i throw Mays in with those two.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 30 March 2017 15:58 (seven years ago) link
even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability. strength, speed, conditioning, nutritional regimens for the average player are just so far above what they were several decades ago
― k3vin k., Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:00 (seven years ago) link
going back to relative to his peers, here is a list of players trout, in his age-25 season, is likely to pass on the career WAR leaderboard this year:
sandy koufaxbernie williamsdavid wrightjoe mauerjustin verlandertorii hunterorlando cepedajason giambikirby puckettmark teixierajohan santanamickey cochranefred mcgriffenos slaughterjeff kentdavid ortizbill dickeylouis aparicojohnny damon
― k3vin k., Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:08 (seven years ago) link
comparing players across too many generations just kind of gets silly. it's hard to imagine how trout would do in the 30 and 40s, riding around in buses without air conditioning, playing in heavy wool uniforms, getting routinely beaned by gritty pitchers named "bean", etc
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:10 (seven years ago) link
xpost probably cano too
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:12 (seven years ago) link
xxxp that's true. IMO I think today's players would kick the asses of the 1950's all-star team. mostly because the majority of them are dead, ha ha. but seriously.
from 1989 to 2004, Bonds had one duffer of a season, in 1999 when he hurt his elbow (cuz of all the steroids! say the tabloids). even then he still slugged over 600 and put up 3.3 WAR. granted he wasn't transcendent every one of those years, but his peak with SF is beyond anything that Trout's done, even though I guess it's possible for Trout to kick it up another level, he's still so young. if he puts up 3 or 4 more 9-10 WAR seasons I think a lot of people will be saying just that. then again the conversation started with Pujols too, and we all know how that turned out.
― frogbs, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:13 (seven years ago) link
if you ignore era context, today's regulars are better athletes than yesteryear's greats, no doubt. xxp
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:14 (seven years ago) link
...merely an all time great at his position and first ballot HOFer lol xp
― ein Sexmonster (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:45 (seven years ago) link
well, yeah. Pujols is that great. But it seems like "three more seasons like this and he's in the conversation for the best ever" and his sudden decline coincided with each other.
― frogbs, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:46 (seven years ago) link
I'm also just being glib. Baseball! ^_^
― ein Sexmonster (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:53 (seven years ago) link
even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability.
Agree with the things you list after that, but wouldn't raw ability, because it's the most subjective/amorphous/unquantifiable of all those, be the least affected by era? Basically it exists in the realm of legend. To read about Bo Jackson the baseball player, his raw ability dwarfed every player before or since.
― clemenza, Friday, 31 March 2017 00:16 (seven years ago) link
maybe "raw ability" is too subjective. by that meant what i listed afterward: strength, speed, conditioning, etc (most importantly, coaching, year-round training) and how that translates to absolute ability
― k3vin k., Friday, 31 March 2017 00:39 (seven years ago) link
did it again. absolute ability = baseball skills
― k3vin k., Friday, 31 March 2017 00:41 (seven years ago) link
anyone see the Trout doc on MLBN?
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7417714/v1251990383/mike-trout-millville-to-mvp
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 17:41 (seven years ago) link
no but i will now
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:48 (seven years ago) link
i'm going to guess it's pretty boring
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:49 (seven years ago) link
trout apparently got the neck gene from his dad
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:59 (seven years ago) link
Dishes, laundry -- very difficult challenges he was forced to overcome.
― Andy K, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 02:59 (seven years ago) link
somewhere in the swamps of jersey
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 03:02 (seven years ago) link
already has regained his rightful place atop fWAR leaderboard
― k3vin k., Thursday, 13 April 2017 22:06 (seven years ago) link
a spot that should be called the Trout position henceforth.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 14 April 2017 03:39 (seven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C99gAnvU0AA6Sw8.jpg
― mookieproof, Friday, 21 April 2017 19:48 (seven years ago) link
byron buxton's career bWAR: 1.9
mike trout's career bWAR by the time he was byron buxton's current age: 28.7
― mookieproof, Monday, 24 April 2017 19:05 (seven years ago) link
mike trout's bWAR through 20 games this season: 1.9
― k3vin k., Monday, 24 April 2017 19:10 (seven years ago) link
on pace for 15 WAR? nice
― frogbs, Monday, 24 April 2017 19:20 (seven years ago) link
@jjcoop36Angels bWAR position players update: Mike Trout 2.7 bWAR. Rest of Angels position players combined -0.3 bWAR.
