Let's Bitch About Our Stupid, Annoying Baseball Team: the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

I love this thread title and I fully approve

We encourage all manner of airing-of-the-grievances in this thread.

As bad as general fan morale here was after the Berrios debacle, I think it's even worse now after a winter of smoke and mirrors and waiting at the altar. If they don't advance past the first round of the playoffs this year, I'd be inclined to take it apart and start over.

this was nice

I hate seeing people talk shit about Toronto like they know it. If you live in Toronto you know how special of a place it is and how passionate the people are #GeauxCanada #GeauxBlueJays 🇨🇦🇨🇦

— Kevin Gausman (@KevinGausman) December 11, 2023

I saw that, and it was. Was it maybe specifically a response to something Costas said?

I will say, that as tone-deaf as Costas's comment might have been in terms of singling out a city, what he said was basically true, right? I'm quite sure MLB and the networks were relieved Ohtani ended up in L.A. instead of here. That seems obvious.

i think it was in response to the american media, in the wake of the ohtani deal, suggesting 'no one would ever willingly sign in toronto'

That's definitely stupid. Past the tax/exchange issues, there is no issue. In the early '90s, everyone wanted to come here.

Kevin Gausman really my favourite Jay

The Jays aren't annoying, they simply don't have a coherent five year plan for competing with the stronger teams in the AL East. Their offense is underperforming and only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024. Everything's cool, folks!

only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024

The only position players, that is. They might be a 75-win team, but we'll have Gausman ready to go for G1 of the playoffs!

(nothing against Gausman, he's great)

we also have no real option at 3b right now. if we were the 2014 marlins, sure - we could shunt Biggio or Schnider or Espinal over there; or throw Orelvis Martinez or Addison Barger into the deep end as a major league 3b and see what happens. but if the jays want to be a competitive AL east team, they will need to replace that ~4 wins Chapman gave us every year (even with his hot/cold bat). i figured they would go for Candelario as an affordable/average option and then make up those wins elsewhere; but he signed with the reds pretty quickly. so it's either resign Chapman for a lot of money (not the worst option out there) - or trade for another 3b; but outside of - maybe - Kim on the Padres, who even wants to part with an above average 3b?!

ok. apparently in the presser this morning they said they are "comfortable" with our current options at 3b. 2014 marlins it is a guess. (unless this is an attempt to get Chapman to lower his asking)

apparently they are also "talking to" Yariel Rodriguez and Joc Pederson. I like Rodriguez as a 5th/swing man option - but not very excited about Pederson. would rather they go for Hoskins as a LF/1B/DH

Joc was…not good in SF. Entirely possible he turns it around in Toronto. It’s not even so much a performance thing, anyone can have a down year, but Andrew Baggarly called him out repeatedly for his attitude & lack of conditioning in The Athletic (Baggarly felt the Giants should have re-signed Belt).

👀 👀 👀

(via Baggs) pic.twitter.com/YM2vueikN5

— LOLKNBR (@LOLKNBR) September 26, 2023

Reminds me of a certain movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Q0kp8CMFQ

What am I missing here? Were the Jays 10th at the end of last year? (Maybe, but just barely.) It's not like they've gotten better.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-power-rankings-inaugural-2024-edition

Ross Atkins feels good about the team as is, everything's just fine.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/01/ross-atkins-discusses-current-state-of-blue-jays-roster.html#:~:text=Lineup%20regulars%20like%20George%20Springer,the%20loss%20of%20Chapman's%20bat.

Told you so! Everything is peachy.

Everyone who underperformed last year will bounce back and make up for the loss of Chapman, Ohtani, Aaron Judge, Judge Judy, and the Willie Mays cloning project that didn't pan out. When Vlad, Varsho, and Springer combine to hit 190 home runs next year you won't be disappointed!

