not to restate the obvious but the Sox have the most laughably terrible PR people when it comes to defusing any minor controversy that would probably be better served internally - say what you will about Spygate, but look at what's been going on w/various Patriots players in the last two years and imagine the Sox dealing with it in the same way.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=34552

There's a fascinating thread going on SOSH right now regarding the way every single Sox superstar since Fisk gets mercilessly turfed out of town - this isn't unique to Manny, but the current ownership's really made a point of exacerbating these kinds of situations.

govern yourself accordingly, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Manny's not an asshole, he just doesn't take baseball that seriously. He also happens to be really, really good at it. I think that gets under the skin of "baseball people".

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link

esp. failed jocks like the chb.

chicago kevin, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 18:09 (fifteen years ago) link

what do you mean by not take it seriously?

cankles, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 18:09 (fifteen years ago) link

as in, it's not an all-consuming thing in his life. it's a job.

chicago kevin, Wednesday, 30 July 2008 18:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Like late last year, when he didn't sweat it if the Red Sox didn't finish in 1st (I think that's what it was), and the BSM (& maybe the MSM too?) went into crisis mode.

David R., Wednesday, 30 July 2008 18:33 (fifteen years ago) link

o
m
g
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2008/07/ipt/1217477867.jpg

J0rdan S., Thursday, 31 July 2008 04:56 (fifteen years ago) link

^^screenplay idea

gr8080, Thursday, 31 July 2008 07:26 (fifteen years ago) link

"The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me," Ramirez said. "During my years here I've seen how they have mistreated other great players when they didn't want them to try to turn the fans against them.

"The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy. I love Boston fans, but the Red Sox don't deserve me. I'm not talking about money. Mental peace has no price and I don't have peace here."

Andy K, Thursday, 31 July 2008 10:11 (fifteen years ago) link

If this deal goes down, some of my blame goes to Tito for initially casting doubt on Manny's knee injury to reporters.

G00blar, Thursday, 31 July 2008 10:36 (fifteen years ago) link

I WOULD LIKE THE RED SOX TO STOP LOSING, THX

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 31 July 2008 11:08 (fifteen years ago) link

http://i37.tinypic.com/ri9sed.jpg

gr8080, Thursday, 31 July 2008 11:31 (fifteen years ago) link

http://i38.tinypic.com/w1dvk4.jpg

gr8080, Thursday, 31 July 2008 11:35 (fifteen years ago) link

u can make your own

gr8080, Thursday, 31 July 2008 11:35 (fifteen years ago) link

http://i36.tinypic.com/2vj68mf.jpg

gr8080, Thursday, 31 July 2008 11:38 (fifteen years ago) link

what's the original sign say

cankles, Thursday, 31 July 2008 15:19 (fifteen years ago) link

don't trade manny

mizzell, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:34 (fifteen years ago) link

Fuck fuck fuck if this entire day goes down and Manny is not traded and the Sox make no other deals I'm going to be furious.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:58 (fifteen years ago) link

deja vu

bnw, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:05 (fifteen years ago) link

gammons says:

"A source close to the three-way negotiations involving Manny Ramirez says the deal is close to dead. Florida has reportedly asked Boston for a cash outlay beyond the $7M to cover Ramirez's contract, in addition to two prospects. That essentially would add up to the Red Sox trading Ramirez, $9M and two prospects for Jason Bay."

chicago kevin, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:16 (fifteen years ago) link

Loria, you old cheap-as-fuck so and so!

David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Dear rumor mongerers: please do not tease me w/ the thoughts of the Dodgers being dumb enough to cut bait on Matt Kemp for Manny being 36 years old. They can't be THAT dumb.

David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Loria, you old cheap-as-fuck so and so!

Them Leroy Neiman lithographs aren't going to buy themselves.

govern yourself accordingly, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:40 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't understand why the Sox would even trade Manny right now. declining to pick up his 09 option, sure, but you're a team with a great shot at the World Series in a divison where a single win could be the difference between the playoffs and staying home. it'd be nice to get value for Manny before he leaves, but there's no question that the 2008 red sox are worse off without him, right?

cankles, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:52 (fifteen years ago) link

^^^

G00blar, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:55 (fifteen years ago) link

at a certain point a guy becomes too big of a distraction to the team. look at nomar in '04. most popular red sox of the last 40 years and they wouldn't have won with him.

chicago kevin, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:56 (fifteen years ago) link

who's the last great player to leave the Sox on good terms? Yaz?

Garrett Martin, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:57 (fifteen years ago) link

Jody Reed

G00blar, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:58 (fifteen years ago) link

apparently to approve a trade, Manny will get the Sox to drop the two option years so he'll definitely be a free agent after the season.