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 14:38 (seven years ago) link
somehow the angels are a .500 team
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 16 May 2017 14:54 (seven years ago) link
carrying the team on his neck
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 16 May 2017 15:10 (seven years ago) link
honestly not sure he's planning on slowing down this season. 2-2 with a HR, a double, and 2 walks today. up to 224 wRC+
― k3vin k., Sunday, 21 May 2017 18:54 (seven years ago) link
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-preposterous-mike-trout/
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 24 May 2017 15:13 (seven years ago) link
i don't see the point of starting a thread for the other Angels, but i missed that CJ Cron was optioned to AAA.
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/5/23/15679836/mike-trout-angels-offense
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 May 2017 19:48 (seven years ago) link
it's amazing they're a .500 team with that roster
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 24 May 2017 19:51 (seven years ago) link
surely the Scioscia Era is in its dusk
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 May 2017 20:02 (seven years ago) link
sprained his thumb stealing second today. i've had that kind of injury before and it does not go away easily. hoping he's not out too long
― k3vin k., Monday, 29 May 2017 02:19 (seven years ago) link
The only old timer baseball analysis I can get behind is that diving into a base hands-first is dumb
― Karl Malone, Monday, 29 May 2017 03:48 (seven years ago) link
sounds like he's going to be out 5-8 weeks. god dammit
― k3vin k., Monday, 29 May 2017 23:50 (seven years ago) link
daaaamn
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 06:54 (seven years ago) link
sheeit
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 12:07 (seven years ago) link
(Thumb): Trout had surgery to repair a torn UCL and a dorsal capsule in his left thumb but is ahead of schedule in his rehabilitation and is lining up to return prior to the All-Star break. (Updated June 13, 2017)
― k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 15:21 (seven years ago) link
*punches the air*
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:10 (seven years ago) link
still third in fWAR, sixth in bWAR
― mookieproof, Thursday, 22 June 2017 18:31 (seven years ago) link
i just want him to continue his streak of top 2 finishes in the MVP race.
― nomar, Thursday, 22 June 2017 20:26 (seven years ago) link
The situation is virtually identical to Kershaw last year: 149 innings, 2/3 of a season (guessing that's what Trout ends up playing), still finished third in WAR among pitchers and fifth in Cy Young voting. Normally I'd say top two would be extremely unlikely, but when you look at the leaders in WAR, there's lots of daylight. Give Judge one of the top two spots, then you've Betts (main competition), Altuve and Correa splitting votes, Garcia (possible), Hicks (no shot with Judge), and Simmons (no shot). So I could see that happening.
― clemenza, Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:15 (seven years ago) link
who is simmons? andrelton?
― k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:27 (seven years ago) link
Yeah. Besides the fact he's a teammate of Trout's, how far back do you have to go to find a top two finisher who's contribution is largely defensive? (Actual question...Ozzie finished second in 1987--has there been anyone since?) Mind you, according to WAR, Simmons' value is primarily offensive this year.
― clemenza, Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:44 (seven years ago) link
well a good chunk of that offensive value is just the positional adjustment; he's hitting roughly league average. don't think he's the kind of guy who can really string together an MVP season, trout or no
― k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 23:07 (seven years ago) link
Skimmed through all the MVP votes since '87, and I can't identify one defensive specialist who even finished in the Top Five of any MVP vote. Lots of great defenders, of course, but when Edmonds or I-Rod or Andruw Jones or Molina finished Top Five, it was in seasons where they had big years with the bat. When Lorenzo Cain finished third in 2015, and Lucroy finished high in 2014, they had great offensive years.
― clemenza, Thursday, 22 June 2017 23:39 (seven years ago) link
yeah simmons is a fun and super solid player, he's just not in that conversation
― k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 23:46 (seven years ago) link
rehabbing w/ Inland Empire!
http://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/05/angels-mike-trout-reports-no-pain-after-first-rehab-game-with-inland-empire/
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 July 2017 12:35 (seven years ago) link
26 today
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGoqEmSWAAQxNiM.jpg
― mookieproof, Monday, 7 August 2017 15:36 (seven years ago) link