Looking at that power ranking, I’m not sure which teams below the Jays I’d put above them? Fangraphs has the 2024 jays projected for 5th best war in baseball (yes that’s not the be-all end-all). Understand the future doesn’t look bright and I have no way near the eye test as many of you loyals, but as a follower from the distance the jays still seem like a team with a solid core that suffers from being in one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Was that post season appearance emblematic of the jays season, or were they just worn out? I understand the cynics would like to say option A, but a team that performs like that as a general trend doesn’t get 89 wins imo

I think that 89 wins was their true talent level, which is good enough to be a top 10 MLB but doesn't scream "WS contender". As far as being in one of the toughest divisions, that's been the excuse for 30 years, but the Rays figured out how to crack the Yanks/Red Sox glass ceiling, the Orioles have had good stretches outside of a dry spell in the early 2000's (and are really good now). The Jays need to stop functioning like a woe-is-us mid-market team, there are seven million people in the GTA and they're owned by a huge media conglomerate.

Find myself not caring all that much:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-guerrero-jr-unable-to-reach-deal-ahead-of-arbitration-deadline/

Didn't know there was Vlad Jr. Jr.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/report-mets-sign-16-year-old-prospect-vladi-miguel-guerrero/

Not a video game guy, but yeah, there might have been a better choice or two (or 40)

https://www.sportskeeda.com/baseball/news-you-re-kidding-me-so-many-better-options-fans-left-stunned-mlb-the-show-announces-vladimir-guerrero-jr-cover-athlete

I have no strong feeling towards Justin Turner one way or the other.

remember when they used to pick a different player for the canadian version of the show? i sure do. americans had miggy but we had dang ol' brett lawrie on the show 14 cover

Vlad wins:

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/vladimir-guerrero-jr-wins-record-19-9m-arbitration-hearing-against-toronto-blue-jays-1.2072949

xp ha, yeah! i assumed this was the Canadian cover. I don't think he's a bad pick at all though. Dude is primed to explode imo, if he can avoid the curse of The Show cover athlete (which i'll readily blame Vlad's underwhelming 24 season on)

I used to follow Vladdy on Instagram and he would play The Show after games so it’s nice to have someone who plays the game on the cover. He’s an attention-getting high profile player. It’s fine.

The Athletic gives Toronto's offseason a D

The most memorable part of the Blue Jays’ offseason was a tweet declaring who was decidedly NOT in Toronto (nor headed there, at the moment or eventually). Overall, the Jays’ winter suffered from expectations heightened by their pursuits of Shohei Ohtani or Juan Soto. In a vacuum, bringing back Kevin Kiermaier and bringing in Justin Turner are fine moves; in this vacuum, they leave a kind of … void.

Whereas Alek Manoah’s probably going to be better than his nightmarish 2023, Toronto shouldn’t count on 128 starts from the other four members of their likely rotation. Yariel Rodriguez, who excelled in Japan following a shift to the bullpen, could be a candidate for more innings here.

Offensively, Toronto is hunting rebounds across its lineup, especially from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. But whatever positive regressions accrue there may be mitigated by the loss of Matt Chapman at third, with the light-hitting Isiah Kiner-Falefa (.655 OPS over the last three seasons) slated for significant time on the infield. As with Tampa Bay, Toronto’s offseason feels underwhelmingly unimaginative. In an American League without a behemoth like the Dodgers, that’s a missed opportunity to position yourself nearer to the top.

It's too early to say, obviously. I've had a resentment rattling around in my head about how they've proven they have $600M to play with (yes, Ohtani is a special case), so go land a big one! every contract is going to be terrible, let's be real. it's wait-and-see rn tho

Another utility infielder:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-agree-to-deal-with-veteran-escobar-adding-versatile-infielder/

We're going to lead the league in...scrappiness.

scrappiness

This is very exciting: I now live about a 15-minute walk from Davis Schneider's uniform, in case I'm ever seized by a sudden urge to see it.