G00blar, Thursday, 31 July 2008 18:00 (fifteen years ago) link

Damn you G00b it was Ellis Burks and you know it

David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 18:00 (fifteen years ago) link

the d-bag on the distraction:

Rehabbing Red Sox righthander Curt Schilling this morning said he thought the Manny Ramirez situation has affected the team and keeping him in Boston for the stretch run could present a problem.

"At the end of the day you're taking the field with a guy who doesn't want to play with you, doesn't want to be there, doesn't want to ... obviously effort-wise is just not there and that's disheartening and disappointing," Schilling said during his weekly appearance on Boston sports radio WEEI's Dennis and Callahan program.

Does he think it's time for Manny to go?

"Would I be the only guy in the New England area that said no if I did?" Schilling replied to the question. "I think I'm probably with the consensus. It's very obvious from anything you see or hear he doesn't want to be here. And anytime that there's a piece of the equation you have a problem, and then not trading and leaving him here is a problem because you don't know what you're going to get."

Schilling was asked if he was insulted by Manny's "the Red Sox don't deserve a player like me" comment.

"I was here for the end of both Pedro (Martinez) and Nomar's (Garciaparra} situation and I'm not sure how there's any parallels there," Schilling said. "... I've always felt the organization extended a lot of courtesy Manny's way and I know Terry (Francona) as a manager, like with everybody else he went that extra mile for Manny. It's disappointing to see that not get recognized, but that happens.

"The hard part for me was this (situation with Manny) derailed into a train wreck so quick, so fast, and so oddly. You had the Buddah Zen Master guy in spring training, reading and 'life is good, don't worry be happy' and it just looked like he was poised to have a monster season. Physically he worked his butt off. Obviously he wants to play longer. Anytime a guy like that is motivated, you get excited. You get a chance to see some stuff...

"We had a conversation a little while back, talking about what he should do and how things are gonna go and there's just really not a reason from a business standpoint for the Red Sox to do anything right now. There really wouldn't... Why would they? Given your age and the contract situations. Why would they not just kind of wait and see how things played out. I think there was, maybe there's some feeling on his part that if he did what he did last winter and he came out and had a monster first couple of months that they'd sit down and say 'OK we want to keep you here the next four years, let's get something done,' and it felt like to me that the second he realized that that was not an option, this just went straight downhill."

Could this situation have caused the Red Sox, losers of 4 of their last 5 on this homestand, to lose its focus?

"Absolutely, absolutely," Schilling said. "This is one of those things ... the trading deadline is always a weird time for everybody, no matter what team you play for but this ... when things are going on with Manny, the fact that Manny's locker was in the back, and not with the rest of the guys, ended up being a thing that worked because media wasn't hovering, there wasn't stuff going on, but it appears to me that he's moved out into the clubhouse now to try and make sure he gets his message broadcast and that's ... it's not fun.

"I would absolutely agree that it's affected this team. I don't question it. I've been around when it did before in '06. These are your teammates and it just makes it hard when every question, you're struggling in a 1-for-14 and grinding your (expletive) off at the plate and every question is about something that you have absolutely no control over..."

Schilling also said would give Jason Bay his No. 38 (and Bay's number with the Pirates) if Bay ends up joining the Red Sox in exchange for someone to give a five-figure donation to his charity, Curt's Pitch. "It pretty much can be had right now... yeah ...we'll work something out," Schilling said.

More quotes of note from Schilling:

# Will Manny be traded by 4 p.m. today?

“I don’t know… there’s always a part of some people that you want to see somebody not get what they want. You know?... Oh sure, (he’s going to win this showdown). Manny’s going to be a free agent no matter what next year. It doesn’t matter where you play… It’s unfortunate that someone who’s going to be considered one of the greatest hitters that ever lived, is going to just be one of the greatest hitters that ever lived.”

# Did Manny lose support of teammates after Jack McCormick incident?

“I don’t know. I don’t know how much support really is there. You’re talking about a very different man. Manny is, as we all know, one of the most talented right-handed hitters that’s ever played but I’m not sure it goes beyond that for a lot of us… the guy can hit and hit like nobody else ever could hit. I don’t know that there are a lot of guys… he has his moments when you sit and talk to him and he walks away and you go ‘wow, who is that guy?’ He’s got a soft heart at times but I never invested a whole lot there when the issues that I… the times that I had questions… problems, I talked to Manny, and we had our run-ins and there was a couple of times when I thought I was going to have a run-in and was told not to, but I don’t know about that losing [support from the] team. I don’t think there’s a lot invested there.”