Davis Schneider’s uniform from his MLB debut is going to be featured in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame.
https://t.co/d3URSe64NY

— Jays Journal (@JaysJournal) February 17, 2024

Not exactly news, I know:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/hyun-jin-ryu-discussing-contract-with-kbos-hanwha-eagles.html

He’s signed now, I saw

Ah, wrong link--I meant to post about his signing. I don't know if he'll ever make it back--he pitched decently last year, but he's just shy of 37.

Might have decided to cash in and move close to home. Can’t blame him

FB teaser so I'd click: "Check out Alek Manoah's motto for 2024." I clicked, and his new motto is "They don't give out World Series trophies in Triple-A."

I was rooting for "Shut the fuck up."

did he confirm whether or not they give em out in Complex League? 😉

Alex Manoah 2024 ST debut:

IP: 1.2
H: 3
R: 4
ER: 4
BB: 1
K: 0
HRA: 0
XBHA: 2
HBP: Torkelson (by Manoah); Canha (by Manoah); Kelly, C (by Manoah)
ERA: 21.60
WHIP (inc. HBP): 4.20

Yikes. We may have a cerified case of Steve Blass Syndrome here.

Not surprised at all by this outcome

Incredible article about the Ohtani flight tracker and the Blue Jays. Half the roster was at Manoah’s wedding tracking the flight on the golf course!

ROMANO: “I remember where it was. We were sitting by the pool, actually. I was kind of on my phone. And then I was like, ‘NO WAYYYY.’ And then I was telling all the boys. … I was like, ‘Oh, he’s headed there. He’s got to be signing with us.’ So we were all really, really pumped up about it.”

But there were also 18 holes of golf to play. So Romano, Kevin Gausman, Tim Mayza and Danny Jansen hopped in their cart for one of the most distracted rounds of golf ever played.

GAUSMAN: “I remember somebody said, ‘How about this whole Ohtani thing?’ And I was, like, ‘What?’ What do you mean?’ But as we were playing golf, it just got crazier and crazier.”

THE ATHLETIC (TO JORDAN ROMANO): “What about the story where Kikuchi had an entire restaurant reserved for dinner with Ohtani that night? Did you try to confirm that? Did you even question whether Kikuchi would be in Toronto in December?”

ROMANO: “No, because I knew he was. So that made sense. Because I knew he was working out in Toronto. I even knew the place he was working out at. So that was just another piece that just felt like: This is getting real.”

TA: “And since you were at this wedding in Puerto Rico, there was no reason for you to think: ‘Why wouldn’t he have invited me to dinner?’”

ROMANO: “Exactly.”

But not all of Kikuchi’s teammates were content to assume it must be true. Like Bo Bichette, for instance. He went right to the source.

TA: “Did you ever ask anybody, like Ross Atkins or Mark Shapiro, if any of this was true? Or Kikuchi, who supposedly rented out that restaurant?”

BICHETTE: “I talked to Kikuchi a little bit about it, yeah. So I kind of knew that the rumors probably weren’t true when he texted me and said: ‘I don’t know what’s going on.’ I figured he would know.”

Been trying to formulate a joke related to Manoah's wedding; it would help if he were the one throwing the bouquet.

I can’t think of one either, so here’s a nice photo of the lads at the wedding reception
https://i.postimg.cc/3R71qX96/IMG-6144.jpg

Gausman, Manoah, Espinal, Romano; far left is Mike on my bowling team; far right, blanking out.

Danny Jansen?

Jansen

Vlad's birthday yesterday:

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/a-look-at-vladdys-career-accomplishments-as-he-turns-25

Their conclusion: "It's easy to forget how young Guerrero still is considering how long he's been around, but it's important to remember what he has done for this team and that his best years are still ahead of him."

My conclusion: "There's 2021, and then there's everything else."

To be fair, one day before Bryce Harper's 26th birthday, I would have summed up his career exactly the same--there was 2015, and then there was everything else. So I know there's lots of time to turn things around. Whether that happens or not--and if it does, whether or not it hpapens in Toronto--nobody knows.

Votto homers off Wheeler on the first pitch he sees as a Jay. Rolls ankle on a bat immediately afterwards, leaves game

No. The world will be on fire by then.

Geez, getting anything for Kiermaier at this stage is welcome, and the Jays got what looks to be at least a usable pitcher.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-trade-kevin-kiermaier-to-dodgers-for-lhp-ryan-yarbrough/

Their entire deadline was nuts. Getting anything for KK or Pearson was great. The return for Kuch was just stupendous and the other deals all were fair-to-good. Excited to have Clase and Loperfido as options in LF going forward and getting the team under the tax threshold is also great.

Someone gets a job, someone loses a job, the world turns.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/dodgers-designate-cavan-biggio-for-assignment/

I'm sure someone out there will scoop him up.

I'm a pretty positive guy but he uhhhh wasn't great in LA

-0.2 WAR with LA in 88 PA'S. Would have much preferred that playing time going to Outman, Vargas, another rookie. No hard feelings, but I don't see biggio finding "it" elsewhere. Happy to be proved wrong

Haven't read this yet, but the title's provocative, and I suspect it captures the way most Jays fans are feeling.

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/a-look-into-how-the-blue-jays-wasted-the-vlad-and-bo-era

(Of course, the problem may be much simpler: they're not actually "generational talents.")

the sons of MLB players march on... Will Wagner making his debut tonight!

... who i keep wanting to call "Will Bagner"

wow. not only is wagner 2/2 with a run and rbi (single and a double) - Leo Jiminez hit his first mlb home run!!

3/3!!!

Your new favourite player:

https://www.mlb.com/news/will-wagner-son-of-billy-wagner-debuts-with-blue-jays?t=mlb-debuts-coverage

Wagner became the fourth player in Blue Jays history to record at least three hits in his debut, joining J.P. Arencibia (2010), Pat Borders (1988) and Danny Ainge (1979).

Thought Davis Schneider would have been on the list.

Those are your three possible career paths, by the way: he might go on to coach Triple-A in Syracuse, he might be a World Series MVP, he might end up playing for the Boston Celtics.

I remember two things about Arencibia: his absolutely wild debut and his vile, vocal political beliefs

Underscored by his second wife: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomi_Lahren.

All I remember is pretty good power and couldn't hit his weight. (Technically not true: BRef lists him at 210 lb, and he maintained a lifetime average of .212.)

2-2, 2 doubles tonight!

He looked pretty good with the glove too

This unexpected turnaround is something to build on for next year, right, and can only be viewed as a good thing. Except...I just hope it doesn't fool the two yahoos at the top into thinking another winter of tinkering will be enough.

I threw away $100 on my Cy Young bet, but to this point in his career, Berrios has to be one of the most consistent starters in my lifetime. In nine seasons, his ERA has been between 3.52 and 4.00 in seven of them; he's won between 11 and 14 games in seven of them (he'll probably get to 15 this year); he's started between 25 and 32 games in seven of them (all except for his call-up year and the COVID season). Six seasons in Minnesota: 55-43, 4.08; Four seasons in Toronto: 41-32, 4.12.

Nickname: The Machine or La Maquina.

to be that jerk who takes him down a peg - 28 home runs allowed (1st), and an ERA/xERA of 3.79/4.97

i def never thought of him as an ace (like some people were saying when we extended him) - but as far as workhorse type pitchers go, the guy has given us all the competitive innings we could ask for (which makes the home run total bother me less).

yeah, he's just prone to meltdowns - very happy with this contract overall

The really stupid thing is that, instead of looking at how predictable he is--and remembering his nickname--I decided it was worth a hundred dollars to find out if he'd all of a sudden turn into Tom Seaver in his age-30 season.

Weirder things have happened - but I def wouldn’t have put money on that

I had to stop by the (Canadian) HOF for a minute today, and parked in the lot were two Blue Jay Irrigation trucks--there are five baseball diamonds there, so obviously they were doing some work. When I went inside, Scott, the guy who runs the hall, was there.