# Have any teammates told Manny to knock it off?

“Recently I don’t know… I don’t know, I can’t answer that… I’ve had my moments, and that was both smiled upon and frowned upon when they happened in different times… the club is struggling enough where everyone is worrying about themselves. … This is not the first time a situation’s come up like this with Manny. There have questions in the past about things. So it’s not a Youkilis or a Pedroia thing (to sit down with Manny), neither one of those guys is that person. Mike Lowell, yeah I could absolutely see it. Jason (Varitek), yeah., but not a lot of guys are suited to be that person, or in a position to do that.”

# Does he wish that Terry Francona would do what Jimi Williams did to Pedro Martinez when the former Sox manager told Martinez he wouldn’t be starting when Pedro showed up late to the ballpark?

“I’m not so sure, well… I would tell you that something to that affect at different times has happened already. You guys didn’t know about it, but it’s happened. He’s already had a couple of times when I think (Francona’s) said, ‘That’s enough.” I think early on he did it a couple of times and was called on the carpet by other people for it, and then finally people understood what he was dealing with and came to his side a little bit more.”

# On Manny’s effort running up the first-base line on a ground ball behind third base during John Lackey’s no-hit bid on Tuesday night.

“I laugh at the fact that people are like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t believe that… on this night he didn’t…,” like that night was any different than any other night for him. .. It’s stunning to me that it just was OK I guess, the other day for things to go the way they went. It’s gonna be funny to watch all the people jump if Manny does get traded and things happen, how many people in the media area going to come out of the woodwork and say, ‘you players are idiots, you let him be like this for so long,’ and the media’s given him, for the mos part, every bit the free ride everybody else has... I thought it was telling the other night when someone asked about Manny's run down to first and I thought Terry's answer was something like, 'well, he does that a lot.' Think about that. That's someone saying, 'what do you think about this guy half-assing down the line and the manager saying, 'yeah, that happens a lot.' Again, things you kind of look at and go, 'What, we just move on?' Why is that the breaking point for people. Why after all this stuff in all the years, why is that like the breaking point?"

# Is Manny quirky or a distraction?

“..I’ve always wondered how we came to be OK with ‘… he’s just not gonna play hard today,’ and that was OK. We’ve come a long way, especially in this city as devoted and as much as the Red Sox mean to people, the fact that you could have a Dustin Pedroia, a Jason Varitek, someone who would bleed and literally play his nine breaths to make an out or get a hit or win a game, and have somebody at the other end of the spectrum from a committed standpoint, you know these players love the uniform, love the fans, and believe in Red Sox and what it means to be a part of this and then you have guys who really don’t give a (expletive).”

# Is there a better place for Manny to play than Boston?

“No, no… when you think about the history and think about the kid gloves that these fans have had through all of it, he’s always come out a hero and he’s got a chance… this is because he doesn’t have a four-year contract. That’s it… it really is. That’s his prerogative but that’s the only reason this has happened.”

# On Scott Boras’s involvement:

“I think absolutely he’s absolutely had a hand in this … I think he absolutely has a piece of this. Scott Boras stands to make zero dollars if the Red Sox pick up Manny’s options the next two years. Manny’s not 1- years from retirement, he’s maybe four obviously, that’s where he’s at. So does Scott Boras want to get a two year-deal for Manny or a four-year deal for Manny? At the end of the day it falls on the player because Manny’s an adult… I can’t fathom Scott hasn’t had some… you read his comments, he just has no ability to answer a question short, tactfully, and straightforward. It’s a 12 paragraph way to say 19 syllable words that you just can’t figure out what the hell he’s saying.”

# Schilling on Pedro Martinez:

“I enjoyed pitching with Pedro, but I watched Pedro for a year come and go as he pleased, and do whatever he pleased, from a schedule standpoint and to a point, All-Star break heading home and no one ever said a word… The things that Pedro said going out of town about Terry (Francona), that crushed me because of what I saw Tito do for him. Manny's the same way..."

chicago kevin, Thursday, 31 July 2008 18:01 (fifteen years ago) link

no, burks couldn't wait to leave. probably mike greenwell who couldn't wait to start racing stock cars in florida.

chicago kevin, Thursday, 31 July 2008 18:02 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't understand why the Marlins would even want Manny.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 31 July 2008 18:23 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't get that either since they're a pretty smart team in their own way. But fuck, to get this far down the path and then derail it? Are they getting kickbacks from the Yanks and Rays for stalling the Red Sox?

call all destroyer, Thursday, 31 July 2008 18:29 (fifteen years ago) link


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