Me: "Blue Jay Irrigation--seriously?"
Scott: "Yes--and Joe Carter runs it. Not that one, a different Joe Carter."

Not quite, but still amazing. From their website:

In 1986 my father incorporated as Blue Jay Sprinkler Systems Inc. He dropped the landscape and lawn care and became strictly an irrigation company. My father was never one to back down from a challenge. I loved hearing the stories of his first golf install in the early 90’s. This involved him and his salesmen Joe Carter walking the parking lot of the golf course through skids upon skids of pipe stacked sky high...

https://bluejayirrigation.com/

Totally missed Bowden Francis's start yesterday...His last four starts:

4-0, 29 IP, 6 hits (6!), 32 K, 3 BB, 0.62. Is this for real? (I.e., has he turned some kind of corner?)

I am now tuning in just to watch him pitch. This is some Roy Halladay shit.

His WHIP over his last four starts is apparently an MLB record??

Record for 4 starts?

Took a look at Johnny Vander Meer's game log for 1938. His six starts from May 27 to June 15, including the two no-hitters: 6-0, 55 IP (all six were CG, one 10 innings), 17 hits, 35 BB, 24 K, 0.65 ERA. Different game, so the SO/BB ratio is ugly, but the rest, wow.

No doubt Gibson's got a few four-game stretches in his '68 log that were awesome.

Cy Francis won AL Pitcher of the Month yesterday...Saw a graphic that said he set a record for four consecutive starts with a 0.32 ERA. That doesn't make sense to me: Hershiser (59 IP) and Drysdale (58 IP) both had their long scoreless streaks.

Must have been a team record

It wasn't--it was Francis plus four others in the HOF or--Sale--close. The graphic said these were the five lowest in the modern era...maybe by "modern era" they meant this century.

I goofed: lowest WHIP, not ERA.

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/bowden-francis-blue-jays-best-uncovered-gem

now i'm debating going back to MLB:The Show so I can use that undoubtedly beautiful card on some fools

was at the game today and there was a guy behind me telling anyone with ears that he was Addison Barger's uncle; showing off his official batting practice pass with his name (Barger) on it.
did chat a little with him, he'd flown up from Seattle the day before and was *really* enjoying Toronto.

blue jay nation, i deliver news from the cardinals broadcast - jim edmonds just said the first interesting thing i can ever remember him saying. he said that vlad jr was hitting .383 since the all-star break. i double-checked, because jim edmonds is not to be trusted, and he was right! so i ask, "is vlad jr 'back', or maybe he never left?"

happy 500th rbi to him today

He's definitely back (for now), and the Jays are about to pay very dearly for the combination of not getting him locked down earlier and his impressive resurgence.

Berrios is now 16-9, 3.44. A Cy Young ballot only has 5 spots, and you can't make a case for him as one of the AL's five best pitchers, but if a ballot had the 10 spots and MVP ballot has, I think he'd finish in the Top 10. So my $100 bet maybe wasn't all that bad.

Vlad needs 9 hits in 7 games for 200; still has an outside shot at the batting title, but he'd probably need for Witt to go into free-fall.

only need 6 now and is only 7 points behind Witt!

Yeah, I messed that up. Sample scenario:

Vlad goes 11/22 (205/615), finishes with .333.
Witt goes 7/22 (213/639), finishes with .333.

That would be a dead heat. So: if Vlad can have a big finish, he won't need Witt to fall apart at all.

What’s going on here, George Springer

https://streamable.com/o24sf8

That's funny...He hasn't been down there a lot this year; he's just trying to familiarize himself with what a first baseman looks and feels like.

Blue Jays commentary is very knowledgeable - just watching some of last nights game on mlb.tv and selected the sportsnet stream and they were reeling off a load of info about Justin Slaten. I don’t think I’ve heard a single commentary team tell me about his strikeout to walk ratio before.

Jays fans are spoiled in that regard. the broadcast team is fantastic.

Also, the camera angles are so dynamic, you really get up close to players in the on deck circles